My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

I agree with those who are saying connection before consequences.

You need to find a way to reach him, to connect with him, before coming down hard and removing all privileges. It's not going to work if he feels that you're working against him, rather than with him.

I might be barking completely up the wrong tree, but I read this and undiagnosed ADHD came to mind. It doesn't always show up how you think it would in boys.

Can his dad take him on an activity weekend or something somewhere?

l thought undiagnosed adhd too. That level of anxiety….

He has even threatened to tell school we are neglecting him

Id be saying yep - get on and tell school that we no longer do your laundry for you.

My own daughter didn't like rules, was disrespectful and decided that going to live with her dad was the answer to her problems. Fortunately dad had been hands off and had no idea so he agreed... Oh my gosh I can remember the relief after the shock of her moving out.

You can love your children but you don't always like them.

The Christmas present I wouldn't worry about - give them the same amount of money value presents and enjoy the gratitude from your daughter.

I wouldn't be giving him money for other day to day stuff though, the only thing I would pay for would be his phone. if he wants money then its his choice to do as he is asked and then he gets what he wants, do the washing up anow and I will give you £10 etc, only ask him to do jobs when he wants money etc. or he can get a job and start saving to leave him when he leaves school. Lifts I would only give lifts to work

If he says why won't do something for me you say I don't want to due to the constant disrespect Or if he asks for somethings say I don't want to due to the constant disrespect

broken record technique works, keep repeating the same thing

but I want you to know I know the relief you mean when he is not there and I understand

He has you trained.

I don't know if after 15 years of jumping to his every whistle, then being unable to do that as his "needs" got more expensive and more onerous, it will be possible to retrain him.

But I hope for his sake and yours that you can.

Can you afford family therapy, I think that's what you need if you can get him there?

Yes, he's been spoiled unfortunately. And it takes a lot longer to undo the damage than it does to cause it in the first place. I know this. I've been there.

All you can do is hold firm. Keep the rules in place. No chores done? No lifts. No money. No treats. It will be hell. Probably for years.

You've got to look at it in the long term. You're aiming to turn him into a reasonable adult. There is no quick fix.

He will be a bit better once he's out of his teens, but he's got a severe case of entitlement which only adulthood, and facing the consequences of his choices and actions will fix. DO NOT bail him out as a young adult because it will undo all the retro fixing you're trying to do.

The reason I know this is because I have a mid 30s DC who we unintentionally spoiled and therefore suffered long-term with. They are pretty much OK now but it's taken sheer grit and determination to get there. Tantrums. Really awful times.

So what? He’ll still have dirty clothes unless he washes them. School know he’s a wee dick they may have to look into it if he says something but clearly you aren’t neglecting him so nothings going to come of it

He definitely has something undiagnosed but we have been through cahms multiple times and they won't accept him onto the diagnostic pathways. It is so frustrating.
I do understand that my son is obviously struggling , but you need to understand that we really have tried everything over the years to try and help.
We've altered our behavior, we have love bombed, praised, ignored bad, punished , not punished , forced him to join in, allowed him to opt out. We have stopped him going out, taken away the console , etc. We have involved professionals and the school. But he just gets worse and worse.
When this goes on for so long and you actually have to live with it it becomes unbearable. Its like living with an abusive parter that you can't separate from.
My husband was pushed to tears from him last night. I have never seen him cry.
The situation is now untenable. He seems to hate us but has no basis for that?

Please do not do this.

Every boarding school has a constituency of pupils 'sent away' to get them out of parents' hair. It never, ever works for anyone.

That’s exactly what I’m saying though. If he’s complaining about how it’s done, teach him then let him do it himself.

Don’t just react by refusing. Tell him why. Give him an alternative. Help him to understand. Kids don’t learn unless you explain and teach them!

That’s what I thought. My kids went to one but they were never bought expensive things because of peer pressure (I didn’t have the money anyway and ex paid the fees from abroad). If they had demanded something because their wealthy friends had them it would have been tough luck (thankfully was never an issue).

Are there things your dh and son could do together, just the two of them? A football match, a music gig? There is nothing worse for a child to know they are unliked by a parent even if their behaviour has contributed to it, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It is very, very unfair and damaging for either child to have an obvious favourite.

How much actual effort has your dh put in bonding with his son that doesn’t cost money?

Sounds very familiar. My DS has threatened to call the police if I don't cook him dinner- apparently I have a legal duty to do so 😆.

(For context: he is 15, he can cook, we have a kitchen full of ingredients, he called me a "fucking bitch". So I went on strike).

Stand your ground and ignore the amateur dramatics.

I went off the rails at this age, couldn't wait to leave home and get away from home. Nothing to do with money as we never had any and I was never spoiled in any way, just got to a point where I didn't want to be told what to do anymore, by school or home. It's a really weird time in fairness.

As soon as I left school it was make or break, I didn't want to carry on in education and was already working, so my mum MADE me get a full time job and it was the making of me in fairness, I didn't see my friends as much and I became a decent human being again.

I'd say stop trying to fight him, or change him, or make him do things, for your own sanity as a family, just get on with your own lives while doing the basics for him as parents (feed him, cloth him etc), he needs to come to the realisation by himself that he is being utterly awful and you don't want to spend time or do things for someone like that. His friends are 100% feeding this narrative as their parents obviously pay them to exist and he thinks he should be getting the same special treatment.

All lifts/money for nothing/pandering to him should stop.. you are rewarding him for being awful.. if he doesn't need you then he doesn't need your services, if he wants/needs favours or money he should EARN them, no argument or discussion, he either does stuff to contribute to the household or he doesn't, up to him, ignore the rest. he'll either come around eventually or he'll leave.

He has too much free time. If he wants expensive things he can get a proper job and earn them. Teach him how long it takes to earn a 2k bike. Preferably somewhere with a very firm boss who won't put up with his nonsense and he can learn to respect. It might even be the making of him. After school perhaps he could go on to an apprenticeship?

He needs life skills now, like budgeting and meal planning, because it sounds like he won't be getting some high flying job to support his preferred lifestyle without a big shock to the system.

Can you pay for a private diagnosis?

If he has needs that aren't being met and they're getting in the way of his school achievement, then his whole life could be affected by what happens in the next few years.

It's common for kids to be able to cope until the demands of school ramp up in teenage years. And then they can't cope... and the whole edifice comes crashing down.

That might be what you're seeing. Anxiety, emotional dysregulation, rejection sensitivity, lack of focus - these may all be indicators of a deeper issue.

Exactly this. Why on earth are you spending a ridiculous amount of money on someone who is behaving so appalling! You are rewarding this terrible behaviour and you wonder why! You are not handling the situation at all.

It sounds like you’re stuck in a bit of a negative cycle with it which is understandable especially when he’s behaving badly and then going on the defensive and failing to take accountability. You need a bit of a reset where somehow you’re able to speak to each other without blame and recriminations over past hurt and draw a fresh line in the sand. I don’t think punishments work very well for teens, their brains just make them feel everyone is against them and turn them against you harder and restricting money could be asking for trouble in the wrong circles as you don’t want them taking up the opportunity to to make some of their own in worrying ways.

We will carry on as we are keeping the boundaries and consequences consistent.
We will take advice from cahms on the 11th and ask them for more help.
We will not engage with him when he is shouting and swearing at us and making demands.
When he is being ok we will love bomb him .

His friends all come from middle class families who spoil them rotten. We all live in the same village. Its almost like they all compete against each other who can have the most expensive stuff first. Drives me mad .they change hobbies all the time then we have to provide all the items for that so he can join in with them, and give lifts , then after 6 months and thousands of pounds they move on to something else! Its exhausting!

@Wherehaveigonewrong29384 you mention upthread that you caved and bought him a £2k bike (which he now is careless with) because he said his friends were laughing at his old bike.
I think I remember you posting about that at the time? Although my recollection is that a £2K bike isn’t really in your budget, and the verdict on that thread is that his ‘friends’ aren’t nice at all, and he’d be better off mixing with people who aren’t focussed on brands etc.
Here, you say that his friends are ‘lovely’ - are they really?
Might (private) family therapy be something to consider maybe put next years gift budget towards it as I suspect there are some deep seated issues here that need dragging out & looking at.

Hahahaha, yeah. "All my friends agree that you're abusing me, they're all allowed to do xyz/ don't have to do chores, they all agree you're a weirdo and nobody likes you".

Oldest tricks in the teenage book. Ignore. Ignore . Ignore.

My DC is younger, autistic with elements of PDA and I can imagine his dad and him being like this when he is a teenager. Would he engage with a chat with you if you come from a perspective of being worried? Focus on one thing at a time and maybe get some counselling and support. I would also definitely contact school to discuss

Tell him to speak to them school then 😂

It can be very effective. Child goes into a neutral, calm environment surrounded by other students with rules and boundaries. Flashpoints at home are avoided, home is appreciated more.

Would you describe him as emotional and angry, or more unemotional and cold?

if it is the latter, look up support for kids with callous unemotional traits. This is an unusual personality that needs careful parenting. These kids learn best from small rewards not punishments and they can be motivated for long term benefits (eg doing well at school) if they feel it is in their own interests. But they don’t care about punishment and can be callous towards other people.

If this behaviour has been going on since he was very little then I would be considering getting him a psychiatric evaluation. I don’t believe small children behave a certain way because they want power / to manipulate you. They behave that way because it’s innate to them. The fact he is behaving the same at school as well as home is a red flag for me because. If his behaviour stemmed from you spoiling him, his behaviour at school would be different. Obviously the teachers don’t spoil him / make exceptions for him. There’s something else going on that he can’t control

I completely understand your frustration with your wee ingrate. I am you 9yrs down the line. I now have a lovely 24yr old man.
I was a sp and it was truly awful, I really can't believe we came out the other side. He was always fighting and so so angry all the time, hated me and his lovely older brother.
CAHMs was an utterly pointless excersize, a waste of our time.
Our turning point was when the police came after he was fighting at 15. I went to the station and spoke to wonderful police guy. He took him into the station, for about 40mins while i waited in the car, worried sick.
He showed him the cells, spoke about prison and told him this was his future as an adut if he continued on this path.
I will be forever grateful to that cop who took the time with my boy.
What i'm trying to say is that he will come out the other side.
when I hear my boys laughing and chatting with each other it makes my heart sing because 10yrs ago i could not have envisaged this scenario.
All you can do for now is be there, he is surging with hormones and finding his way.
Pick your battles would be my best advice.
Good luck, it will get better, i promise xx