My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

What? For goodness sake. Having standards and boudaries and rules is not symptomatic of anything.

Why does every tiny thing have to be pathologised?

He’s gone beyond boundaries though. He won’t change his fixed behaviour to help his son.

Its not even a boundary. It’s horrible behaviour.

Sounds like his father is his first bully.
A tale as old as time.

It sounds horrible but we don't need the constant pathologising. The list of what is supposedly wrong with people goes on and on.

He could just be unpleasant, overwhelmed, ill, in despair. We don't know.

I wasn’t pathologising.

There have been numerous references to the D’s being possible ND. ND is usually inherited. The father can’t budge an inch to help the son due to his rigidity.

That is not a boundary. He only seems to see it in black and white.

Why are you defending an awful parent?

Surely the first step is a hard stop on money, lifts, demands for clothes / items / haircuts every week. If he has a smart phone stop that contract and just get him a basic phone he can phone / text on. Unfortunately all the time you keep responding to his demands he has no incentive to change / moderate behaviour and as for spending £1k on his Christmas present that would be going straight back.

He gets money / clothes etc. when he can demonstrate he can behave, do the required chores at home and behave like a civilised human. Teenagers will always push boundaries as their brains are hard wired to do this, but if they are allowed to consistently overstep them they will keep pushing and pushing.

I’m sorry but it reads like your DH has been trying to manage behaviour but you as mum have continued to indulge him and his bad behaviour and you both have been on completely different pages for boundaries hence the lack of control now as he has been able to exploit the difference and I suspect mainly defaulting to you to get his own way. You need to instate firm boundaries now. Yes it will cause more arguments / issues initially but once he doesn’t get rewarded for bad behaviour and doesn’t have the resources or lifts to be out with friends his behaviour will modify. Unless you do this now you have created a person who won’t cope in the outside world, won’t be able to look after himself and no doubt be an awful partner for some poor GF / wife in the future.

Also I have just remembered what I did once to my daughter when she was just quite frankly vile, not speaking nicely etc, and it was actually the last time she behaved that way. I took the little trick from my mum, because I was bloody horrible as a teen, nothing ever bothered me. But I do remember the one time she ignored me. So I went quiet as in after yet another nasty outburst from her, I just ignored her not for a long long time but enough to make my point. I only spoke to her in a monotone voice when it was tea, or to come grab her washing etc. But any conversation she wished to have I just ignored her. Sounds cruel I know but it didn’t take long and she was asking when I’d speak to her again etc because she didn’t like it. to which I calmly sat her down and explained that when you don’t talk nicely treat people how she had been treating me and speaking to me the way she had, doesn’t make me wanna listen, talk to her pretending my feelings don’t get hurt etc. but to her siblings I was normal. This was a few years ago and you know what she tells her younger siblings when they are being delightful teenagers the time I ignored her and how it really made her think and realise how she had been and that it was worse than any grounding or taking her phone off her.

so yes people may think it’s cruel but like I’ve said to others who have judged, the way teenagers can talk to is parents it’s cruel and where two wrongs don’t make it right sometimes it can make them think and realise they can hurt our feelings we are only human xx

You and DH have to align. Hating his son isn't acceptable, but making excuses for him is either. You need to align on how you address this

I also think you need to ensure your DD gets some positive time with each parents outside this

If hes not doing chores or performing in school he wouldnt be Getting money and lifts at my house. It sounds like hes been spoilt and getting entitled. If you are worried it's in response to something what about counselling? Either as a family or for him?

You need to back your DH more with consequences and boundaries while continuing with the love and affection your son should get

I am sorry that sounds so hard.
we have something not too dissimilar at present, though not as extreme (yet?! He is 14).

I get where you are coming from from with xmas being equal to avoid exacerbating the issue. We have twins and one frankly would get much less for being a complete rude so-and-so this year but I feel like I can’t do anything so obvious. I feel like it is self esteem that is underlying behaviour, so worried it would worsen it. Who knows if that is right or not time will tell I suppose. £1000 budget per child does seem an awful lot of money.

Have a look at PDA (pathalogical demand avoidance). Even if the diagnosis doesn’t fit, the way of communicating demands can be helpful to adopt in a defiant argumentative kid.

This is manipulative and controlling behaviour.

In your opinion and in certain situations/circumstances I would agree especially if it was done all the time or done to gain or control then yes I agree. But that was not what it was. It was a one off, it showed her that you can not just treat people nastily, speak to them like you don’t care especially those you love and then everything is alright just because they decide they are gunna be nice or gunna speak nicely because they want a lift somewhere etc. It was done as a one off to make a huge point. Everyone has feelings and feelings can not be shut off. When you have tried to be understanding, you’ve shown support, let things slide and talked to them to you are blue in the face about their behaviour sometimes they need to feel something to understand how their actions make others feel x

Stop all the benefits right now. He sounds like a spoiled little brat who has been allowed to behave as he chooses with zero consequences. No money, no paying the phone, no lifts, nothing; if he is old enough to behave that way then he is old enough to suffer the consequences. Set the house rules and stick to them.

ND is usually inherited seems quite a big claim.
Who is N these days?

I am not defending an awful parent, things seems to have spiralled badly.

For people cheering on the dad-whatever he is doing is not working. It’s time to do something different. Telling a troubled teen they are shit and that he hates him-what will that achieve? Nothing positive. This is a grown man with far more experience of life than his son. He needs to be more creative than yelling. You can have boundaries around behaviour without telling someone how awful they are. And then to refuse to doing anything other than the things he has been doing which haven’t worked? Maybe he’s overwhelmed and this is the only way he knows-being the strong man. He needs to think about what it is he’s trying to achieve. It’s why I think family mediation or counselling would help.

It’s common knowledge? My dd is ND. It’s what the pyschiatrist told us.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20250415-the-genetic-mystery-of-why-some-people-develop-autism

This is appalling and it is abuse.
The silent treatment is well documented as a form of abuse.
You can excuse it all you like, but its abuse.

I really feel for you. It sounds like a vicious circle you are all on. It’s hard to see where it ends. We love our children always but sadly we don’t always have to like them; as in we don’t have to like their behaviours and how they are being at times. But then if they don’t feel liked then why bother changing and trying. It’s so so hard. Has your husband sat him down and explained he doesn’t like the way he is behaving? Teenage years are tough, hormones that kinda grey area where they feel like they know everything because they are not a ‘baby/child’ anymore yet know very little about the world and are still learning and still needing guidance to hopefully grow up to be nice human beings in the adult world. It’s exhausting for us parents but also for them for different reasons. Have they had any 1-2-1 time away from the home, an activity something fun to get them both out their comfort zones and the daily stresses. May help to start to rebuild their relationship because it sounds very strained which is understandable xx

Something has happened to him or, those so called friends are stirring things to cause this anger by perhaps mocking you as parents. It smacks of things coming from school and or his friends. Look at counselling away from the school. Find someone who can get him to talk. Try to find other outlets for him away from that crowd. Is there a sport he is interested in or similar.

This!
Where are the consequences for his bad behaviour when you are spending £1,000 on Christmas gifts for him?

100% this.

I really feel for you. Mine did exactly the same thing. It was hell. We put up with this until he was 21 then he physically assaulted us. Im afraid that was it. The last straw (there was a lot in between too) I've had to remove him from the house. I hope you can sort it out xx

you have spoilt him...my father would lock us in the transit van if we behaved like your son....and he did at times !!...get tough.

He is struggling at school & is having trouble maturing, & maybe he needs to feel in control? Sounds like he may need referring by his dr for a autism/adhd assessment sounds like he needs a lot of support & autism can get worse with age and then you get the rages but they don’t mean it and they want a routine but they can struggle if it’s also adhd & you can age regress with autism too!

I wouldn't usually reply to a 20 page thread but this hit me hard, our life is dominated by our 15 year old who can be wonderful but can also tear our house apart. He thinks he knows the world and can't be told anything.

I feel it's my fault. I spoilt him and now reaping the consequences. However, mine is autistic with adhd and PDA so I have to give him leeway but that doesn't make it any easier to live with.

In the past I have felt so desperate I've considered leaving my lovely partner but so glad I didn't because at least we have each other.

I feel you, I am with you in solidarity across the internet.

Well of course your husband's behaviour is contributing. He must be feeling really unwelcome at home, but I'm also not sure that the friendship group is helping, are the same kids his friends at school?

Why do you think these so called friends are "lovely"? Do you tell your son you think these boys are lovely?

They sound fucking awful to me, laughing at his bike etc, and I'm wondering if the constant changing hobbies and trying to keep up with them is a bit of a game for them, and not a nice one.

You say you grew up working class, but you seem to be living an affluent village lifestyle with oodles of cash to splash. Have you gone up in the world and now trying to fit in a new social group, and perhaps been a bit desperate for your son to fit in with the locals too..?

You are encouraging him to hang out with these so called lovely, affluent village lads but do you really think they are being a good influence on him? I'm thinking maybe these friends don't really like him as much as you think they do.

He is trying far too hard to keep up with them, and they keep moving the goalposts. They may be doing this on purpose, bullying can be psychological nastiness and threat of ostracism, not just physical violence.

Your sons life sounds miserable at home, at school, and socially. That's not a reason to pander to him or make up for it with cash and presents either. It may help to steer him into healthier friendships instead of encouraging him to hang out with what sounds like the local village knob heads*.

*I grew up in a village