Doctor Who Series 6 part 2 - the ganger thread

[RustyBear]

Old thread's getting full, so here's a nice new acid-resistant one...

[ScatterChasse]

They've axed Confidential! I'm a bit miffed about that. I love it, it's like going behind the scenes. Especially when we get to see filming, or the script read-through, or the monsters being made

On weeks when the episode's not been great, I actually prefer Confidential to the episode!

[fartmeistergeneral]

Please someone tell me! I am a big DW fan, but impossibly thick. Can someone remind me of the back story with Mels? I do remember seeing her in a recent episode as Amy's friend (missed the start of the episode) and she immediately regenerated into River. Has Mels been in previous episodes??

Also (and this is where my thick-ness will become apparent) - when the Doctor travels backwards and forwards in time and meets River, why is she always Alex Kingston? River seems to have met the Doctor in various guises, but he always knows her as Alex K. Sure if I thought about it for 5 mins I could work it out, but my brain is hurting from reading this thread and realising the extent of all my shortcomings.

[AnyoneButLulu]

Mels was meant to have been the Pond's friend since childhood, but the only time she's ever been shown on TV was in Let's Kill Hitler (the episode you missed bits of).

She was shot by Nazis, regenerated into Alex K, murdered the Doctor with slow-acting poison, then repented and saved him by using all her remaining regenerations to reverse the effect. Hence she now has only one life, which she lives until the events of Silence in The Library / Forest Of The Dead when she dies bodily but is backed up to external hard drive.

[meditrina]

As Mels sent to live near Rory and Amy by the Silents, because they knew that one day the Doctor would turn up where they were?

[noeyedear]

I got the impression Melody had escaped the Silents by escaping the space suit when she was a little girl, then lived on the streets, looking for Amy and Rory , presumably regenerating several times, as she was in 1968 or something until finally regenerating into toddler Mels, when she found Rory and Amy. Madam Kovorian then found her as AK and put her in the new spacesuit and sent her on her original mission. Meditrina's explanation is much more sensible though!

[fartmeistergeneral]

Was she the little girl regenerating in an alley way?

[StetsonsAreCool]

I know I'm late to the thread, but I've finally got my internet back and just about caught up with what's happening (stupid moving house)

The Doctor who comes out of the toilet and River slaps - is that 'our' Doctor, who has just come out of the teselector? Maybe the 1100 year old Doctor wasn't, and it was just the teseslector aging him up, so he would have come out at normal age. And is River slapping him because she's really peeved at him making her kill him?

I think Mels regenerated to a toddler after she found Rory and Amy because she would have known that they were her parents (and a toddler would have a hard time making it over from America by herself)

One more thing... Maybe River knows the Doctor's name because she can read the Gallifrey-an on his crib? If she got the regenerating thing, maybe she can read the language too?

[fartmeistergeneral]

So did Rory and Amy have a baby, lose a baby (what did they think happened to her at that point?), and then gain a toddler (Mels regenerating back to a toddler?). Just don't get it, sorry! If Mels was Amy's friend, that can't be?? Did Mels regenerate into a girl and become friends with Amy knowing that Amy was her mother???

[fartmeistergeneral]

And was also confused as to why the Doctor said he was going to tell River his name but instead said 'look into my eye'. How did River know his name in the Library? Didn't she say then that he told her his name??

There should be a special thread Q&A for Doctor Who fans who just don't get bits of it!!

[SESthebrave]

I think.....

Amy and Rory had baby Melody
She was kidnapped
She escaped the astronaut suit
She lived on the streets and starved so regenerated into
Mels, who moved to be at school with and friends with Amy and Rory
In LKH, Mels regenerated into River Song

The only thing I don't understand is how baby Melody and Mels seemed to actually age. I've not seen this happen with any timelord. Is it possible that timelords do actually age for their first 40 years or so???

[StetsonsAreCool]

No, Rory and Amy had baby Melody stolen. Baby Melody was named after Amy and Rory's life long best friend. Baby Melody was brought to earth and raised in the orphanage in the second episode - where Amy saw a picture of herself with a baby - at some point in the 1960s.

Child Melody was imprisoned in the astronaut suit, but broke out of it when Amy shot at it in 1969.

Child Melody regenerated in the alley in New York.

At some point Melody regenerates into toddler Mels, by now she's in Leadworth and grows up with Amy and Rory, the three of them are best friends. And yes, I think Mels knew that they were her parents, which is why she gets Rory and Amy together as teenagers.

Mels doesn't do weddings, so she wasn't there when Amy and Rory got married, but turns up in the corn field when Amy and Rory do the crop circle. At this point, she is yet to become River Song, so tries to kill the doctor. Then she regenerates into River Song, and Amy has one of those moments as she works out that she named baby Melody after herself.

I'm pretty sure I understood that, but someone can correct me if I've missed anything, or cocked it up.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

SESthebrave, I've always assumed that Timelords age from birth to adulthood normally, and regenerate when the adult body becomes too old and damaged to continue. Of course their normal and our normal need not be that similar - we achieve adulthood in around 20 years, they could achieve it in 10 or 100. So baby Melody and child/adolescent Mels would age visibly.

What I don't understand though is how Mels got from the USA to the UK, and provided herself with parents.

[EricNorthmansMistress]

River is only part timelord, maybe she aged but in a non linear way? Because although AK was 40+ Mels was mid twenties - but she regenerated from a little girl to a toddler, so aged backwards. We don't know how many actual years River has lived for as she is a time traveller and doesn't age normally. But Timelords aren't born adults so they must age somehow.

[StetsonsAreCool]

Xposts there.

I think time lords do age, but the fact that they can regenerate means they can relive lives. Some of the timelords at the end of DT's series were really old-looking.

I mean, Matt Smith's Doctor definitely looks older than he did when he first appeared (human actor aside), they'd have a hard time covering up that sort of continuity thing in make up

[StetsonsAreCool]

Also, if Amy and Rory grew up in, what, the late 70s early 80s? That means that the child in 1969 would have been a teenager by the time A&R started primary school. I think she came from America to Britain as a teenager, then regenerated as a toddler in Leadworth (who got fostered/adopted after being seemingly abandoned) to grow up in A&R's timeline.

[StetsonsAreCool]

Clearly spending way too much time thinking about this

[EricNorthmansMistress]

No Amy and Rory are early twenties now, so must have been born in mid-late 80s. Remember Melody is a time traveller, she could have regenerated and travelled in time at the same time? I can't see how she could have grown up from that child in the 60s then gone back to a toddler in the 80s!

[RustyBear]

The Doctor who came out of the toilet is the 900 year old doctor, (because he said so) and he had the blue invitation sent by his later self. What isn't certain (well, one of the things that isn't certain ) is when those 200 years passed -presumably (there's that word again!) between him dropping off Amy and Rory and getting into the Teselecta. This of course, would seem to indicate that Time Lords don't age, or not noticeably, over the course of a couple of centuries ; though the First Doctor did appear pretty old....

[StetsonsAreCool]

I'm obviously refusing to accept my own age - I had them pegged at late twenties like me ignoring 30th birthday looming

I didn't think Melody was a time traveller until she became River Song and had met/married/studied/killed the Doctor. The Doctor can regenerate to a younger version though. MS is the youngest isn't he?

[StetsonsAreCool]

Rusty - are we sure those 200 years did pass?

What we now know to be the teselector Doctor was 1100 years old. But the Doctor lies. Although, the 900 year old Doctor might have been lying too.

It hurts my head. Was rewatching the last ep at teatime, and I couldn't help think to myself that he was looking older. Although whether this was Matt Smith or make up is a whole other thing!

[BalloonSlayer]

I assumed it was the actor looking older.

I don't wish to turn this into a gossip thread but I happened upon a tabloid newspaper a few months ago which had a story about Matt Smith falling at home and hurting himself (he is notoriously clumsy so nothing sinister in that). The article described him as "party loving Matt Smith" which I read with some dismay as I always thought that was tabloid code for something or other.

[RustyBear]

I think he was meant to look older - Amy said 'How come you are ageing' and he said it was because he was at the centre of the disturbance. At first I thought that was why said he was older, but then I realised that he said it before time froze; when he went back it was to the point where River was killing him.

I know Rule One is The Doctor lies, but I don't think he lies unless he has to and I have to say I can't see the point of that particular lie (from the Doctor's point of view, anyway; from Moffat's point of view, it was to point up the discrepancy)

[RustyBear]

Matt Smith is the youngest actor to play the Doctor (two years younger than Peter Davison when each started)
William Hartnell        8 January 1908       23 November 1963    55
Patrick Troughton      25 March 1920        29 October 1966         46
Jon Pertwee                  7 July 1919               3 January 1970          50
Tom Baker                    20 January 1934     8 June 1974                40
Peter Davison              13 April 1951            21 March 1981           29
Colin Baker                  8 June 1943              16 March 1984           40
Sylvester McCoy         20 August 1943         7 September 1987     44
Paul McGann             14 November 1959    27 May 1996              36
Chris Eccleston          16 February 1964      26 March 2005         41
David Tennant           18 April 1971             18 June 2005             34
Matt Smith                  28 October 1982       1 January 2010         27

[SoupDragon]

Perhaps he lied about his age in order to make it look like he didn't get shot any time soon.

[StetsonsAreCool]

And perhaps he was 200 years older on purpose so that the writers can put in extra adventures before he 'dies'.

But at least time lords can regenerate out of age (or the appearance of it) order. You're right, though, I'm overthinking it I always do that!