How do I get ds to leave home?

[BlastedPimples]

And just go?

I am so sick of him.

He's doing AS levels except he isn't. Hasn't attended school for more than six days since January. The school hasn't expelled him yet but I wish they would.

Sleeps all day, games all weekend. Might play a game of rugby here and there but does nothing else.

He's rude. Hostile. Dirty. Consumes vast amounts of food. Refuses to get a job.

Yeah yeah yeah. I know all my fault. Shit parenting etc etc etc except my other three are nothing like him.

I want him out. How do I do this?

@scoliworrier thank you for your wise and kind words.

Gaming is so addictive and destroys motivation. My sister’s son got like this but has now pulled through. About the same age as your son. It made me pull my socks up and think about the future of my own 11 year old. He’s now only allowed on Thursdays and weekends. I saw a glimpse of the future with my nephew.

Good luck. It’ll get better. Lay down the consequences but remember to be loving at the same time. Thank him for the small things he does to build him back up. He’ll have teenagers of his own one day and you can remind him of these days.

If the psychologist won’t give you any info because he’s an adult, you’ve taken him to the GP, you give him lifts to his hobby, you encourage him to finish qualifications, you cook his dinner etc, i’m not sure what other posters can suggest in terms of ways for you to support him more. I think it’s time to try the opposite.

As I said, you can offer all the help in the world, but he also needs to help himself.

Stop giving pocket money.

Nonsense he's in your house, using your electricity and not paying rent. Take his console and lock it away like the child he's acting like

Intervention via his dad?

I was about to ask where his dad is, but these type of situations with boys often apply when you have an absent or disengaged father or Disney dad!

OP, I really sympathise for the situation you’re in.
I think from what you’ve said about his childhood, he’s very likely ND and perhaps ADHD as well.This is just going by my experience.

My Ds is undiagnosed Asd. Did really well at school, got good results but in his very last year doing advanced highers he just suddenly packed it all in. Took to his bed and did nothing for the next 5 years. Despite offers to help. Saw psychiatrist who said it’s likely Asd and co morbid anxiety/ depression.He wasn’t offered treatment and probably wouldn’t take it anyway.
I’m lucky to have another property and he has just moved into that. He says not being around people seems to help. He’s getting himself sorted now, slowly.At least he goes out, does own shopping, cleans the place. Next step is a job.

DD also had issues once she left school. Would sit around all day, messy room, no confidence, wouldn’t go out without me accompanying her, poor sleep.
There were issues with her school work and was often off “sick”.
Camhs were rubbish. School psychologist didn’t pick up on anything.
We went private and she was diagnosed ADHD. 2 years on meds now and her life is turned around. Has a good job, boyfriend, very confident etc. Still messy but that’s ADHD.

Your boy has some issues. Tell him you love him and you’re proud of him and leave it at that to start with.

I’ve been through the anger and frustration you’re experiencing. But I found that showing anger would shut them down or cause a melt down. It got us nowhere. It pushed them further away.
Unfortunately, for me it meant ignoring the effect of the condition( messiness, ‘laziness’, sleeping all day) and finding a time for calm rational discussion when they were feeling able to engage.

Your boy’s aggression could be a panic response from anxiety. The messiness from possible ADHD and if he’s Asd as well that’s a double whammy for him ( and for you).ADHD causes lack of focus… possibly the reason for not doing well at school.

I understand how frustrating it is for you. However, if you’re constantly showing anger, it will push him away.
He needs you to not judge his failures which he’s well aware of. He needs you to love him for who he is… unconditionally.

Unfortunately this is going to take some time.
You will need the patience of a saint but good luck.

This.

Similar here. Slowly recovering and wanting to re engage with education.

Diagnosed ASD at 16, ADHD at 17. Been hiding in her room since refusing to go to 6th form anymore.

Any confrontation or demand results in a meltdown. Lots of patience and humour. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

Look up ND burnout.

I agree with patience and humour … so hard but it’s effective !
Especially the humour. You wouldn’t have thought you could bring humour into something like this but it really works. It needs a different perspective.

Same here @ArseInTheCoOpWindow and @Sconenjam. My dd is currently in ND burnout and has been for the last year, it's the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with.

I am interested to know how telling the OP to stop buying food for him and to stop cleaning up after him (apart from his own room where he can wallow in filth) is going to work when she has three younger children in the house. It is even in practice going to be difficult to remove internet access.

I am wondering though OP given you say he is kind to his siblings, charming and cooperative when you have meetings at school and with your brothers, seems to abide by the rules and respect at rugby, if his problems are not down to ND etc? Although I am no expert at all there.

Because, if he can switch decent behaviour on and off when he wants to and gives you the full force of his shittiness (because you are safe and he can) somebody (male members of your family preferably) needs to have a hard word with him that he either behaves like a decent adult human being to you/in your house or, if he really can't for whatever grudge or resentment he is holding, he needs to move on.

It might do him the world of good to be somewhere without the safety net of a mother as a virtual punching bag. It sounds to me like he is punishing/blaming you for something like some spoilt child and he needs to grow up.

Stop taking him places for a start. Then you have to be really tough with him. His behaviour towards you is controlling, coercive and threatening. You need to take control of this situation. Give him a date to move our and if he doesn't go dump his stuff outside the front door

Switching behaviour in ND is normal. It’s all part of it. They take the mask off at home and that’s where the problems start. They frequently behave perfectly outside the home, but the strain of it leads to worse behaviour at home.

Its typical of ND.

Realistically, all you can do I think is curtail any privileges and benefits he gets from living with you.

Stop driving him anywhere. Stop cooking for him or getting the food in that he needs for his training. Change the WIFI code and don't share it with him. He doesn't deserve these things when he's being so awful to you.

So he can ask nicely when he wants something? I think he needs to do better than that.

Stop leaving your toilet all shitty for me to clean up, then maybe next week I'll give you a lift...

Can't believe how vile some people are being to you I think you deserve a medal. My daughter was a milder version of your son and I took a much harder line with her than you have. She is now in her 30's and has grown into a hard working decent human being.
I know my parents would have never taken that behaviour from me and I didn't with my daughter.
It was very hard at the time though
On MN it seems some people think that parents who object to bad behaviour from their children are bad parents. No wonder there are so many selfish entitled people around
No answers for you but you have my sympathy

My 12 year old son has ASD with PDA profile. He can be aggressive, swears and often won't do anything I suggest. It's part of his anxiety response. He's not a bad person.
I'm not at your stage yet but I can see it coming one day. It sounds like burnout, especially if he's been masking so hard for so many years.
I actually think it's great that he's going to the gym and rugby, and I wouldn't imagine that stopping that, with all the physical and social benefits it brings, will help anyone.
My advice for what it's worth is to stop all demands and just be there when he's ready. Look up 'low demand parenting'. I suspect that won't be popular with other MNers but they're not living it. Education can be caught up when he's motivated. If he's in burnout he needs to recover. It's tough. Really tough. I'm constantly conflicted between what people say is 'good parenting' (turn the WiFi off etc) and what I think will in the long term work for my child (respect, hands off, lots of gentle repetition of boundaries in the hope it sinks in).
I hope you manage to find a way that works for you and your son OP.

I agree with Arse. I'm some way down this path with my own DS although. Please look up Inattentive Adhd, it is often missed in boys.

Honestly I would completely take the pressure off about everything, if college kick him out so be it. He probably feels completely worthless that he isn't managing to do all of the things that he 'should' be doing at this age, which is stopping him from doing anything. It's a vicious circle. I've completely changed the way I deal with my DS and it is definitely starting to turn things around. I don't nag or put pressure on, I have learned that has the opposite outcome to the one I want. I suggest things sometimes and if I do want him to do something I ask 'would you be able to'... rather than it being a demand. Yes to humour and kindness and accepting that he is doing what he can at the moment. I do look at it as if my DS is currently healing from feeling different throughout his whole life and the repercussions of trying to fit in with 'normal'. I appreciate to some this might sound flaky but it's absolutely what's happening here. Please do research adhd especially the inattentive kind in boys and if you feel it's appropriate open up a discussion with your son about it. The relief that my DS felt when he realised why he always felt different and that there was a reason why he can't manage things in the same way or at the same pace as his peers was massive.

Good luck to you both.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow thanks 😊 - I have no overt first hand experience of ND but I am still not convinced it is acceptable to make your mum's life hell as an intelligent adult.

I'd really love to know what all the "shit parent" brigade would actually do in this situation. How long do you tolerate behaviour like this in someone who is depressed and won't help themselves? Gaming all day is not helpful for depression. Aggressive behavior towards his mother (ie throwing his phone in anger) is not excused by depression. And yet he still has the energy and motivation to take himself off to the gym on a daily basis.

the problem with low demand parenting is that they learn that nobody challenges them. I low demand parented and it did work until he was about 13. I tried not to care about 90 of things. Honestly he wore tracksuit bottoms that were too short, needed a hair cut, went to Aldi in an obvious pyjama top, he just did his own thing and for years I let it slide. I focused on 1) look after your teeth and 2) go to school. I still ended up forking out 2 grand to a dentist for his teeth in the last 12 months. He needed a root canal. So, even though I reduced my demands right down to almost nothing, he still couldn't do it.

It is very difficult. You end up with this young man on your hands who respects no hierarchy in the home.

If I could go back in time I would combine Low Demand with wordless emotionless withdrawal of internet and even food. Not starvation but I mean, I used to try and 'tempt' him to sit at the table when he was being an anti social arsehole.

When he was 12 i should have cut the internet at 21.30 whether my daughter and I suffered or not. I regret that.

I have this problem too. It's turning out to be a case of Brown Cat, Brown Kitten but yet, the Kitten doesn't much like the cat. omg. I'm surprised i'm not smoking 40 a day with the pinot g

It depends on the situation though.

Low demand is good for burnout, but not when they are OK. He ds sounds in burnout.

@ChanelNo19EDT yes sorry I should have clarified - low demand for burnout. It's a constant assessment of what they can tolerate. My DS cannot sit at the table 9 times out of 10. Yesterday he had a great day and came and played Uno with us at dinner time. This is rare but I know that when he CAN, he DOES. If I put pressure on he's anxious and definitely can't.

Same with homework, with trips out, etc.

Some weekends he lies on the sofa gaming except for his 1 hour parkour class. Other weekends he can do a trip to the shops, a visit to a friends or family, cinema, drawing, playing with his siblings...

@MaloneMeadow how you have the gall to tell OP that she is confrontational and aggressive is definitely ‘a pot calling kettle black scenario ‘…absolutely incredible.
Your posts have really stood out as being downright nasty and judgemental!
OP I think you have been given good advice generally ,but think switching off WI-FI etc will only antagonise the situation with a big ,strong ,stroppy male !

*could go back in time I would combine Low Demand with wordless emotionless withdrawal of internet and even food. Not starvation but I mean, I used to try and 'tempt' him to sit at the table when he was being an anti social arsehole.

When he was 12 i should have cut the internet at 21.30 whether my daughter and I suffered or not. I regret that.*

@ChanelNo19EDT 💙 I agree with the wordless and emotionless withdrawal of add-on services. I found with my own children it had almost instantaneous results. I have refused throughout my 30+ years of being a parent to be a doormat. Once I felt they had crossed a boundary stuff stopped. And whilst two were fairly problem free the other two haven't been as easy. One definitely has some social/learning issues.

Maybe I am a shit parent too but I have four wonderful children who are doing great who I see regularly and who seem to want to spend time with me and ask advice etc. although I doubt any of them will come home to live after university which is good for them. Although they always can if they need to!

The three who have already left became much more house trained after leaving!