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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Sil cancelled visit as our dd wants to be a man.

338 replies

Moomoola · 16/12/2022 07:34

our lovely dd has been getting more isolated from us. On sun she left a note and ran off to her friends house for a few nights to think things through. Friend 17 is having hormones to be a man. Dd threatened the same. She wears a breast binder. They are going out together and there is much subterfuge and lies. We’ve never said anything as far as we are aware, dd onv thinks differently.
Yesterday Dh told his sister who livesabroad and she has immediately cancelled them all coming to stay tomorrow. She doesn’t want her 14 dd to be influenced as she is going out with a girl.
it’s so sudden, we’ve been excited for months. She’s telling her dd it’s due to strikes. What do I tell mine?
do I say strikes or do I tell the truth - it’s a consequence of you leaving us a note and running off.
it’s been horrible and now what should have been fun is depressing and there’s also no reason for dd to come back now when she finds out.
also what do I do with dd?!

OP posts:
Wiluli · 16/12/2022 13:13

mindutopia · 16/12/2022 10:03

Your SIL is being ridiculous. Contrary to popular belief, being around people who are gay or trans will not make you either. 🙄I went to a girls school where a sizeable minority of the students/my friends were gay/having relationships with other girls/dressing in a masculine way (though we wouldn't have really known the word 'trans' back then). This was in the early 90s. I didn't turn out gay or trans after many years in their close company. I'm sure your niece would be perfectly fine not being 'converted' during a short festive visit.

That said, it sounds like things are tough at home if your dd is running away and struggling with who she is and being accepted. This isn't unusual for her age. But it sounds like a good time to focus back on her and give her some love and support to help her figure out what's going on with her. In the larger scheme of things, there is much worse that could be happening - my friends growing up ran away with drug dealers, got pregnant at 14, were in abusive relationships (I had to go rescue one from her bf who was threatening to kill her with a sword), were being abused by their parents, etc. I'd focus on supporting her through this time so she comes out on the other side okay. I wouldn't tell her about anything your horrible SIL has said.

People here saying being trans is a cult are laughable. If only they’re read their own posts and realised who seems to be from a cult 🤦🏻‍♀️🙄.
I do wonder how much contact some of the people here have with gay and trans people . I doubt I’m the only one with friends and family in both of those groups for over a decade and that struggles to attempt to comprehend the hate . This lesbians hating trans women is a very British thing too it seems

Wiluli · 16/12/2022 13:17

knittingaddict · 16/12/2022 10:07

It absolutely works like that.

With up to 5% (figures vary slightly) of young people in the US identifying as trans or non binary, there has been a massive increase in trans teenagers. Do you really think 5% of the young population are gender dysphoric or is something else going on?

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Nothing is going on , people simply have freedom to show who they feel they are . 50 years ago the gay population was much smaller statistically, off course that is nothing but BS , people would just hide it and lead a heterosexual life for fear of what others think or on some cases because it was illegal .

TeenDivided · 16/12/2022 13:21

@Wiluli where are all the middle aged women who have been hiding their true trans selves all these years? Why aren't they coming out like the middle aged men?

There is something massive going on with teen girls and I think there are many more plausible explanations than being truly trans (whatever that is these days)

LaughingPriest · 16/12/2022 13:29

I do wonder how much contact some of the people here have with gay and trans people

By gay, do you mean homosexual? If so, there are many gay women on some of these boards.
If you mean "same-gender attracted but any sex" then that could be even more.

knittingaddict · 16/12/2022 13:31

Wiluli · 16/12/2022 13:17

Nothing is going on , people simply have freedom to show who they feel they are . 50 years ago the gay population was much smaller statistically, off course that is nothing but BS , people would just hide it and lead a heterosexual life for fear of what others think or on some cases because it was illegal .

Show quote history

We are going backwards, not forwards. Gender stereotypes are being reinforced and when we should be more accepting of difference we are becoming more constrained. Lesbian young girls and women who aren't "feminine" are seeing trans as a serious option because all of a sudden they have to conform to a gender stereotype. It's incredibly sad and dangerous.

On the whole people can experiment with being gay and have no lasting consequences. The same cannot be said for experimenting with being trans. The consequences can be life changing and life long. That matters.

EasterIsland · 16/12/2022 15:44

I do wonder how much contact some of the people here have with gay and trans people

Quite a lot, actually.

Jellycats4life · 16/12/2022 16:03

Chuntypops · 16/12/2022 12:06

Can anyone link me to some stuff about social contagion in the contact of this thread? Thanks

Sorry, my post above is for you and I forgot to hit the Quote button

Usee8789754 · 16/12/2022 16:38

That article on tics is fascinating

Onceuponawhileago · 16/12/2022 22:37

Moomoola · 16/12/2022 08:35

Thanks for this. I think part of the problem is we’re supposed to not question anything or we are transphobic. I am able to talk to her a bit - or I was she’s getting more secretive.

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I see the difficulty. But I see it like this: if your daughter was bulimic or anorexic you would immediately intervene? Why? Because you love her and are unafraid of being labeled anything. The Trans lobby have successfully leveraged parents into feeling they cant act for fear of being labeled transphobic. Thats dangerous bullshit and I would say it exactly as it is. Its a highly damaging, disempowering social cult that is really a fetish invented by men where the idealogy is carried out by impressionable young women like your daughter. It needs to stop.

Original poster
Moomoola · 16/12/2022 23:03

EasterIsland · 16/12/2022 15:44

I do wonder how much contact some of the people here have with gay and trans people

Quite a lot, actually.

Thanks everyone.
dd actually came home tonight aand we made a real effort to be family, and hang out and not stress her out. Tbf to her she made an effort too and hung out with her brother 14. He didn’t say but seemed so much more animated and pleased to have her back.
of course as soon as it can conceivably be bed time she’s on her phone and is now very definitely behind a firmly shut door.
we just said cousin wasn’t coming due to strikes.
I will need to talk to her tomorrow and find out what she’s actually thinking.
the doctor said ask her where she’s at and listen rather than give your opinions. It’s obviously a mine field because the slightest comment wrong and I become seen as transphobic.
I’m quoting the above because obviously I’ve lived on this planet long enough to know, shock! All sorts of people. But I agree with other pps who say that what appears to be a manipulative relationship is the problem.
of course managing dhs stress is also a problem.
Actually there’s just lots of problem! But thank goodness she’s home for now.
thank you for the links, I’m doing a lot of reading .
thank you all.

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 17/12/2022 18:56

Had a chat to dd at least she is stalking to me, but says she’s interested in hormones. Agh! Her girlfirned(?) went privately to get hormones at 15 and is now, 17 not taking them regularly as she thinks she is male enough without getting a deep voice but has a beard. Very very odd thinking I feel. This friend looks totally wierd. We are very worried she wants a companion in hormone taking.

OP posts:
LaughingPriest · 17/12/2022 19:03

So the friend thinks to be a man you need to be "male"? Isn't that what we are told is transphobic?

Original poster
Moomoola · 17/12/2022 22:16

It’s very strange, dd tells me that she and her friends all believed you had to be very feminine and wear dresses or very masculine and wear boy’s cloths. It took her a lot of struggle to realise she could wear a bit of both. I’m totally gobsmacked! She’s been bought up with me wearing’mens clothes’ jeans and jumpers. Most of my mates do too. Who needs tights?! Especially in the cold north!

OP posts:
Moonatics · 17/12/2022 22:35

Usee8789754 · 16/12/2022 10:47

I am heartened by the responses on this thread. Its easy to think the whole world has gone mad

Oh same, I really thought the entire country had gone along with this shite

Original poster
Moomoola · 19/12/2022 00:45

I think they have!

OP posts:
belowfrozen · 19/12/2022 07:34

Moomoola · 17/12/2022 18:56

Had a chat to dd at least she is stalking to me, but says she’s interested in hormones. Agh! Her girlfirned(?) went privately to get hormones at 15 and is now, 17 not taking them regularly as she thinks she is male enough without getting a deep voice but has a beard. Very very odd thinking I feel. This friend looks totally wierd. We are very worried she wants a companion in hormone taking.

Surely taking hormones irregularly at this age as you describe is dangerous. I don't understand why girls can't be girly & lesbian etc either. Not sure where it's all coming from except internet

Jellycats4life · 19/12/2022 09:39

Taking high doses of testosterone as a female is dangerous full stop, especially for bone health and gynaecological health. If she thinks she can stop her voice breaking I suspect she is mistaken. And that beard will be with her for the rest of her life, whether she continues identifying as a man or not.

MrsAvocet · 19/12/2022 12:24

Jellycats4life · 19/12/2022 09:39

Taking high doses of testosterone as a female is dangerous full stop, especially for bone health and gynaecological health. If she thinks she can stop her voice breaking I suspect she is mistaken. And that beard will be with her for the rest of her life, whether she continues identifying as a man or not.

It's horrific isn't it? I think there are lots of different motivations for young people getting involved in this, but I'm convinced that for a sizeable number it's simply wanting to belong to something "different". I'm aware there is more to it than that and find the number of girls with ASD that are identifying as trans or non binary particularly concerning, but I think that a significant number of young people are just doing what teenagers have always done and always will do and are joining in the latest cool trend. There have of course always been small numbers of people who want to be the opposite sex, but the numbers now are crazy. I simply don't believe the narrative that there has always been this number of trans people but they have been repressed and are only now free to be themselves. Some, yes, but not this many. It just doesn't make sense.
I'm sure that for many, this is simply the current way to express teenage angst. And going through some kind of "phase" in your teens is completely normal of course. The difference is that for most of us, the only lasting effects of our teenage rebellions are a few embarrassing photos that get pulled out at Christmas when the family are round, or at worst a dodgy tattoo or wonky piercing. These youngsters are potentially being left with major, irreversible physical and mental problems.
And it does seem almost impossible to speak out. My teenage son was treated as a pariah for a while when he stood by one of his female friends who said she wouldn't play sport against male bodied opponents. Privately, many of their friends agreed but they were too worried about being accused of transphobia to say anything. The girls were more worried about being called a transphobe than they were about potentially being physically injured. I don't know what the answer is but we really can't go on like this.

Jellycats4life · 19/12/2022 12:27

@MrsAvocet Totally agree. Lots of alternative leaning teens need a subculture and a sense of belonging. They used to have bands… now they have this.

Original poster
Moomoola · 19/12/2022 18:20

Agree too. Was very surprised that dd s generation are swallowing crap like society wants them to dress feminine ( eh?) and it took dd a while to figure out she can dress in the middle

OP posts:
belowfrozen · 20/12/2022 07:49

@MrsAvocet agree re ASD girls as I know two who are on social media publicaly declaring they are non binary , bisexual at age 12. My 12 year DC also know three trans children age 12. One has been since younger and entirely driven by them but the other two declared in year7.
That's just the ones I know of.
You wonder how much years of gender marketing have influenced it. Telling DC what they have to wear and play with

TenzingNorgay · 20/12/2022 22:05

@Wiluli People here saying being trans is a cult are laughable. If only they’re read their own posts and realised who seems to be from a cult 🤦🏻‍♀️🙄.

I do wonder how much contact some of the people here have with gay and trans people .

I'm a lesbian and I've never seen such homophobic, regressive nonsense as this gender identity tosh. Comparisons with a cult are completely appropriate. Stop parading your ignorance. You are nowhere near as smart or progressive as you think.

TenzingNorgay · 20/12/2022 22:07

belowfrozen · 19/12/2022 07:34

Surely taking hormones irregularly at this age as you describe is dangerous. I don't understand why girls can't be girly & lesbian etc either. Not sure where it's all coming from except internet

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If she starts taking testosterone there is a chance she will never have an orgasm without excruciating pain.

Original poster
Moomoola · 20/12/2022 22:20

I hadn’t heard that, tho I’ve read it changes how you feel when you have sex. I need to re read what else it does. I can’t believe it’s good for a person.
dd told me it’s safe and that hardly anyone detransitions, but those that do are made a lot of on social media because ‘they’ want it to be seen as bad ( or something like that. I was so gobsmacked I didn’t think to ask more.) that’s also the challenge is I’m tip thing around as I think she’s going straight to the phone to discuss whatever we say with trans friend.
she stayed there for a few nights as she was so distressed and had some big decisions to make ( worryingly not sure what they are but trans related I think) apparantly they had take outs every night and played with the kitten and friend said stuff like,’ no judgement here, just relax’ 😳

OP posts:
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