Sil cancelled visit as our dd wants to be a man.

[Moomoola]

our lovely dd has been getting more isolated from us. On sun she left a note and ran off to her friends house for a few nights to think things through. Friend 17 is having hormones to be a man. Dd threatened the same. She wears a breast binder. They are going out together and there is much subterfuge and lies. We’ve never said anything as far as we are aware, dd onv thinks differently.
Yesterday Dh told his sister who livesabroad and she has immediately cancelled them all coming to stay tomorrow. She doesn’t want her 14 dd to be influenced as she is going out with a girl.
it’s so sudden, we’ve been excited for months. She’s telling her dd it’s due to strikes. What do I tell mine?
do I say strikes or do I tell the truth - it’s a consequence of you leaving us a note and running off.
it’s been horrible and now what should have been fun is depressing and there’s also no reason for dd to come back now when she finds out.
also what do I do with dd?!

As a parent to a child that went trans, it was very much a phase, an incredibly dangerous one. In the end when she came through it, she stated she had very much been used and activated by a LGBT+ activist.

At the all girls school, about half the girls in her class were boys for at least part of a year. So the social contagion aspect does happen.

It’s madness that’s actually a mental health issue.

Unless you actively support her transition then you are not being supportive is the narrative. Complete tosh.

I wouldn't tell her its strikes. I would try to find a balance. I'd tell her that your family is in such turmoil at the moment and there is so much going on that you need to be alone with just your immediate family unit for a few days.

That way she knows its partly because of her decisions but she doesn't get the excuse to start screaming about terfs

Your comment that she's a people pleaser jumped out to me. It's something I'm very aware of, being one myself, and having a daughter with the same tendency, and I've done some reading around it.

People pleasing is essentially a symptom of having inadequate boundaries and not being able to assert yourself well. It seems to me that this might be how your daughter's friend has been able to exert such an influence on her. I'd guess that changing her gender identity is not something she's doing for herself, but for this friend who has a stronger and more dominant character.

I know it doesn't help with this immediate situation, but if you get the chance maybe some conversations about the importance of being able to disagree with people and say no to things she's not comfortable with etc. Or a book that might help, as a stocking filler? There are lots of brilliant ones on the harm of girls buying into gender ideology (Material Girls by Kathleen Stock, Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier) but these would only alienate her at this stage! There's a book called A Manual for being Human by Sophie someone (sorry - rushing) that encourages self-reflection and is actually very sympathetic to gender ideology (a weakness of the book for me, but maybe useful here!) It might encourage her to really focus on herself in a helpful and constructive, rather than harmful and destructive, way.

I'm not sure why a PP is surprised at the social contagion aspect. It's a huge aspect of human nature in general, with some fascinating historical examples.
And it's particularly a thing with teens. But at least Beatlemania didn't have medical consequences beyond the odd faint.

You need to be frank and talk to her and explain that you cannot change your sex! Do some research and research gender critical lesbian groups. Be prepared so you can show her what’s happening to gay teens. Tell her that you love her and accept her for what she is. Start here: lgballiance.org.uk/

I would tell your daughter sil understands she has been struggling doesn't want to add to it so she has cancelled to give everyone the time and space to work it a out

The trans thing amoung young women and girls is a form of social contagion. I have sympathy for your sil.

Completely agree. I'm "abroad" with my teen girls. Even though they've probably come across this stuff via tv etc, there's no " real life" talk of trans and they don't know any teens that "identify" as anything.
It's just not a thing here. I 'm not saying there aren't people suffering from gender dysphoria, obviously there will be, just that in their high schools, with thousands of pupils, they don't know of any🤷‍♀️

Agree with this. I'd also be concerned your dd would complain to the friend about 'terf' sil and this could end up as we've seen with her being 'reported' to her employer and given abuse online etc.

Absolutely this. Whatever you tell your daughter, do NOT tell her this version of the ‘truth’:

do I say strikes or do I tell the truth - it’s a consequence of you leaving us a note and running off.

You’re supposedly worried about your young and impressionable daughter. Well your SIL is an adult. SHE made the decision not to come - her and her alone. Blaming your daughter for this is the fastest way to isolate her even further.

Social contagion in action. I’m so sorry OP.

If I had a lesbian teen daughter I would not want her exposed to this neither.

This must be a really worrying time OP as you don't know how your DD is really feeling. There is so much pressure on young lesbians today. I'd definitely be welcoming a bit of space for her but obviously don't tell her your SIL's worries. (Covid?!)
I wonder if this blog post by Lily Maynard might help you as she went through a similar thing - trying to navigate the 'hands off' but also not wanting them to make a mistake.
lilymaynard.com/first-blog-post/

(Much of the trans ideology is pretty homophobic at its core so I can understand your SIL not wanting to expose her gay child to insidious homophobia - particularly when it's dressed up as right-on. But as this seems to have escaped many intelligent adults who refuse to examine the premise behind 'women are like THIS and if they're not, they're not actually women' there's no wonder it can be confusing to teens.)

We have just seen a doc. On bbc ffs. Which makes it all glamorous and cool.

I’d do the same as your SIL. Same reasons. But I don’t see any need to disrespect or upset your Young Person. I’d blame the strikes, they send their love and leave it at that. Sending unmumsnetty hugs from another mother of a teen navigating this world.

I can see where you SIL is coming from.
I too, would have made the same decision.
Wish you and your DD the best of luck x

I wouldn’t want that sort of influence in my home around a 14 year old girl. This is so much social contagion - it’s like the anorexia contagion of the 1980s.

Well now you can point out how mainstream it is... and you can tell her loads of 50-year-old mums on MN are gender-free or agender...

I'm confused? They're keeping your niece away because they think she will 'catch it'? I didn't think it worked like that ..

Another voice agreeing with SiL. I would let a young DD of mine anywhere near this situation. Gay or straight. Sounds like your DD has got embroiled in a very abusive relationship - the 'partner' seems very toxic indeed which I honestly think should be your focus. Obvs there is a huge social contagion problem but tie that in with a manipulative relationship and it's going to be very hard to deal with.

You absolutely HAVE to find a balance here between not affirming harmful delusions but making sure your DD has an escape back to you. Maybe the 'no questions asked' approach where you tell her that her well-being is the ultimate goal and if she ever feels uncomfortable, worried, scared, whatever, she's to call you and say she needs you and you will get her, no questions asked.

I think I would come up with something in the middle - tell her that there is just too much going on and that it's not fair for DN to spend their Xmas within another families difficulties maybe?

she left us a message saying we were making her were dresses and other stuff we’ve never said, which I wonder means she is being persueded.

This is the only area where I would be (gently) challenging her. I had a similar experience over a different issue, and I asked when I had said that, or what exactly had happened and my child stopped in their tracks and admitted that I had never said or done any such thing. It didn't make the issue go away instantly, but it stopped the "us against them" narrative dead in its tracks.

I don't know if I would give the real reason for the cancelled trip, I think I would get advice from somewhere like Transgender Trend. But I would work on keeping the home as calm and comforting as possible- this situation needs stress and tension to thrive. Your daughter is being fed a narrative about nasty, bigoted parents forcing her to be something she is not, and her friend's house being a sanctuary. That needs to be clearly untrue. Other than that, I think you need to follow the advice of groups like TT. I wish you well, it's a very difficult thing to navigate.

@Usee8789754 The time when shouts of "transphobe!" held any power are long gone. It's like the "communist!" of the McCarthy era - utterly meaningless. Even the air we breath is transphobic, if the TRAs are to be believed.

Sorry about your SIL but she’s made the right decision for her family. Forget about her for now and focus on DD.

Basically Dd is in a cult and you need to attempt to deradicalise her. I well understand the temptation to challenge her thinking and show her stories of detransitioners etc etc but from what I’ve heard of cult thinking, I think challenging the nonsense merely creates an ‘us against the world’ vibe and further isolates the cult’s victim. In your situation I’d ask Transgender Trend for advice, and specifically ask if they can recommend a therapist who would be competent to deradicalise your DD. Then tell her you have arranged for her to talk to someone about her feelings and take her to the sessions if possible.

If she won’t go to therapy and you can afford it, maybe book a looooooong family holiday elsewhere and take DD away?

I’m so sorry your family is going through this.

It's a common abuser trope, to throw a wedge between victim and support system by rewriting history, so I would absolutely be challenging outright lies like that.

Maybe have a look at some detransitioner stories too.