My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

This is cultivating a really gross attitude, please stop!!

Who cares what the other families in the village do?! If they want to enable hideous, grabby behaviour in their teenagers, doesn't mean you have to!

It’s hard to convey everything in a post but I wonder if there’s something beneath it all. I imagine you have explored this? I realise it’s different but my DD is 12 and usually when behaviour is moody it’s because there’s something going on. This might be just feeling overwhelmed, anxious about something someone said or did that she doesn’t know what to do with, feeling inadequate if something is hard at school etc. It can be hard to pry out as sometimes she can’t verbalise it, she just knows she doesn’t feel great. Once we can talk about things and she realises she’s ok, the mood changes. I’d also add that I think screen time is a massive factor on mood. Good luck x

I thought of this poster when i read your posts.

Your son sounds totally spoilt. It's not material things he needs, it's time. He thinks he's better than everyone else because he gets spoilt all the time.

One interesting thing you mentioned was about your relationship with him. You said " I have ALWAYS put him first" I suspect thats why he feels he can do what he's doing - he has always been put first. I don't believe in treating kids like that but we all do things differently.

I would tell him you will call social services for him, he doesn't have to complain to school about you being bad parents. Tell him they want him to move into a B&B and he needs to do everything himself.

I think you need to give him a bit of tough love, less material things. He needs to know the important thing in life isn't money and possessions.

Re diagnosis - CAMHS are notorious for gatekeeping. If you can get past them and to the actual process you might find that your son is indeed diagnosed ND. This is especially so for PDA presentations, as in this country it isn’t really recognised. We managed to get seen directly by the clinic who does our borough and hey presto, diagnosis. Is there any way you could bypass CAMHS?

For everyone's sake, forget the 'keeping up with the Jones'. It doesn't serve anyone. Your son knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Sell the bike, and the other abandoned hobby equipment. He pulls his weight around the house or the phone and lifts stop. Let him rage and report you to school. Pre-warn the school if necessary. I'm sure they will be on your side.

It sounds awful and you have all my sympathies. I know you have tried your best to give them lovely memories and a financially secure childhood, but it sounds like now is the time to cut back on material things and focus on the mental and emotional. Spend some of that money on family therapy. He may refuse to attend, but it would still be useful for you, your husband and daughter. Your husband needs to work through his negative feelings towards your son, and your daughter needs to be recognised but also not as the 'golden child' - this could give her anxiety not be be seen as 'bad' or be able to fail. It sounds like your son is money motivated, so use that as a reward system as others have said. Explain that the reason no-one is getting lots of presents is because you now have to focus on spending that money to help the family get through this tough time. And recognise he is also having a tough time, its not about blaming him but saying "you're not happy, we're not happy, let's figure out how we can change this"

Pay for private asc and adhd assessments

The fact that your husband says he’s willing to wash his hands of him points to quite serious parenting issues imo.

The fact that he says he wants to be out of the house to be away from you but you frame this as he only wants to avoid rules and consequences also indicates that you are not really able to see things through his eyes or respect his experience. there are rules and consequences outside right? he doesn’t feel at home with you.

It’s understandable you may find your daughter a lot easier but it does come across that she is the favourite and there’s no doubt he will be picking up on that which will further alienate him from everyone in the family

in short, I can see a few reasons why this young man might be unhappy and acting out, but with the narrative that he is spoiled and selfish it’s like he will never be heard and he doesn’t have the maturity to articulate himself, he just knows he is unhappy.

And he does sound overly entitled when it comes to money but also it looks like you have used money as some kind of love currency (I know you’re trying to do your best, but the family sounds really quite materialistic) so perhaps in demanding money from you he’s actually asking for evidence of love. You do see that in some families

you are obv not skint so I’d strongly recommend getting some private ddp family therapy which would be delivered to your husband you, kids probably wouldn’t be involved, but family dynamics can be explored and you can deliver change to your family by changing parenting approach

being punitive towards him will not work. You guys need help to reconnect with him.

He just sounds spoilt, and his lovely friends don’t sound that lovely. I wonder what they all get up to when they’re not spending their parents thousands.----

I hugely sympathise Op (and tbh find some of these posts unhelpful - why post if you have not experienced this yourself as a parent? )

I have a 13 year old who is VERY similar. Seen as well behaved, is out a lot with friends and has a ncie group of friends but some of the time is incredibly hostile in the house.

I think some young people are hugely driven by a need for autonomy - I think you just hold boundaries and hope they mature/ grow up ! Do not accept rudeness, do not provide lots of tech gifts and money for them if they are rude - but also - and this is the painful part - you have to maintain 'connection'

I do believe in connection before correction - there is nothing to be gained from a perpetually hostile home

Would he come on a holiday/ adventure type break ? would he take part in family counselling?

there are no easy answers - I have two children who are very difficult in different ways and find it really tedious whern people say 'oh just do X'

Wherever he is in the world there will always be people with more money, and people who are silly with money like his friends’ families.

We’re talking about a village and a state school presumably. Imagine if he was at a private school where parents had serious money? In London where living in multi-million £ houses is relatively normal? What would he do then?

If he wants that kind of money he needs to knuckle down at school do well and get a job in finance.

I don’t understand why you’re indulging this expensive crowd-following.

In the kindest possible way @Wherehaveigonewrong29384 stop buying stuff and spend the money on a good private adolescent psychiatrist. This isn't the time for me to rant about CAMHS from a personal perspective but you will get nowhere fast and not to the place he needs to be to optimise his future.

Just to add, I’ve just read your further posts. What jumped out at me was rules, punishments, love bombing etc. What about talking? Validating his feelings re his friends getting more stuff? It’s normal to be jealous etc, helping him manage those feelings? He doesn’t gain by pushing you away, there’s something really self destructive in his behaviour. I think you have to show you love him. I don’t even what love bombing is re a child. Showing love surely is something you show every day in a consistent way. It sounds really hard and I’m sure you are doing your best x

You can really see why some cultures have an intiation rite for young men at that age. “Think you’re the Silverback? The Big I Am? Here. Hold this tarantula and stand one-legged on a pole for 4 days straight.”

I think your son is asserting his dominance, fueled by testosterone, in a context of historically few boundaries and rules. He has got used to having his own way. He is also desperate for status. The latter is a positive thing that can, in the right conditions, propel young men towards success. I disagree with OP’s opinion about his ‘lovely’ friends. It sounds like a gang that is collectively holding their parents hostage, yet to get into serious trouble.

If he’s keen to leave home, what about the armed forces? This could be the making of him - being with different kinds of people, learning the value of discipline, wearing a uniform to be proud of (rather than the yoof uniform of trendy clothes and trainers), seeing the world and gaining highly valuable qualifications in fields such as engineering. It’ll also sever the very toxic, vacuous connections he has and prevent the inevitable dissapointment awaiting him: failure in employment and relationships.

The anxiety does fit with the controlling aspect. It is a funny situation with kids but often the outside perception of support doesn’t match the inside need the child has.

That said if he cannot bring any awareness to these issues or meet the people trying to help him half way then all you can do is keep the door open.

It sounds extremely difficult, difficult family members are so challenging because especially with kids there is no respite from it.

It is fair to say that deep down somewhere a fundamental need of his is not being met. Whether that is due to some undiagnosable ND or an underlying developing PD or some early unidentified trauma, there is something going on in his inner world.

Hopefully he can get through it with the support and guidance you are giving him. It sounds like you are doing the absolute best that a parent can.

I agree you are wasting your time on CAHMs (and it literally would be a waste of their precious resources if you did pin them down which you won't). I had a child self harming, threatening violence - at aged 8 - serious MH issues - we have never had a single hour of NHS MH support despite two years spent trying.

There is no such thing as MH support on the NHS for rude and possibly slightly unhappy teens. If there is you need to pay for it.

Exactly. The whole family seems to be in thrall to chasing after some silly families in the village. It’s not making DS happy. It’s not working on any front.

Absolutely this . Time for tough love . He has learnt behaviour has no consequences.

By the way, CAMHS is extremely dysfunctional as so overstretched, and if you’ve got private funds I think you’d be reckless going through them rather than just dealing with it privately, this is your child’s mental health you’re talking about. You would also be looking at a waiting list of multiple years to get any treatment.

My twopence is that you continue to provide the Xmas presents, like you said, if you do it for daughter, you do it for him. But stop the day to day demands. Get him a bus pass. He doesn’t get clothes on demand, he gets them when he needs them.

Then id stop trying so hard with the discipline. If he’s not doing well with school, then don’t give extra treats, tell him what your expectations are. But coming down hard on him isn’t working and it’s making everyone miserable.

When he says you’re neglecting him, just smile and nod. Do what you would expect to do for a 15 year old, don’t be hands off just because he’s being difficult, but yes it’s normal to start trying to teach independence.

if hes asking for extras then you make it clear that any allowance or treats are contingent to him being involved in family life, so basic chores etc. I wouldn’t pay him to do chores but I wouldn’t be giving him the extras unless he starts at least trying.

Dont compare as your DD is 12, you have no idea how she’ll be at 15 and its not nice that he clearly sees how much more of a delight you find her.

Mostly id probably loosen the reins a bit, as what’s going on now isn’t working and you telling him off all the time is making him miserable. Maybe if you take a step back and give him space then the nice side of him will reappear and you’ll be able to go back to basics with rebuilding a relationship.

First of all I’d be refunding a significant chunk of those £1k Christmas presents. Remind him of the naughty list and what that actually means.

He’s playing you all against each other for his own gain. You didn’t raise a horrible child but you’ve nurtured one by not having any consequences for his actions. Don’t be a mug anymore.

Those saying it’s teen boy behaviour need to realise those traits can seep into adulthood and before you know it they’re horrible narcissistic manipulative adults. Nasty mummy’s boys often become nasty men, we’ve all read threads on here about the MILs who see no wrong in their abusive DS behaviour.

I'm sorry OP but this is probably the problem. He sounds overindulged to the extreme. You prioritised him over your husband.

It's time to row back. He gets a roof over his head and food on his plate, but haircuts and expensive clothes are out. If he completes his chores he gets X amount of money. If he doesn't do anything then he gets 0.

You tell him you love him but that you're not his doormat.

Counselling. Sounds like a narcissist in training.
I really hope you can turn things around.

My mum stopped washing my clothes at 13. It never did me any harm, he hasn't got a leg to stand on here.
It sounds like he needs to learn the value of things and that includes peoples time. Time spent washing his clothes for example.
I was a difficult teen and I think noe reflecting that finding purpose and understanding your privilage is important. If he hates being in the house, maybe tell him to find some purpose outside the house. Volunteer work at an animal shelter or a soup kitchen or the local church Christmas collections. Tell him if he has purpose outside thrn you will support him with money, lifts etc. Find him some way to pay back his time for the time others are spending on him.
Hopefully then he will come to a realisation that time is also valuable, he is very privilaged and he might start refecting on his own behaviour at home.
It will be much harder to complain about his washing not being done when he has seen first hand that some kids will be getting a shoebox with a couple of gifts as their only present.

I think we see the impact of overuse of diagnosis and MH issues in our society. He is a teenager, I behaved like this at points as a teen myself - what does 'anxiety' mean in this context?

he is being rude, pushing away his family - and is perhaps being parented in an overly permissive way (ongoing gifts, spending etc) - sounds like his father is disconnecting at a key point.

This has nothing to do with needing help from psychiatrists! This is a cultural issue - I would work on what is good (he has friends, he likes being outdoors and has hobbies) - and look at what doesn't work - he is spoilt despite being really rude a lot of the time.

I also think breaking up a family for a teen would be a MASSIVE burden to put on his shoulders - I mean that would put him in therapy as an adult!! You and your husband need to be together surely on this? he needs to see unity from you - not split.