Most 12 year olds are fine to be left alone right?

[MaxwellCat]

Dd is 12 and autistic, also adhd and some learning difficulties. I receive hrc for her due to her needs being so high. I was commenting on another group how sometimes I feel sad that I can’t even leave her alone ever like a NT 12 year old (lone parent dd not in school and it’s very difficult taking her everywhere with me her behaviour isn’t great) and someone commented “why would you even want to leave a 12 year old home alone?!” I mean really? Do parents of NT 12 year olds never leave them alone? Surely 12 is fine to leave alone for short periods of time? (Didn’t say overnight..) the comment bugged me like I was being irresponsible or something.. I don’t think most 12 year olds have babysitters or go to child minders during the day surely?

Finland. In the summer before my DD started 1st grade we got a pamphlet from the charity in the post giving advice on starting school including walking alone and staying home alone after school so I'd say its official advice, though that particular quote I got from a newspaper (pretty much every year around this time there will be articles like that in the newspapers, reminding parents how to tell if their child is ready and how to approach it and set the rules)

(Bear in mind this was in the 90s) I had a key to the house when I was in primary school (8/9 years old) because I would often get home from school 30 mins before DM got home from work.
My cousin was 4 years older than me and he didn't get a key to their house until he was 16.
When I was about 10 my DM did an evening course in college and I would stay home alone from 6pm-8:30pm but I knew not to answer the door, who to call in an emergency, which house to knock on if I needed to and what I could or couldn't do in the house.

So it's definitely dependant on the child and how trustworthy or sensible they are.

I was pretty certain it would be a Nordic country! The freedom kids are given there is literally unimaginable for many people in the UK. Children's readiness for independence is so radically culturally specific, with the UK firmly at the cotton wool end of the spectrum. It's possible we are right and everyone else is wrong. Bit the irreducible problem is that yes - giving your kids independence is certainly a risk. They might well come to harm. They won't be ready, at first, because readiness comes with practice. But not giving them independence also carries enormous risks - to their self-esteem, to their readiness for adult life, to their ability to risk assess when they are finally let loose. It's just that the dangers are less obvious and less immediate.

You are right OP. The vast majority of NT 12 year olds make their way to and from school every day without an adult, often on public transport. They also are frequently left at home alone for short periods. Whoever said the opposite is with clueless or winding you up.

I do understand what you're saying and I don't disagree that waiting until your child is ready is wise. I just don't think you can put arbitrary age ratings on things generally. In the same way one person has a baby that walks at 9 months and another has a baby who doesn't walk until 18 months or one person has a toddler speaking in full sentences at 18 months and another doesn't say a word until 3, you just can't say that another posters child wasn't ready to be left at home at 8 because yours isn't, one person's 8 is another person's 12.

In terms of accidents you're absolutely right about most being fine, but some not. The problem is this also happens at every age. Every year you hear of teenagers who drown messing around by water but the solution isn't to stop all 14/15/16 year olds going out incase they decide to swim in a river. Every year you hear of 18 year old Freshers being killed in accidents because they're too drunk and have done something stupid, but surely the answer isn't put back the age of starting Uni to 21 because some 18 year olds are not ready? Or for those parents to have stopped their adult child going to uni because they weren't mature enough?

People make bad decisions or are unlucky at all ages. Arguably, the ones who have had freedom and responsibility for the longest time are the most prepared and the least likely to get involved in these situations. It's probably the not trusted, no freedom, cotton wool babies who go mad when suddenly spat out into the world at 18.

Arguably, the ones who have had freedom and responsibility for the longest time are the most prepared and the least likely to get involved in these situations. It's probably the not trusted, no freedom, cotton wool babies who go mad when suddenly spat out into the world at 18.

Possibly, but that's just a hypothesis isn’t it? May or may not be true. Large scale studies actually comparing real outcomes would be interesting.

I know lots of posters are emphasising the positive aspects of responsibility and independence in these cases, and no doubt there can be positive outcomes, but I do think parents need to be careful. Because in fact a majority of small studies carried out on these topics find negative outcomes for children and younger adolescents who are routinely - as opposed to occasionally - left alone for periods of time. By negative outcomes they usually mean things like poorer MH, poorer behaviour/conduct, loneliness, poorer academic performance and so on, as opposed to accidents. It would be helpful to do more work to clarify the situation as otherwise there's a lot of guesswork involved which seems to be influenced by quite substantial cultural differences.

"negative outcomes for children and younger adolescents who are routinely - as opposed to occasionally - left alone for periods of time."

That's unsurprising surely. I'm not sure anyone is arguing that it's ok to leave your 12yo alone all day every day for weeks on end? Clearly some people have no choice, but it's fairly obvious that young teenagers need guidance and supervision, and that if that isn't available most of the time, things are much more likely to go awry. But I'm not sure that has any relevance to the question in the OP, which is much more about people leaving their child to go to the supermarket or for an hour or two after school or for a day in the holidays.

How odd.

I would happily leave DS2 who is just 13 at home on his own, all day if necessary.

He is very independent and makes full use of the bus service and his bike.

I just googled papers on the subject so obviously haven't comprehensive information or anything even close, but I remember that 'routinely' wasn't defined as 'all day every day for weeks on end'. On the contrary, in at least one paper it was defined as 'once a week or more' for the after school period. So not nearly as much as you suppose. Haven't time to read up on it again now but maybe best to take a look yourself, I'm not an expert anyway.

Maybe it's not directly related to OP's question in terms of the time periods involved, but I think the discussion has evolved a bit.

I do find the different recommendations from place to place interesting. Where I am (Ireland) the only offical advice is that there is no set age but that children under the age of 14 are not considered mature enough to be left home alone.
So very different to Finland and the local attitudes obviously influence parents choices. The recommendations are so different that I've started looking at the science. I haven't seen anything to change my mind so far but then I've only scratched the surface.

I haven't got any NT children but I was starting to leave my high functioning autistic child home alone while I nipped out to vote, but milk, post a letter etc at 12. He is now 17 and can be left for about 3-4 hours. 15 year old self harms so I don't leave him ever. 12 year old has adhd and the way he's going I won't be leaving him until he's 35! I think a lot of parents leave their children at home all day when they work at 11 or 12.