Son brainwashed by Andrew Tate

[NoGoodUsernamesLeftForMe]

Until yesterday’s news about the arrest of Tate I had no idea that my son has been following this ‘influencer’. He wasn’t even on my radar. It turns out he is almost a hero figure to my 17 year old. Reading about what this man says about (and seemingly does to) women is a terrible eye opener. My boy has lapped all this up, including the conspiracy bullshit about supra-governmental forces or ‘the government’ being out to get Tate who is being framed but has done nothing wrong. It seems clear from just a glancing read in the mainstream media that the man made his fortune by producing pornography, that he rails against everything we stand for as a family. He is a misogynist and his arrest for trafficking and rape suggests much worse. He is all about making money and brags about not paying taxes. He is an angry white man who rails against the world in shouty videos.
I do not know how to handle this. My teenage son is not easy to deal with at times. Withdrawn, taciturn, the usual teenage stuff. I was initially delighted that at least he talked about it to us yesterday and we had a calm discussion. But I have since found out who this guy is and got more of a sense of the indoctrination that has taken place.
I wonder if other parents are in a similar situation? How should I handle this? I fear that the more I say against this guy the more appealing he will be to a teenager. It’s all about being different to your parents, and what this toxic man stands for could be no more different.
I don’t think removing his phone is the answer, it would only antagonise him. I need him to stay on side and to see what this icon really is like.
Any suggestions on how to handle this would be really appreciated. I am beside myself with worry about what damage this has already done to my son and how to stop this man skewing my son’s world view. As he has millions of followers it’s likely other parents here have a similar experience.
Thank you! 😢

Thank you for that video @Sellorkeep some good ideas there.

OP I’m in exactly the same situation with my 14 year old ds, it’s actually very stressful and I lost a lot of sleep last night over this 🙁

@Mirabai Its not about praising AT though, its about finding a starting point for a conversation with a teenager. They are much more likely to engage in a conversation if they feel heard initially, then you can start to challenge them in a gentle way and that way you are more likely to be heard by them too.

I do worry about some of the boys I teach and the influence this type of thing has on them.

My y11 students haven't mentioned him by name but on the last day of term before Xmas I did an need of year quiz which included some general knowledge/current affairs rounds- there was a sports picture round and the first picture I showed was of Beth Mead, who had just won the SPOTY award a couple of days before.

A couple of the boys in the class seemed to have a visceral reaction to this which took me by surprise. Things like "of all the footballers to pick, that's who you chose to start with" and eye rolling outrage. I did pick them up on it and it was just a small
Thing but it struck me as odd.

@Soothsayer1 I can assure you I am no fan of Tate. He has said enough stupid stuff to over balance out the sensible stuff he had said. Just like some posters on here do with their comments about men. I'm just saying if you deplatform based upon extremism what woul people say if Mumsnet webhosting deplatformed them with their misanderist or sometimes transphobia views said on here. At the end of the day there are a variety of different valid special interest groups and viewpoints and occasionally they come into conflict with each other.

Mens rights, women's rights, trans rights, LGB rights, black rights, BAME rights and white rights. There is a hierarchy of what is on or PC at the moment and of course it changes over time. Certain groups try to use their dominant position to deplatform and shut down debate of other groups. I believe all groups should be allowed that freedom of speech even outside their "home turf" otherwise you get echo chambers like the fwr section here, or Twitter who used to equally censor but an equal viewpoint.

Anyway back on point don't deplatform don't censor challenge and debate to inform and educate. But above all don't taint all white men the same or all men the same and as you often see on here blame them for everything. as this will just force these people to seek out others like them that see themselves blamed for everything when often it isn't their fault.

@Itsbiasedhere I'd be interested to know about the sensible things that Andrew Tate has said, I personally can't see that he has any redeeming features at all.

I don't think there should be a "hierarchy" of rights based on male/female/identity. However, what rights are you talking about? Men/boys deserve not to be sexually assaulted, to be coerced into sex work, to be trafficked into modern day slavery. Women/girls have exactly the same right. However - those aren't the rights Tate is talking about. In fact he accepted money from one of the countries with the worst track records in the world for modern day slavery - young men working in 40 degree heat and dieing like flies. No one, male or female has the right to do those things to others. Criticising people that do or who praise people that do isn't "demonising men/male behaviours".

And while mumsnetters disagree about most things, if someone posted a thread on here asking if they were justified in pimping out their young boyfriend on a gay sex website and taking the lions share in the profits I think the response would be pretty unanimous. The same if someone boasted about having lots of boyfriends and how all men should accept being cheated on if they love you.

To be fair how many people watch Beth in club football and how far down the football pyramid do you have to go to see the equivalent attendances in men's football. People want to celebrate the best (because biology matters as us Mumsnet users know) and since the women's teams get beaten by under 15 boys teams then it is perhaps unsurprising they were unaware of her or even that interested. I bet more people know the fastest person ever than the fastest woman ever likewise the longest jumper or the best footballer ever rather than the specific female only category.

Does your son have female friends? Has he had girlfriends ? (I'm assuming that he's heterosexual )

I have a son that age who sees the cars and cash as great and sees the Andrew Tate comments on women as trolling. My son (like his older brother) has female friends and has dated girls so see them as human rather than objects that need to be conquered for sexual and financial reasons.

NoGoodUsernamesLeftForMe
Thank you for the helpful advice. And apologies, race clearly doesn’t come into this
Except you tried to make it in to a race thing and backtracked when posters pointed out your mistake.
and
He seems to have a largely white male following
is still bring race in to it.

It would be nice if posters could come up with ways to stop influencers having so much influence over the vulnerable.

Just say your opinion, own your truth. Don't be scared. The rest is up to where the chips fall....

Does your son have female friends? Has he had girlfriends ? (I'm assuming that he's heterosexual )

I can guarantee that you he doesn’t, he is probably what AT classes as an “incel”.

To be fair how many people watch Beth in club football and how far down the football pyramid do you have to go to see the equivalent attendances in men's football.

because she and her team were all over the TV winning a major trophy. If the boys can't handle that, and presumably the quiz was after the men's team were knocked out of the men's world cup, it's just boys not wanting to budge up one millimetre for women. The more they see empowered and successful women - and us not going "wow! look at what a woman has achieved" instead of "go Beth Mead" - the more they will be able to accept it.

Andrew Tate requires a fight back for sure, but i do think, as pp have said, you need to have a conversation and let teenage boys work it out. Most of them do, i think.

Keep conversations open with him about morals, what's right and wrong, stereotypes and how they can be harmful. Learn stuff together, allow him to share his thoughts without him being put down or told he is wrong and in turn teach him how to listen to yours.

I wouldn't focus this conversation on Tate I would do it generally, saves your son feeling like he needs to defend him ( which is often what we do to "idols") and actually keeping it broad it can then be applied to all the other people on social media. Also teach him what social media is, controversial opinions get views and very few people are who they say they are in terms of nobody shares their dirty laundry on social media, it's not a representation of real life ect, ect.

Your son is not broken, we have all had crazy obsessions with people as teens or thought we know better than our parents/ teachers. If you teach your son not to blindly believe what he hears and develop his own moral compass he will turn out to be a good human 💛

@Iceballoon I wouldn't be so sure about that. DS has a couple of friends who look up to AT and in their social group there are a number of girls, one also regularly has girlfriends. He still sees himself as some sort of 'alpha male' who is more intelligent than mere mortals.
I'm not sure how the rest of the group can bear him in all honesty

He is also 17yo.

Id .eave that side alone. There is nothing wrong or ‘incel’ about nit having had a gf at that age.

I said this about Donald Trump and the Taliban. I have zero support for or sympathy for Trump - so maybe you don't need to worry your son sympathises with this utter wanker Tate. It's the lopsidedness that bothers me.

It really scares me that young boys look up to him. I seen a post on Facebook from one of my friends something along the lines of she's glad he's been caught and someone else has Commented saying her son who is about 13 really looks up to him. I felt like commenting back saying how worrying that is at his age to be looking up to someone like him. It's disgusting!

Young impressionable lads are dazzled by the bling and the money, the desperation for success with women means that what he really is goes over their heads
We need the good men to stand up and face down men like him
wretched despicable snake of a man

@NoGoodUsernamesLeftForMe Haven't read the whole of this thread because... ARGH. But Anna Whitehouse has a whole section on helping kids navigate AT www.instagram.com/p/CmzcCKFLt3x/?hl=en

She links to a podcast she did on it and others who have more resources that could be helpful. Good luck OP.

I think that publicity about him will increase whether or not he's convicted in court and that the conspiracy theories will increase. He's either smart enough to beat the system or a victim of the system trying to shut him up. Either way I think he'll earn even more money

Schools and colleges are required to monitor and report concerns about incel ideologies expressed by students under the Prevent duty, and it is covered in safeguarding training, which is mandatory for all staff. The link below contains information about this:

safeguarding.network/content/responding-to-the-incel-ideology/

As parents, we also have a duty to discuss these topics with our DC, as well as ensuring they have positive role models around them. This extends to reflecting on our own relationships and modelling healthy, positive and respectful interactions with our loved ones.

My experience so far of young males who follow AT are those who have poor male role models in their lives, limited socialisation, MH issues, poor self-esteem, DV at home and often under achieve academically. Very few of their parents had heard about AT when they were spoken to regarding concerns about the views of their DS and the resulting impact on female students, and female staff. That being said, there are young girls who do not recognise the harm caused by AT, instead they are lured in by the materialistic elements of his world and seem to be in awe of this.

My DS 15 likes the guys that do the Distractible podcast. Markiplier and two others. I've listened and they're actually quite funny, not political or anything.
If anyone has a teenage DS into gaming and you tube they might like them (but tbh would probably already have heard of them, and also if they're like my DS as soon as you mention them they will be uncool!).
Just an idea for alternatives, this stuff really scares me too. My DS is very skeptical about wokeness and almost rails against it as a rebellion. It comes from everything being so divided, you have to pick one side or another in his mind.

Teenage girls are often mesmerised by bad boys ...I know I was 🙈
He's done everything he can to monetise and exploit naive and vulnerable youngsters, this is very predatory behaviour in my view.

I think it's instinctive often in humans to align yourself with the most powerful people and these are usually men because they have greater access to power, if you live in a tribe your best option is to suck up to the big man if you are his friend and can do him some favours then he will protect you from danger and share some of his kill with you
Obviously we are now culturally a long way from this and we have the tools to think about this in a much more sophisticated way but it's still possible for the unscrupulous to exploit these deep instincts and block critical thinking.

Nope i'm afraid your wrong about the types of homes you imagine these boys coming from. You are stereotyping.
I've known about A.T for a long time and have been trying to couteract his influence on my ds for months. Ds is a very intelligent boy doing very well in a small indepent school. Home circumstances are two parents working in public sector who have spent our lives working to make other people lives better. Those are the values in our house that ds has grown up around, that we value society, and that we should make a positve difference to other peoples lives. We are actively engaged in ds life and hobbies, and talk a lot as a family.

Ds has always had lots of hobbies and extra curricular activities. He's very sporty and loves being part of a team. He's quietly popular at school i.e. not the pushy mouthy, alpha male popular, just the nice kid popular. He is not friendly with the touble makers.

None of that has stopped him falling under A.T.'s spell.