My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

You don't have to provide loads of kit for every new hobby, though! You seem to think that you must keep up with the Joneses..... absolutely not. As long as your son is housed, fed, clothed and educated then he has everything he needs. All the other stuff is just luxury items, which he doesn't respect. If you have spare funds, either invest it for him for his future use, or spend it on getting some private psychological support (if you feel he needs it). I'd also dial down the spending on your daughter, or the same issues will arise with her in a few years' time.

I disagree with the consensus here that he needs either a) tough love or b) uber emtional chit chats and some kind of mental health diagnosis.

I think he needs goals, aspirations, motivation that completely counter the culture he is immersed in, where status is about material possessions and treating parents like crap. Hence my suggestion of the armed forces. I would even argue he needs to leave school at 16. Currently, he will be aware that teachers and parents may care for him, but they do not like him or respect him. He wants status. Give him a better route to that status.

Don’t listen to posters telling you that it’s your fault. I raised two boys. One was no bother, the other was just like your DS. He wasn’t ‘bad’ in terms of hanging round the streets or drinking or taking drugs. He was just sullen, rude, disrespectful, and a massive fucking entitled brat. We’d always been so very close, and seemingly overnight i couldn’t stand being around him. It was unbearable and I tried every approach to remedy it.

Eventually he just grew out of it. He was about 18. I don’t know if it’s linked but I suspect it was around the time he got his first serious girlfriend and lost his virginity. I think teen boys have all these raging hormones that they can’t get under control.

Anyway, years later we look back and he regularly jokes about what a miserable little shit he was, and thanks me for not killing him in his sleep. He also recognises everything that we did for him as a child and he is very grateful. We are extremely close now. He’s kind, gentle, sensitive, and really thoughtful - the opposite of his teen self.

Hang in there, it really does get better! In the meantime grey rock the shit out of the situation. Try and let it wash over you as much as you can.

Sounds like these lovely wonderful friends that you have known since they were 5 are all spoilt, snobby little shits, who all compete with eachother and he is desperate to keep up with his rich peer group?
Fuck that. 😠 😡 😤

He needs to reconnect with his dad (your said that you and him were close, but not him and his father) and spend time doing something together (sport/ footy/ guitar/fishing/ building project) and also having a bit more fucking respect and some humility wouldn't go amiss.

My younger brother turned into a sulky moody fucker for a little while. He had grandiose ideas above his station, and thought all his family members were beneath him. Mum and dad remained with boundaries and didn't pander. They did a verbal contract and said if you want expensive items, then we will go halves, with you, so you will have get a part time job. 💡
If you want pocket money, you will help around the house and do your homework.
He did.
He tried harder at school and they could see where he needed support with studies etc and told school. 🙌
He would work and pay half towards his new expensive trainers and trips out. It taught him about the value of hard work and it paid off. 💰
He said he felt respected and valued, as he was always busy with school, a part time job and footy practise, and he was a happier lad for it.

He grew out of being a little twat.
He even apologised when he was older, for being such a moody snobby little twat. 😆

Favours (lifts) and rewards (hair cuts / pocket money) come AFTER he has done chores etc.
No chore = no favours/ rewards
See if he needs support with school /homework (tutor maybe?) etc.
Get him and hubby doing some bonding.

I hope you and your husband can sort it out with your son 💕

Sympathies op. Stop everything except basics. Get transactional i.e. lifts for chores or decent attitude. Try to just repeat your request without discusion etc, just keep repeating .its called the broken record technique...not getting drawn in, not getting derailed. Even if he ignores your request,which after 4/5 repeats should work, you have a technique to try. Remove items on bad behaviour i.e. tv/games in bedroom. Removing bedroom door is also valuable to teach that priviledges are earned. Read Assertive parenting by leon cantor. When you all decide to not get draw in to discussing,bargaining, etc you just turn away and do something else, go into another room. If all 3 of you do this you will feel better and he may tantrum but as you calmly change room you are not involved in his tantrum. If he behaves poorly at school then work with them. You are far too nice people and thats why his strong character runs over you all. My sympathies, look up techniques all of you stick with the broken record technique. Background in teenager behaviour management here. He will only change when he decides to. Meanwhile know youre doing your best, others are in this boat too and its rough but he will grow up. EBD [emotional bahaviour disorder) school (rare but good) is an extreme answer. Something may be at the root of this but you may never know.

Exactly. If OP has 1k to blow on presents and 2k to blow on a bike, that could have been spent more productively on private psychiatric assessment and treatment.

He knows you don’t like him. Children want and need attention, stability, and clear rules. (as opposed to presents etc) If he only gets attention for behaving badly then he will continue to do that. You need to be praising him for even doing basic things he should be doing till it is engrained in him that only positive behaviour elicits a response. Rewards like lifts and pocket money should only be given for good behaviour.

The teenaged brain sheds lots of information it has learned hence why it is such a challenging time coupled with hormones. Teens have to relearn emotional regulation etc Your DD is only just entering this stage and may well become as challenging as her brother is you give up on parenting him.

yes. This. However, I would counter that most young men grow out of it, but not all. While the son is like this, he is vulnerable. Some young men do spiral out of control. Rules and routines are key.

These 'lovely' friends sound far from it. Just because young lads aren't causing trouble as in drinking, drugs etc and are from 'nice' middle class families doesn't mean they ard not a 'bad influence' or the wrong sort of friends for a child with your child's characteristics OP. Frankly, they sound a bunch of absolute arseholes and are amplifying your sons poor values. I'd take your working class background or a bit of normal teenage carry on any day of the week over this awful carry on. That said, you can't separate him from them but you could try and amplify other influences - a part time job, a hobby away from these clowns, something more grounded. I sympathise with you OP but I have to say I can never understand the attitude of some people from working class backgrounds wanting to give their children everything they never had. In doing so they create a gulf between them and their child, end up trapped in a materialistic machine and often skip the 'effort-reward' bit which worked on them when it comes to their children. I had very little growing up but was raised to be decent, hard working, engaged with the world and Community minded. That's what I try to give my children, not stuff.

I agree.

You made the mistake of thinking keeping up with the Joneses was an important part of yours and your son’s lives. It wasn’t. It was the least important thing you could have given brain space to.

I remember year’s ago my ex buying our son a bike. Great I thought until I found out it cost £700 (about £1k today). I was furious. He could well afford it but to me it was just instinctively wrong. My ex had (still has probably) a horrible habit of putting personal/emotional value on expensive things.

You're allowing a 15 year old to rule the house. Sorry OP, even though some kids are bloody difficult to parent, that's what you've got to do. Stop money, gifts, lifts. Children do well to learn how to earn things. So if there is a chore he will not do? No reward. If he gets angry, lashes out, he has to go sit in his room. No freedom. Yeah, will kick off big time and this is where it gets hard. Persistence though with this as well as allowing him to talk to you about it all when he is calm. Could be a month or two of hell on earth before the penny starts to drop with him.

Also, if dad can afford £1k on presents, I would see if you are able to take him to a therapist. If it's not down to being a spoiled little rotter, there may be something else going on that he's not telling you about. I suspect that because his sister is ok and you probably treated them the same growing up, there may be an issue here somewhere.

I would also check about drugs, what he's doing when he's out with his friends and what sort of people his friends are. One of my brothers was an absolute horror around the age of 17, and it was drug use. Sadly parents couldn't handle it, didn't know what to do and he ended up on harder stuff down the line and removed from the house and the family when he was around 20 years old. My brother told me years later when we got back in touch that his old boss had tried to abuse him when he worked his Saturday job as a teen. I wonder if this was the start of things doing downhill.

I feel as though you have just explained my son. My son is full spectrum ADHD and has no regulation and has a couple other things mentally going on, he is also a shovonist. Grew up in a house of all girls as he was the only boy for 12yrs and without sounding harsh he is a pig. As soon as he walks in the house he has to put his hands on someone, shit stir someone, thinks its hilarious to make fun of his sisters, calls them fat and ugly, doesnt properly do his chores, doesnt help anyone even when asked, if he isn't medicated he will smash up my house in a full blown tantrum on a daily basis, he essentially an emotional abuser and this is happiness for him. He cant handle emotions and playing video games can set him off. Every word out of his mouth is can I have, can you do, can you take me. Because of this he now gets nothing from us but his basics and il only take him to one of his friends house as it gives us a break. We give him loads of hobbies to keep him off the games. We renovated a caravan and put it out the back for him to live in and we let him build himself a deck and roof. He is only allowed inside to use the bathroom or to eat, he isnt allowed in the house for long periods of time because he is harmful and nasty and this makes him happy. He is in the middle of getting a job so he can pay for the things he wants and work for what he wants because I wont provide it for him unless its a necessity. Once we get him to graduate we will be organising share housing to rent so that he is out of our home. I love him to bits and while he is under our roof il work hard to make sure he is provided with a good future but he is making very hard. Its sad that he likes to be this way and we all have had to put up with it. He has grown up in a loving, caring, supportive, stable household but it didn't make a difference. Non of my other kids are anything like this and unfortunely its something with his own personality.. hes 16yr old and its only gotten worse as he has gotten older. He is fully medicated and I fought for the rights over his medical decisons while he is under my roof so he has to be medicated or he cant stay here. Its sad that this is how life is but its reality for some households . Unless a parent is physically going through it, they will never understand and will always blame the parents even when you did everything right.

I think we see the impact of overuse of diagnosis and MH issues in our society. He is a teenager, I behaved like this at points as a teen myself - what does 'anxiety' mean in this context?

I think this is actually quite a significant issue in our generations parenting and yes it does cause anxiety.

We as a generation would not really have had our emotional needs cared for and there was very high standards for our behaviour, the pendulum has swung and I think we over care for this generations emotions and under-expect from their behaviour. That makes this generation pretty significantly under skilled which they start realising in the teenage years and that makes them anxious and sometimes resentful.

If they have a personality traits that copes with that anxiety pretty toxically in relation to others then you get the situation the OP is experiencing.

@Wherehaveigonewrong29384

I'm a retired secondary school teacher. Teenagers can be awful at 15 and delightful at 17. Good luck.

Yes, entitled, arrogant teenagers with plenty of disposable income? It's trouble.

Sounds as if he might need better friends.

It sounds as if you spent 2k on a bike because he told you that his friends were laughing at him.

I mean honestly more fool you.

His attitude towards the bike just sums it all up doesn't it?

Why wasn't he grateful?

Why just so careless with it?

He doesn't have to take any responsibility for anything does he?

I haven’t read the other replies but I do feel for you. Mine are young with small age gaps so I am dreading the teenage years. Could you maybe sit him down and have him self reflect on his attitude and behaviour? Ask him what would make him happy and enjoy being at home. What would make everyone at home be happier? If his answer is completely self centred and selfish then it may make him see more clearly that he is being unreasonable, entitled and spoiled. It doesn’t need to be an argument. You can tell him you don’t mind treating him to his wants but only as a reward for chores, hard work at school and respect and manners. You’re reluctant to treat him to his wants with his current attitude and behaviour. That’s life. And will set him up for his future. Sit down and try to come to an agreement. You can show him how to use the washing machine so he feels more independent. He can cook one night of the week. Take out the rubbish etc. You all live in the house. You all help maintain the house. That’s fair. It isn’t fair to leave it all to you or solely the parents. I say all of this like it’s that simple. I understand it isn’t. I’ve started this with my young children and thankfully at the moment their little chores are getting done. I’m hoping this is setting a habit for them. You need to stand firm here and absolutely do not tolerate disrespect from him. He will soon change if you’re consistent. He is rude and disrespectful. Next time he asks for money a simple ‘’no, I don’t reward that behaviour and attitude. I will consider it next week based on your behaviour and attitude this coming week’ ‘. Leave it at that. Let him have his tantrum. Stand firm. And then repeat the cycle the following week. Good luck OP. It’ll feel cruel but something has to give.

There’s a thing about the more horrible teenagers are the more loving you have to be and I think it’s true. That doesn’t mean throwing money at them or comparing them to others but getting to the detail and being on their side. Your boy sounds really unhappy and probably not very loved at the moment. Cornered with the only option to push away.
Have you tried getting him beside you in the car and driving, make up an errand say you really really need his help, value his opinion on picking something out whatever. His choice of music, open questions, get to the detail of it all.
The aspect of this which concerns me most is the school. Get to the detail. School/education is a non negotiable and if he wants good things in life for himself as an adult he needs to be making the most of it. What are his favourite subjects? What’s changed about teachers, sets he’s in? What are the positives here. Does he need extra support for particular subjects?
He sounds so unhappy. You sound angry, exasperated because he’s not meeting your expectations. Set that aside just try to get him to see you and his dad as other humans. Tell him you’re pissed off with him being a lazy arse in the house because you’re tired and busy and want him to be a capable responsible human. Other parents may want to keep their kids as babies but you want more for him.

Discuss wanting him to have a set allowance for going out and paying for clothes etc other than the basics so he doesn’t have to ask for stuff. Tell him he needs to step up as you’re not sure
he could manage it. Get him to come up with solutions. Taking it in turns to do the dishwasher, stick a load in the washing machine, do stuff for his family?
Get him involved in planning something for Christmas. Table presents, cooking, Tell him how much he’s loved and needed to be part of things.
Generally I think you should shift your thinking about his mates that you approve of so much. They may come from ‘good’ families, does that mean the high earners you aspire to mix with? Good friends don’t pick on each other for not having the right bike. Good parents don’t breed spoilt brats. Are they bullying him at school? What happens if the lads come to yours for a simple film, pizza and games? Who are his other friends?

A grand on Christmas presents for each child? 😲

Is there anywhere he could get a part time job? Maybe that would ground him into the real world and make him behave in a more mature way.

There’d be no lifts, expensive phone contracts from me for some teen who treated me like something wipe their shoe on.

You keep and confiscate it, obviously.

When he said he would report you to school for neglect because you wouldn't do his washing, did you laugh and say "crack on" or did you get scared and start doing his washing again? Because if the latter the reason he's being vile is because it works.

He's found your limits and he's pushing them to get what he wants. You need to stop giving in to his demands, even if it gets worse for a while.

Stop throwing money at him.
For goodness sake.
Stop lifts.
Stop any money.
Stop his phone package.

Your son is abusing the house.
Your poor daughter bearing witness to this.
She will be gone asap because of this.
Stop allowing yourself to be manipulated by a child.
Why would you engage in trying to keep up?
Down tools completely.
No money, no laundry.
Any aggression from him, contact the police.
He thinks he rules the house because you are allowing him to.

Threats to leave?
Tell him to head off.
His behaviour will not improve for as long as you are all cowering trying to appease him.

Any hint of aggression, contact the police to remove him.

He needs a dose of reality.
Throwing money at him, paying thousands on bikes? Madness and thankless.

He is anxious because, as pp have said, you have over cared for him, and had low expectations. Coming up against teachers with high expectations is leading to conflict, and continuous under achievement.
Those friends aren't lovely. At all.
Ask if there is a Learning Support member of staff who can mentor him and support him in school.
You have allowed disrespect and rudeness to be normalised, so perhaps pay for some family counselling to unpick that.

I love this post. Great idea to go halves - we had the same approach at home it worked well.

OP I haven’t read every post but thinking of people I know who were absolute twattish teens I’d say at least one of two common factors:

• Dyslexia/undiagnosed difficulties at school that weren’t supported but made school very difficult (literally)
• Drugs - if his friends are loaded I wouldn’t be surprised for one millisecond if they are recreational cocaine users for example. I never really knew this was a thing with kids (weed yes) til I met rich teenagers.

Those might be some things to think about. When he’s out all hours where does he go? I bet you one or more of his friends has some kind of super private attic bedroom or den where they can get up to anything.

A lot of these things sounds like some sort of narcissitic personality disorder right?