Son brainwashed by Andrew Tate

[NoGoodUsernamesLeftForMe]

Until yesterday’s news about the arrest of Tate I had no idea that my son has been following this ‘influencer’. He wasn’t even on my radar. It turns out he is almost a hero figure to my 17 year old. Reading about what this man says about (and seemingly does to) women is a terrible eye opener. My boy has lapped all this up, including the conspiracy bullshit about supra-governmental forces or ‘the government’ being out to get Tate who is being framed but has done nothing wrong. It seems clear from just a glancing read in the mainstream media that the man made his fortune by producing pornography, that he rails against everything we stand for as a family. He is a misogynist and his arrest for trafficking and rape suggests much worse. He is all about making money and brags about not paying taxes. He is an angry white man who rails against the world in shouty videos.
I do not know how to handle this. My teenage son is not easy to deal with at times. Withdrawn, taciturn, the usual teenage stuff. I was initially delighted that at least he talked about it to us yesterday and we had a calm discussion. But I have since found out who this guy is and got more of a sense of the indoctrination that has taken place.
I wonder if other parents are in a similar situation? How should I handle this? I fear that the more I say against this guy the more appealing he will be to a teenager. It’s all about being different to your parents, and what this toxic man stands for could be no more different.
I don’t think removing his phone is the answer, it would only antagonise him. I need him to stay on side and to see what this icon really is like.
Any suggestions on how to handle this would be really appreciated. I am beside myself with worry about what damage this has already done to my son and how to stop this man skewing my son’s world view. As he has millions of followers it’s likely other parents here have a similar experience.
Thank you! 😢

I have been thinking about this. My son isnt indictrinated but he did say that the taliban isnt banned from twitter but this guy is, which made me think he had some sympathy towards him.

I think I am going to subtly talk about some of the things i disagree with and also just check my son is ok and has mental health support, more positive male views and hope for the future, so he doesnt feel this toxic path is one to follow.

He needs to spend more time in the real world. It is easy to get sucked into these online worlds where white men are the most victimised of all time and women are all evil/out to get you/stupid/enjoy being treated badly. Its easy to say that's stupid but if you never interact with real people outside a small bubble it could easily be true for all they know (and it isn't just young men who get dragged into these reality distortion fields but he's the one you're concerned about). Just his friends aren't enough - does he have a job? Or hobbies that involve being around a mix of people of different ages etc. If he has time to spend hours online he has time to work at the supermarket or volunteer down the food bank. I know that's easier said than done though.
I know people will come along and say that the problem is down to a lack of positive male role models. The thing it there are lots of positive examples of men/masculinity but they won't be found in the online influencer community since being an internet influencer by definition tends to mean being a grifting narcissistic parasite.
And I agree - getting obviously upset about it risks confirming what they are fed. I would go down the listen but don't affirm route - I don't think "compromising" by agreeing part way with something obviously untrue is helpful long term. But agreeing to disagree/changing the subject is fine.
Can you also talk to him about pyramid schemes/scams? Because Tate's hustlers academy is such an obvious scam I would be concerned he's at risk of being scammed in other ways if he can't see that. Has he spent any money?

That's an argument about free speech though, not whether the particular speech is true/right. He was allowed back on Twitter by Musk though (and immediately made himself look ridiculous in an argument with a 19 year old). So I am actually against deplatforming in general.

I find Tate and the hero worship really scary

But please don't get on to "angry white man". It's horrible stereotyping. I am a woman of colour btw. Do you know who his father is? There is some other unpleasant terminology doing the rounds.

sorry, as you were.

Indeed the angry white men comment is just racist. in fact I demand the op having seen a picture of his father reannounce his correct race in exactly the same language to prove they aren't racist. Go on @NoGoodUsernamesLeftForMe fill in the blank and sat it out loud " angry _ man" if you think his race is so relevant.

Gosh wokes don't miss any attempt to have a go do they even when they are wrong.

I'm usually accused of being a coconut rather than "woke" - that's new.

Sorry OP. Didn't mean to derail.

Andrew Tate isn't white.

Millions of teenagers have been taken in by him OP. I wouldn't read too much into it just try to expose him to more palatable speakers with views that can resonate, Jordan Peterson could interest him and he is not problematic like Tate.

My son n is 19 and he had also been watching this awful man on tik tok a few years ago.

Said some awful things to me about women etc
We had some discussions about incels, male privilege and misogyny.
I downloaded tik tok and followed lots of feminists and anti A Tate people and we all managed to get him removed from the platform! My son sees the error of his ways now he's older and lots of his friends hate him.

Advice is talk to him keep communication open, download TT and get talking to him about other errors and odd things that start trending on there. It really helped us understand each other.

Jordan Peterson is pretty fucking problematic, unless the bar for unproblematic is 'not a sex trafficker'.

The issue is the algorithms he's being channeled by. Disrupt those (maybe delete a few people he follows and religiously search good housekeeping magazine using his accounts) and you'll help him see other schools of thought.

@MiseltoeAndWhine is this a joke? Jordan Pederson is the patron saint of modern day contrarianism that’s trying to bring back the whole ‘just asking questions’ thing when really they just want to be a little bit racist, or homophobic, or misogynist, (depending on the person) etc. I’m so bored of this so-called free speech whingery; you have the right to offend as much as you like, but everyone else has the right to call it out as bullshit.

This!!! My god what has the world come to when Peterson is described as not problematic.

@Itsbiasedhere oh please, could you tell us your definition of woke? No, because you’ve never had an original thought in your life and are just parroting what others say.

So bored of people throwing woke around as a term for basically anything they don’t personally like.

@EmmaAgain22 don't worry I wasn't accusing you of being woke. Indeed I was locked an loaded ready to respond to the op when you're excellent post came in. I was agreeing with your post and accusing the op of being woke or simply looking to put the boot into white men. Something that many Mumsnet users love to do and if not they fall back to just men, which is probably why people like Tate (who I'm not the biggest fan of) get such a big following as it becomes a team man or team woman thing.

Well the fact AT is now in prison shows that if you live like he has, it won't end well for you. The victim narrative seems to be very popular with a lot of men these days and AT has capitalised v successfully on that. I've seen advice given to parents whose kids have been similarly brainwashed online about transgenderism, and it was to get their kids out in the real world as much as possible.So, doing things in nature, sports, camping etc. Is there anything your son enjoys doing that you could encourage more of?

He recently did a long interview with Piers Morgan which I will try to find for you, just so you can see more of what you are dealing with. And yes, I'm sure you're not alone in having a son who's been influenced by this man and I get why you're so concerned.

I mentioned him to my teens/young adults last night, on something of a fishing expedition and was heartily relieved that they all condemned him (unfortunately, using rather un-PC terms, so now I think I'll have to have another fishing expedition to highlight awareness on that).

Here's the link to the Piers Morgan interview

Btw AT is actually mixed race. His father was a black chess champion.

@namitynamechange Yes maybe he was trying to make an argument for free speach. I hadnt considered that. He just generally seemed pro AT in a brief conversation.

This thread is classic Mumsnet let's try to censor or ban someone that disagrees with our keen woke concern. Tate (a bit of an idiot), Peterson (who is actually very clever and bang on on many things) people demand get deplatformed, however when other woke causes try to ban JK Rowling or other women's rights people who happen to cause conflicts with trans rights this site is up in arms about it.

You have my sympathy. My son (and daughter) are much younger but this part of thing worries me too.

I wouldn’t try to engage too much around him. Your opposition is likely to just give him something to rebel against. I’d try to gradually engage him with the ideas he promotes. The charges against him are particularly unpleasant and serious. I know it’s not the ideal but how would he feel if he knew one of the women personally? Is it how he’d want his sister or a female friend to be treated? Is it how he’d treat a girlfriend? You’re probably in it for the long haul as someone else will pop up to replace him. I’d try to engage him with more positive role models that mirror some of the less obnoxious elements (fast cars, conspicuous wealth) but I can’t say I can immediately suggest ones that don’t equally offend me.

I asked my teen ds about how popular he is, and he said that AT is worshipped by the trouble makers and rowdy kids at school. I think the best way to deal with the misplaced worship is show the kids documentaries on trafficking. I remember Ross Kemp doing something in India about kidnapped and trafficked girls fairly recently, and it was harrowing. There are plenty of other reference points. We shouldn't be shielding the young men / boys who follow AT from the realities of what many women face. Let them watch the documentaries on FGM, trafficking, etc.

A more wholesome, very successful make role model would be someone like Tony Robbins

Yes, Andrew Tate - human trafficker, abuser, says that women who have been raped need to bear responsibility for it - is totally comparable to JK Rowling

They really should expand Prevent to include radicalisation towards VAWG
www.gov.uk/guidance/get-help-if-youre-worried-about-someone-being-radicalised

OP could still call and ask for help? It doesn’t specifically say they only help with right wing radicalisation and terrorism radicalisation?

If requests are made by parents like the OP, then they might step up?