Most 12 year olds are fine to be left alone right?

[MaxwellCat]

Dd is 12 and autistic, also adhd and some learning difficulties. I receive hrc for her due to her needs being so high. I was commenting on another group how sometimes I feel sad that I can’t even leave her alone ever like a NT 12 year old (lone parent dd not in school and it’s very difficult taking her everywhere with me her behaviour isn’t great) and someone commented “why would you even want to leave a 12 year old home alone?!” I mean really? Do parents of NT 12 year olds never leave them alone? Surely 12 is fine to leave alone for short periods of time? (Didn’t say overnight..) the comment bugged me like I was being irresponsible or something.. I don’t think most 12 year olds have babysitters or go to child minders during the day surely?

It's to do with perceptual ability and motor skills scientists say. These skills develop as you grow older (and to a large degee do so independently of road-crossing experience). Studies have shown that some children need to be 14 before they can accurately judge when it's safe to cross the road.

And then these abilities decrease again as we age of course, so older people are more at risk too.

I have and it was fine but while I was gone once a man came knocking at the door and my son went to his room I and seemed so relieved when we got home I knew he wasn’t ready!

Hi @MaxwellCat it totally depends on the individual.

I would occasionally leave autistic DS home alone for an hour or three at that age but I knew he'd have his head deep in his special interest. He always knew where I was and how to contact me. On occasion id also leave to manage his NT younger brother, again in the full knowledge the DS2 would probably spend his time on his Xbox.

But only you know your kids.

Most 12 year olds are at school all day and either parent works school hours or back an hour or two after school finishes. And holiday clubs often go up to year 7 (some sports/ activity based older). I think 12 is borderline and many aren’t left for extended times at that age. I know people like to use NT to denote ‘no problems’ but plenty of NT children get lonely/ aren’t very mature/ aren’t good at looking after themselves/ have health problems etc and can’t be left for extended periods! So yes I agree with you that it’s unusual to not be able to leave a 12 year old for 30 minutes to pop out but not unusual that they can’t be left for several hours. There’s plenty of 12 year olds who won’t to accompany you rather than be left on their own at home though. I guess the issue is that for whatever reason your child can’t access school so they’re with you a lot more than most

Ferrying them about too much is bound to have a big impact on capabilities - the more they walk, the more capable of walking safely they'll become. And of course the general idea that children aren't capable, so they aren't given the opportunity to show that they can be.

My son is 12 (year 7) and I've left him alone for short periods during the day since he was about year 5. He walks to school alone, goes for walks without me, so why wouldn't I trust him in the house. I think you totally made a valid statement. From secondary school she, most children I know going to school independently and therefore could be left in a house alone. Nowadays kids have phones on them all the time so it feels safer than ever. The only reason I don't leave him very long is because he would get bored but he has had a days at home when teachers were striking and I worked 9-3pm because I had to work and I knew he was busy. Other than that it's been a max of 2-3 hours. Never at night though because that is a totally different thing.

I've not left my 12 year old at night yet but only because I've not needed to. I've left him for four or five hours though - he catches the bus to town, to school, goes and has his hair cut by himself. Cycles to the supermarket 3 miles away to pick up a few groceries for me occasionally - he's more than capable of being alone for that length of time. Heck, my 9 year old and 10 year olds are ok alone for an hour or so!

Of course the number of child accidents peaks at 11, as that's the age that the majority of kids first walk independently to school every day!! If the age moved to 13, that's when there'd be most accidents. It's almost as if some people don't know much about statistics...

The NSPCC can say what it likes, but the fact remains that for most parents in urban areas, walking your 11 or 12yo to school is just unthinkable, and that if no wraparound or holiday childcare is available for secondary aged kids, then they will have to stay home alone for long periods while their parents work.

I leave my 9yo in the house for up to an hour. We have close neighbours on call, they are very sensible and happy to be left. So shoot me (and the majority of my friends who do likewise - Mumsnet is far from representative of common practice on this question, I find!)

Of course the number of child accidents peaks at 11, as that's the age that the majority of kids first walk independently to school every day!! If the age moved to 13, that's when there'd be most accidents. It's almost as if some people don't know much about statistics...

No, you haven't understood the point @Doopydoor.
Yes, the number of accidents peaks at 11 as that's when many children start walking independently to school.
No, if we waited a few more years for them to start journeying independently we wouldn't see the same peak then. That's the whole point.

Basically, there is a time when children have developed sufficiently (perceptual and motor skills, prediction skills) to be able the cross busy roads safely. It varies a bit from person to person but , in general, at younger ages many children will have accidents if they attempt to cross alone. By age 12, the figure is about 2%. This figure decreases over the next few years as children develop. (This particular study was done in the US not the UK btw.)

It's to do with brain development mostly rather than road safety experience. It's like trying to potty train a child that isn't developmentally ready. Lots of accidents, lots of heartache. Wait a year and the same child picks up the skills very easily, they're ready so far fewer accidents.

Anyway, I know a 13 year old doesn't want Mummy holding their hand on the way to school - obviously not. And there are many good reasons to walk - exercise, which brings physical and cognitive benefits, environmental benefits etc. However, we are fooling ourselves if we do not acknowledge that some/many? of our 11 year olds just aren't quite ready and a number will meet with an accident as a result.

It does depend on the route, and training and instruction and practice can all help, but the science shows that, at a population level, 11 year olds aren't quite there developmentally and there isn't much you can do about that except wait.

@Marynotsocontrary Do you know of any similar study done in say, Switzerland where they start walking to school st a younger age, or in a country where they don't walk alone until 13? I don't see how you can separate out maturity and experience.

If children walked alone at 13 I think you would see a peak, lower than US/UK children first walking at 11, but higher than US/UK children at 13 due to inexperience. If children start walking on quiet safe routes to school at 6, then I would hypothesise that those children would have a lower rate of accidents at 11.

My 12 year old has stayed home alone for a couple of hours since towards the end of year 6 when he was 10 (August baby). He’s always been driven to school due to us living rurally but after school he now sometimes walks into the centre of the town where his school is to buys sweets, go to the cinema etc. Some of the boys he goes to school with have been travelling 40 miles to school from London, negotiating multiple forms of public transport since they were 11.

Yes, maybe. As I mentioned above
It does depend on the route, and training and instruction and practice can all help.

I'm not aware if the types of studies you're looking for have been carried out. Comparisons are difficult as there are many variables between countries, route safety being a big one of course. Switzerland has a poor rating for pedestrian safety as it happens, being significantly worse than the European average ( as is the UK), but I don't know how this breaks down by age exactly.

The data I spoke about above were derived from simulations and scientists could observe the poorer motor skills and decision making skills of younger children. Yes, I agree that practice would help them improve, but my point is this will probably take longer in a child that's not developmentally ready and a number of children will be injured or killed in the meantime.

I'm wondering in the US how many children walk with parents when they are younger, or if they are being driven/bussed then later walking alone? As that would allow experience without much risk. I would allow DS to judge when it was safe to cross long before he was walking alone.

I think it's like driving. If we pushed the driving age to 21 or 25 we would likely see fewer accidents involving new drivers, but more accidents involving 21 year olds than we have now as they would be inexperienced.

Should also consider the difference in risk taking and rule following at different ages. Younger children are more likely to follow the rules set by their parents (like only cross at a crossing when cars have fully stopped) and less likely to purposely take risks but 11 year olds are at an age when they are getting more influenced by their peers, want to fit in, and start acting to silly to show off to their friends so might be taking more risks crossing roads and ignoring the rules set by their parents.

Good point. 13 year olds are more likely than 11 year olds to be using phones whilst walking as well.

I agree with you up to a pojnt @EmeraldFox, but I do think we need to take the age at which a child is developmentally able for a particular task into account too. I mean we do that to a large extent anyway, but in the case of pedestrian safety I think we might be sending children out alone a bit too young. But that does depend on the route and how complex it is of course. And there will be variation amongst children as to when they're ready. But overall I think it's a year or two too soon if there are busy road crossings to navigate.

I think it's about balance. There is a need for many 11 year olds to walk alone like there is for 18 year olds to drive in rural areas. We can minimise the risk by regularly walking with them from a young age and allowing them to make safety decisions with an adult as back up.

Of course it's harder for you op.

Most families wouldn't think twice about leaving a nt 12 year old alone for a couple of hours. If they do drag their 12 year olds to the corner shop with them every time they go, then something is wrong there w8th how that 12 year old has been raised. Particularly if the 12 year old is left with a phone and therefore contactable at all times.

Yes I know there's a need and I'm all for balance.

However, I think people should remember that the way our society is set up isn't always in the best interests of children. I'm truly not meaning that as a criticism of individuals, everyone is doing their best in the circumstances they're in and in the society we've built. But when you quote the NSPCC - who objectively are saying what's best from a child safety point of view - and get told they're not living in the real world and are being ridiculous, well, I think that should give us pause for thought.

Sorry, meant to quote @EmeraldFox.

I leave my Yr 6 11 year old at home for up to a couple of hours during the daytime or shorter periods during the early evening (say up to 8:30pm for 20-40 mins while I run my other DC to an activity). I did the same for my older DC.
Plenty of friends' DCs who are in year 7 and age 11-12 were home alone all day on several occasions this year due to teacher strikes. Yes they had schoolwork to do but it was offline and unsupervised. I think this is quite normal for this age.

I was babysitting at 12. I flew abroad on my own at 14 (and was not met at the other end but had to get a train and taxi to final destination).
Growing up, a few friends were 'latchkey kids' from about 10.
A classmate of my daughter was left alone every day during the summer when she was 12, and would take the bus to our town, and my daughter would meet her at the bus stop and they'd wander around town, grab some lunch and hang out. I don't think I could have left my child alone all day every day myself.
But I do think we coddle kids too much these days.

I think the NSPCC has a particular focus on child safety to the exclusion of other considerations.

It would be safest never to leave your child alone at all but that isn't the same thing as what's best for your child - I think it is important for children to develop confidence and resilience by being given responsibility. Exactly what the balance is and what age is right for each child is going to be individual but 11/12 is when a lot of parents think is appropriate