Sil cancelled visit as our dd wants to be a man.

[Moomoola]

our lovely dd has been getting more isolated from us. On sun she left a note and ran off to her friends house for a few nights to think things through. Friend 17 is having hormones to be a man. Dd threatened the same. She wears a breast binder. They are going out together and there is much subterfuge and lies. We’ve never said anything as far as we are aware, dd onv thinks differently.
Yesterday Dh told his sister who livesabroad and she has immediately cancelled them all coming to stay tomorrow. She doesn’t want her 14 dd to be influenced as she is going out with a girl.
it’s so sudden, we’ve been excited for months. She’s telling her dd it’s due to strikes. What do I tell mine?
do I say strikes or do I tell the truth - it’s a consequence of you leaving us a note and running off.
it’s been horrible and now what should have been fun is depressing and there’s also no reason for dd to come back now when she finds out.
also what do I do with dd?!

I'd do exactly the same as your sil. She is protecting her DD from the influence your DD may have on her. I'm sorry your DD has gone down this route and hope she refuses surgery.

My 12 year old knows three trans kids that I know about. One I'd say is genuine in that the child has stated that since very young. The others strike me as attention cries.

It IS portrayed as glamorous and cool. There is so, so much social cachet in being trans (or “queer”). I was a socially awkward, not very popular teen, and if I could have instantly elevated my profile by coming out as trans/non-binary then I definitely would have done it.

Trans people are special. They’re magic rainbow people. Cis-het people are seen as boring/the oppressors. It’s really no surprise that kids are being sucked into this.

Rotherweird

Awful comments on this thread IMO. Please be on your child’s side in all this. That doesn’t mean unquestioning acceptance of her beliefs about gender but it does mean saying you love her and you’ll be on her side no matter what. I think it would be awful if she felt she had ruined Xmas - that’s your SILs choice. DD is still a child and needs your love and support. I think I would be honest about why the visit was cancelled but explain that’s about SIL’s feelings not about anything DD has done wrong.

I agree. Your dd hasn't done any wrong or to be ashamed of, but she needs everyone's help and support. Trans ideology for teen girls is so dangerous, I almost think it's a form of self harm, from what I've seen in my own home. Tell your dd that presenting as gender neutral is fine, but remind her that her female sex based rights are important, and hormone treatments and breast binding is oppressive and dangerous.

Not when you're in the middle of it I'm afraid. You need to ensure the lines of communication with your child are kept open and the minute you give them reason to discount every single thing you say because you've revealed yourself as a terf you risk losing the ability to discuss things with them at all. Its absolute power as far as they're concerned.

It's very different being a parent of a child affected by this cult like behavoiur to being a feminist fundamentally opposed to the erosion of women's rights. I'm both and its a tricky situation. We were lucky. We caught it fairly young (grooming was coming from online "friends" in our case) and I now have a very confident gender critical bisexual teenage son. His views expressed at home are not the views he would express in public though since the "be kind' cancel culture is too strong. Both of my children know it's a nonsense to say that a person can change sex but "be kind" is one of the most damaging messages our children have ever been fed.

Another supremely sad thing is that binding deforms young breast tissue so they they go from being beautiful to being saggy and flat, hastening the desire to get them sliced off. Tragic. My lesbian friends tell me they don't find the flattened chest look attractive, so your DD limits her dating pool by wanting to get rid of her breasts. Would you be able to persuade her into a good quality minimising sports bra?

100% did the right thing

id not want my impressionable teen lesbian daughter spending time with someone who uses breast binders regardless of how we’re connected

my hypothetical teen lesbian daughter I mean

This thread has been quite enlightening. I've gone down a wikipedia hole and read all about social contagion dating back to the 14th century!

I’m with your SIL on this, and I’m sorry for the issues you’re having with DD. I hope you’re ok.

Your SIL is being ridiculous. Contrary to popular belief, being around people who are gay or trans will not make you either. 🙄I went to a girls school where a sizeable minority of the students/my friends were gay/having relationships with other girls/dressing in a masculine way (though we wouldn't have really known the word 'trans' back then). This was in the early 90s. I didn't turn out gay or trans after many years in their close company. I'm sure your niece would be perfectly fine not being 'converted' during a short festive visit.

That said, it sounds like things are tough at home if your dd is running away and struggling with who she is and being accepted. This isn't unusual for her age. But it sounds like a good time to focus back on her and give her some love and support to help her figure out what's going on with her. In the larger scheme of things, there is much worse that could be happening - my friends growing up ran away with drug dealers, got pregnant at 14, were in abusive relationships (I had to go rescue one from her bf who was threatening to kill her with a sword), were being abused by their parents, etc. I'd focus on supporting her through this time so she comes out on the other side okay. I wouldn't tell her about anything your horrible SIL has said.

dressing in a masculine way (though we wouldn't have really known the word 'trans' back then)

Dressing in a masculine way does NOT make someone trans. FFS. That's attitude is part of the problem. Happy lesbians are no longer allowed!

Being around people who are trying to indoctrinate you into a cult will potentially make you want to become a member of that cult.

It absolutely works like that.

With up to 5% (figures vary slightly) of young people in the US identifying as trans or non binary, there has been a massive increase in trans teenagers. Do you really think 5% of the young population are gender dysphoric or is something else going on?

Your SIL is being ridiculous. Contrary to popular belief, being around people who are gay or trans will not make you either

The niece is already gay or bi, and no-one is suggesting otherwise.
It's the being exposed to homophobia that is the worry.

I don't have any words of wisdom OP, but just wanted to send a message of support and say I hope you are able to resolve things. You sound like a lovely caring Mum, doing your best in a very difficult situation. I'm sorry your Christmas plans are spoiled, but I do understand your SIL's decision. My 17 year old DS has several friends who are currently identifying as trans or non binary and from what he's told me, I do believe that social contagion is a real issue, and in your SIL's position I would also be putting my own child's well being first.
Seeing how much his friends' actions are upsetting my DS I can only imagine how painful it must be to have your own child caught up in all this. It must be a very difficult line to walk between not alienating your child but not enabling their behaviour. I don't know the answers, but you have had some good advice from knowledgeable people so I hope you and your DD can get the support you need. I hope you manage to have a happy Christmas and that the new year brings hope and progress.

Just to be clear - because some posters don't seem to have clocked Stonewall et al's homophobia - they promote the idea that being attracted to someone of the same sex is 'sexual racism' - for being concerned about what sex someone is.
'Gay' means same-gender attracted, to them. Gender being a feeling relating to cultural masculinity and femininity, and nothing to do with your actual sex.

Gay women refusing to sleep with male people who 'feel like they are women inside' have been compared to proponents or apartheid:

unherd.com/thepost/qc-compares-lesbians-refusing-sex-with-transwomen-to-apartheid/

Apols for the distressing things in that link.

I am very thankful I have boys as this seems to be very much a female to male thing in schools rather than the other way around.

People saying - you can't catch being trans - yes you can at the moment. Young impressionable teenage girls who don't like who they are want to be someone else and at the moment the cool thing to be is trans. They get made to feel special, everyone is extra kind and accomodating (otherwise they are transphobic). It is incredibly damaging. Hopefully for most it is a fleeting rebellion before they accept who they actually are but those who start down the testosterone, breast binding and surgery route they could mess themselves up forever.

I'd tell her strikes. I wouldn't blame her - don't blame the actions of an adult on a child.

I don't blame SIL either tbh - removing the whole trans thing, I wouldn't want to be caught up in another family's amateur dramatics, nor would I want DD in it.

If we take away the trans bit... Your DD sounds very very vulnerable. And if "friend" was anything else other than trans...surely it would be considered grooming. The manipulation the immediacy of needing to see her and the wedge driving between you and your kid. Where are the other kid's parents in this?

It's very much like that. There's lots of information on this. Personally I know, via school, a teenage girl who started identifying as trans - breast binder, change of pronouns etc. About a month later, her sister made the same declaration. And, lo and behold, one of their friends not long after. Coincidence? I honestly doubt it. It's like a social contagion and gay teenage girls are the most vulnerable, especially those just discovering their sexuality and simultaneously going through puberty.

I'd absolutely do the same as your sil. I wouldn't want to expose my teen Dd to this, especially as she is a lesbian and the whole ethos of trans culture is inherently homophobic.

It does sound like your DDs "friend" is being manipulative, the bit about panicking stood out to be, very controlling. Hope you manage to sort things out with Dd.

I am heartened by the responses on this thread. Its easy to think the whole world has gone mad

I’d do the same as your SIL, to be honest, she won’t want to be embroiled in among your families troubles. I think you have enough going on without adding guests to the situation.

Fascinating, isn’t it? And I hope that doesn’t sound too crass bearing in mind how many families are suffering right now. But unless you understand that social contagion/mass psychogenic illness is a tale as old as time, and that adolescent girls are an at-risk group, you might start believing that all this is, well, real.

Can anyone link me to some stuff about social contagion in the contact of this thread? Thanks

Same. There are a lot fewer cries of "transphobia" than there used to be, which makes me think a lot of people have wised up and actually understood what's going on.