Do I let DD14 continue with her online 'friends'!?

[Wiseonce]

Used AI to summarise, apologies! It'a still very long so bear with me.

A few weeks ago we discovered DD14 had been secretly bypassing parental controls and using hidden devices/accounts to talk to a group of 'teenagers' she'd met online. We thought we had all devices locked down but she stole my old phone to bypass all controls. She considers them genuine friends and believes she has a 'girlfriend'. The major concern was that she'd shared a scary amount of real personal information with people she's never met — full name, DOB, phone number, town, school/family information, photos etc. She still believes they're definitely who they say they are. This is a girl who had to be told about Santa, tooth fairy etc at 11 and cried her eyes out, so shes very naive and trusting. There are lots of red flags with the chats- they tell her she's very mature, how to get around controls, say bad things about us and her siblings and started sexual chat early on. My DD is so naive she asked did they mean holding hands! Now she is the one sending the dirty messages as time has gone on.

We removed her phone/internet completely. Put new passwords on all devices in the house. Initially as punishment for stealing my phone but then to keep her safe when we came across all this other stuff. She was devastated and had a complete meltdown, which lasted weeks. but after a few weeks she's much happier, spending loads of time doing sport, seeing IRL friends and engaging with family again.
It's now time to start giving her phone back, as I realise a teen needs a phone but these people are also on WhatsApp and there are hundreds of messages waiting. I feel like as soon as she opens the phone she's going to be sucked straight back in again. We obviously can't prevent a determined teenager accessing strangers online forever, so we need to figure out what to do.

Would you initially lock the phone right down and gradually increase access, or give her more trust — e.g. WhatsApp/Spotify allowed provided she blocks/deletes everyone she doesn't know IRL, with occasional phone checks — and restrict it again if she breaks that trust? And what would you do about all the existing messages/contacts? Do I just let her keep her online friends? Do I delete/block the strangers?

I'm very lost and go back and forth about it. I wouldn't mind so much but she seems really obsessed. She behaved like a drug addict in withdrawal when we initially took them away. She ignores real life friends to speak to these online ones. She has screen savers of photos of them even though they have never met, she's talking about talking a gap year after school to travel to them. They are from a different country so she is literally learning their language every day, including on holiday so she can speak to them. She was on a school trip abroad and spent over 7 hours on the phone to them in 1 day instead of talking to the kids on the trip actually with her.... She even has entire photo albums of just pictures of the one she believes is/was her girlfriend and has drawn lots of photos of her. Maybe I'm old but I think it's bloody weird. And obsessive. She's never met these people!! I haven't said any of this to her face, I've been very neutral and just talked about risks and safety. But what do I do!? Please don't be judgemental I am trying my best and want to do his right so she's not sneaking around anymore. But equally they could just be online groomers!? They could be anyone!

She doesn't get her phone back, if she absolutely needs one she gets a brick. Shes's doing alright without this online group, interacting with RL friends, do everything you need to to stop her falling back into it.

She's 14 @Wiseonce , she's a child. Generations of us couldn't blink without permission at that age and survived. You are entitled to put firm boundaries to keep her safe and if you don't you will be failing her.

I agree, if she seems happier now I wouldn't give the access back yet, what good would come of it?

She doesn’t get the phone back.
A young person who’s been in my life for a long time ( so not my dd) started like this. We didn’t know until she was a touch older and her life is ruined. Failed a levels, socially isolated, no friends, wider family have walked away, porn addiction and allosrts of in appropriate material has been shared online. She’ll likely never lead a ‘normal’ life without continuous therapy.

if your dd doesn’t know these people it’s no phone. Check school emails too and when she’s calm beware. These people can send phones to postage lockers. They are not teenagers.

To be honest, there's a higher chance those are just equally lonely children than groomers or anything sinister. There are millions of kids who escape into the online world however it's obviously not a good idea for her to get involved with any youths you don't know more about. A lot of those contacts may also be children who are very isolated, have MH or SEN issues and spend 10+ hours online every day. They form tribes and often build parasocial relationships to compensate for connections they cannot find in real life. In the end it's harmless, but you need to help your daughter move away from that.

You mentioned "girlfriend" which seems to imply a romantic relationship. 14 is quite early to have a clear sexual orientation, especially as you mentioned she was also naive in many areas. Was this something you were already aware of from a much earlier age or could it be something that contributes to her struggles with real life socialising or possible bullying? All the issues surrounding queer identity probably need to be addressed before the topics of social media and phones.

I do actually believe they are teenagers. But I'm not happy with the level of obsession. She needs a phone when she goes back to school as they use Google classroom, and I need to be able to contact her when she's on her way to and from school or out with friends. It has been different and much easier to control when she's off school and with us all the time.

I had considered the brick option but it doesn't actually help- she has their phone numbers and they have hers. Any phone is an opportunity to contact them. She also goes to her dad's house at weekends and I can't control her there (her dad is useless with technology and in general really) She had a PC in her room which has been removed and is now downstairs and will only be used with supervision for homework.

My fear is I actually can't control it, even though I would love to take a hammer to get phone and never allow her one again.

Do not give her back a smart phone, brick only, delete all the stuff from them on her phone, in fact full factory reset and get rid of it and change her phone number. You also report to the police, these people are no joke and children have committed suicide under the influence of these nasty nasty humans.

Even if they’re teenagers if they’re encouraging her to share explicit images the police will want to know it is not legal. You need to scare her with this stuff. Perhaps look up on the information on the NSPCC they have advice on this sort of thing.

Yes she has said since primary school she has had crushes on girls. I'm not overly concerned about this and have said to her if that's how she feels thats how she feels, but also she is very young and may change her mind so to keep an open mind. She is obsessed with a female artist and the 'friends' have come from online fan based things. I do think online is a place for her to explore this side. Which again, in small doses alongside normal life I wouldn't mind. But it's more obsessive than that

No photos have been exchanged thankfully. But explicit messages obviously are not acceptable either

this

change her number at hte very least and get rid of the old phone. Check it every night and the phone stays in your room

time to be very strict - they are likely not teenagers!!!

Also I thought phones were being banned in schools going forwards so surely she won’t need it in the classroom.

A fourteen year old does not need a smartphone and clearly she isn’t mature enough for one. You need to parent and in this instance that is removing access to the phone.

I think this is all very simplistic. I would love nothing more than to get rid of the smartphone but 97% of kids her age have one. She is part of a school drama group- they use a WhatsApp group to sort rehersals, same with several sports and her abroad holiday- all WhatsApp groups. When they have a school project- they use Google classroom and set up WhatsApp groups to sort things out. It's how party invites go out etc etc. I am wary of cutting off he thinks to real life friends. schools do ban phones in school but I need her to have a phone for extra curricular activities as she needs to get public busses etc. Some of her real life friends also have these 'girls' phone numbers (and honestly I think my DD herself has them written down elsewhere probably) so even if I took away her phone and phone number, she would still be able to contact them eventually. We did temporarily buy her an old school MP3 player to replace her phone for listening to music but I'm not sure the brick phone equivalent works

Cutting off her links that should say

It is very normal for kids to make friends online, it’s literally the done thing now.

Just look at all of us, having conversations with complete strangers on this site.

Her talking to people online would not worry me but them being not who they say they are, the sexual chats and her giving out her personal data would worry me.

I made my DC watch the catfish series - we really enjoy it as a tv programme anyway but it just shows how sophisticated some scams can be.

It also shows how sometimes it’s someone from school etc and his would she feel if her chats were made public to all of her classmates.

It’s a difficult one because if you continue to be too strict, she will always be naive.
She some sort of freedom.

At the very minimum I would come down hard on sexual chats, photos/videos and sharing personal information.
Tell her that you’ll be regularly checking her messages (even if you don’t).

I always remember my DC got hacked on Roblox. They were devastated but it taught them a very good lesson.

Thank you for this. I am aware that lots of kids have friends online, it's just the way she is doing it that is so so unhealthy in my mind. Thank you. I will watch catfish with her, that's a great idea!! I also had in mind to watch some documentaries with her about online safety. I am so scared to give her back her phone, and I really do flipflop from she's never having a phone again to well it's quite common in her friend group to have online friends and I just need her to reign it in- no sex chat, no pictures or personal details etc with lots of control but also being open with her about it. I don't know how to remove the weird obsessiveness of it though. Having someone you've never met as your screensaver in seductive poses, to me is just 10/10 WEIRD. She does socially struggle and I think these online people help her not feel lonely, which makes me sad for her

OK. She really needs to have a smartphone to Whatsapp for sports, drama club etc. She does it through you, you hold the phone and she doesn't have independent access to it. A pain for you, but safer.

Honestly OP, what has gone on really isn't OK. She broke trust to get into this situation and needs you to have a major reset around what's acceptable and safe.

If you do give her phone back, Remove all the online friends and block them from everything.
Shes only allowed people she knows in real life and check her phone regularly a few times a week at different times. Definitely come down to charge over night.
Google classroom could be used on a desktop couldn’t it ? Then just have what’s app but only school drama groups.
It’s a minefield!

I regret that most of my teenage friendships were online (about 10 years ago). At the time it seemed the perfect situation as I struggled with connecting with people at school due to being so self conscious. Those friendships (and 'romantic' relationships at points) were really intense, they formed too fast and due to being by a screen we shared things that were too much for teenagers to deal with. I would have hated my parents for taking away these friends at the time, but looking back I don't think I would have fallen into self harming if they had. I had friends at school but I cut them all off thinking that my friends online were more real due to have a complete emotional dependence on them. I still have some of these online friends now but none of us think that how we acted as teenagers was good or healthy. I do think my communication as an adult is still impaired from focussing on my online friends as a teenager.

Ok so if she has to have the phone, then you check it every single night, plus as pp has said she doesn’t get to use it unsupervised at home, she can check it in your presence. She has proven she is not mature enough to handle the demands it places on her. You have to be brutal, she will survive not having ready access to it. Plus I’d be giving her friends parents a heads up that their children are in contact with people pushing explicit sexual behaviour. You don’t know they are other teenagers, better safe than sorry. They could easily be AI generated images.

She gets a brick phone with a new number. She gives it to you when she’s back from school. Her original smartphone you monitor and check for WhatsApp arrangements. Contact her school and let them know she no longer has access to a smartphone because of some concerning online behaviour and to provide her with alternatives to Google classroom.

And FFS to the school for using something that requires a bloody smart phone. SMH.

Change her number would be my first thought.

Also Google classroom can be done from a pc/ laptop/ desktop. She doesn’t need a phone for it.

Her number can be changed but thanks to meta these girls appear to be everywhere- on Xbox, on earbuds, Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, Snapchat etc. I can prevent her accessing these here but she spends the weekend at her dad's every week. I had every parental control imaginable on and she has managed to become so emotionally invested in these people I have just been in her room and she is studying the language they speak. 4 weeks after removing all access to them .... It's a nightmare

Please don't be naïve. It's highly likely that not all of these people are teenagers. I am a teacher and have heard so many stories. I also have two friends with DC who have been impacted - one was blackmailed and did eventually breakdown and tell mum, the other didn't and chose to kill themselves instead of letting down their parents. Both started with friendships, explicit messages and then later on photos - instant the photos were sent came the blackmailing. Basically if you don't pay me X I will send photos to Y (they have contact details from social media and what they had been told).
Please back up what your DD will be being told at school.
Be the adult she needs you to be.