Sil cancelled visit as our dd wants to be a man.

[Moomoola]

our lovely dd has been getting more isolated from us. On sun she left a note and ran off to her friends house for a few nights to think things through. Friend 17 is having hormones to be a man. Dd threatened the same. She wears a breast binder. They are going out together and there is much subterfuge and lies. We’ve never said anything as far as we are aware, dd onv thinks differently.
Yesterday Dh told his sister who livesabroad and she has immediately cancelled them all coming to stay tomorrow. She doesn’t want her 14 dd to be influenced as she is going out with a girl.
it’s so sudden, we’ve been excited for months. She’s telling her dd it’s due to strikes. What do I tell mine?
do I say strikes or do I tell the truth - it’s a consequence of you leaving us a note and running off.
it’s been horrible and now what should have been fun is depressing and there’s also no reason for dd to come back now when she finds out.
also what do I do with dd?!

I may be being daft.. but is it possible to block texts arriving on your phone temporarily?
dd previously lost her phone. She seems to still be able to text on her old number but it doesn’t allow calls. She has a new number for calls and texts.
if I text on her new number I get monosyllabic replies if I’m lucky.
if I text on her old number I have a nice chat, like today, but from 5 on it suddenly won’t let me send a reply.
I’m wondering if it’s because gf/bf is now there. Or am I being mad?

Perhaps she blocks you when her gf is there and unblocks you again when it's safe to.

That’s what I’m wondering

Ds birthday soon. Asked what he wants, he wants his sister home. Am I being too nice? Should I go round there and just make a fuss? What if dd refuses to come?

I think you are, am so sorry but your entire family's lives are being splintered just now and she is being very selfish.
The biggest risk is yes, she goes for drugs/surgery but is that something that's going to be readily available for free? I doubt this gf family will pay? So is it all empty threats?

This reminded me of this thread:
thecritic.co.uk/Bullying-your-mum-isnt-activism/

Thank you.
very interesting, this is getting more complicated by the minute!
today called school, arranged family therapist if I can get her there.
Just got Dh to relax a bit and reassure him when I get a text off dd. At 11 at night.
it just says ‘ would you be able to bring my school bag to school tomorrow’
am ..don’t know what I am, but furious is definitely one emotion.
Haven’t replied because I think I might text ‘you must be joking’ and some choice epithets. Cf.
Suggestions how to handle this please!
I guess some may well be empty threats but she was in a real state, and when I chatted to her she definitely seemed convinced she had body dysphoria which isn’t a new thing.

Do you think asking you to drop the bag at school tomorrow is a way of seeing you? Without the other person. If you do, then I'd go and drop it and see her. Ask her straight out if she's blocking you so other person won't see the messages - because if she is, DD sounds nervous of them and that's not normal behaviour.

If she has history of treating you like a gopher then I'd leave it at reception and let her know to pick it up. Part of me would be tempted to say no but if it's for the above reason that she's trying to see you without saying that then I'd be reluctant to cut her off, especially if she's starting to ruminate that other person is controlling. Very hard to gauge her at a distance with other person and her mother in her ear.

Thank you hadn’t thought of that.
small question of messing work around.

"izimbra yes we met mum. She seemed nervous, defensive upset I misgendered her dd/ ds . But then she paid for dd/ds to go private at 15. She didn’t want to tell us what she does. She said she doesn’t want to be in the middle. But later I texted the mum to say ‘ it’s Xmas day, we haven’t heard from dd and are concerned, please send her home, well collect her’ I got a text from dd saying why did I misgender her and mum doesn’t want to be contacted. Nice."

I know you believe that women wanting to change gender is a fad and a load of nonsense, but I'm sure you can appreciate that not everyone shares this view, that some parents will sincerely believe that this is right for their child . This family have been on their own journey which is likely to be pretty difficult. Their child might have said that he's distressed by people misgendering him, so it's understandable that the mum would be upset by you doing it. If they have registered your opinion on trans issues it's pretty reasonable that they don't want to engage with you.

Thanks! !

I know you believe that women wanting to change gender is a fad and a load of nonsense,
Err. No. I don't.

The family have been on their own journey which is likely to be pretty difficult. Their child might have said that he's distressed by people misgendering him, so it's understandable that the mum would be upset by you doing it.
Err. Yes. Which is why I tried not to. And was confused because DD has misgendered them to me frequently and the father did too when we met him.

My concern is more about DD being in a seemingly coercive relationship, being depressed and talking about suicide.
About sneaking off and not coming home for 16 days with limited contact.

DD now texted asking forNI number. That's it.
She is so cold. I don't know how to respond. I'm so upset that she is being so hard and hurtful. I thought we had an understanding.

She obviously wants to move out and get on with life but this doesn't seem to be the best way to move forward. It feels like she's telling herself a story.

As hard as it seems I think I would let her go for the moment. She’s 17 so she’s at the age where she’d be leaving home for university anyway.

I’d literally respond

”Hi darling. I don’t know your NI number I’m afraid. If you go onto the gov.Uk website you should be able to find information on how to get your NI number. Hope you’re well. Love you x”

this keeps it light and friendly and not all about her trans views (which is what she wants everything to be about)

Don’t let her have it all ways ie running about finding out/delivering stuff for her whilst she simultaneously tells you to get out of her life. Let her deal with life. She’s more likely to see then that she needs her real family.

This is a great response. I’d also agree with just letting her get on with it. The NHS waiting lists are so long that there’s no way that she will make permanent changes to her body, which I totally understand you’re worried about, any time soon.

When I was 17 absolutely nothing my mum did would have stopped me doing what I wanted. She’ll see sense. She honestly will. It’s a hard world and I would assume that she’s totally financially dependent on you. It’ll do her good to realise what she had when she was living with you. Also, working and supporting herself will give her something much bigger and more important to think about than gender nonsense.

Maybe a delaying message re NI Number? 'Not sure where it is, I'll hunt around when I have the time'.

Unless she knows you are super organised. I'd never get away with that!

This is perfect advice.

She knows you’re desperate to have her back OP, and knows that she can make all these demands of you, and you’ll do them, because you love her and any contact is good contact as far as you’re concerned. I see this dynamic play out with my parents and my brother, who is quite emotionally distant and they wish he wasn’t. They do all manner of jobs and errands for him, and I can see it’s because they just want his approval.

It was a good suggestion, that asking you to drop her bag at school was an excuse to see you, but it sounds like that wasn’t the case. At least now you know.

Keeping things light and breezy whilst not capitulating to all the “Mum! Where’s this/where’s that?” requests is the way forward for now I think.

Thank you so much. This does sound like a good response.

now we don’t know about her brother birthday. He’s 14.
We don’t want her to turn up at home, get all her stuff and leave, similarly meet ing her for lunch is unrealistic- dh and I can play happy families, but it becomes about her, and ds will be devastated when she walks away.
she did say she’d come I guess I will leave it to her to contact me. Otherwise I’m running after her again.

Again, I’d keep it really light

”Hi darling, just a reminder that it’s Fred’s birthday on Thursday. Let me know if you’re joining us for dinner. It’s 7.30 at Nandos on the high street. Auntie Sue is also coming. Hopefully see you there. Love you x”

no lifts, no discussion about presents, no begging her to be there or think of her brother, no suggestion that anyone will be upset if she’s not there, no invitation to significant others etc.

Remember you have two children. Your DS will get through this situation and this day is all about him, not about whether he should be upset about his sister. Plenty of siblings are away for these birthdays at this sort of age.

That's fantastic advice re ni number and the birthday, wonder if the ni stuff is to panic you into thinking she's planning on leaving school for a job? (Can you do that at 17 now?) Even if it is, let her do that. You are so strong @Moomoola and hope you enjoy ds birthday

"I know you believe that women wanting to change gender is a fad and a load of nonsense,
Err. No. I don't."

Apologies - I see a number of posts saying just that, that you haven't challenged or contradicted in any way - made me assume you were in sympathy with this stance on trans.

BTW, I posted frequently on this board when I was going through great difficulties with my daughter during her teens. She went on my laptop and found my posting history and it caused a great deal of strife. If your child comes home to live with you and one day reads the posts on this thread they'd be absolutely devastated. You've said you're worried about them being suicidal - suggest you reread the comments on this thread from their perspective and consider what that might feel like. If I was you I'd delete my internet history every time I post.

@izimbra if the child reads it maybe they'll see the consequences of their selfish, self centred behaviour? Op has only shared the stress that she and family are under due this.

She has said throughout how much the dd is loved, cared for and they want the best for.
Are you the other dm? Can't think why you're trying to put @Moomoola off from seeking help, especially with the 'remember suicide' bit. We all know what playbook that comes from.

"@izimbra if the child reads it maybe they'll see the consequences of their selfish, self centred behaviour? Op has only shared the stress that she and family are under due this."

The OP has said they're worried that their child is suicidal and possibly the victim of coercive control. You seem to see this issue as being primarily about their child being selfish and manipulative, so I'm a bit confused as to what's the primary concern.

"Are you the other dm?" No.

"Can't think why you're trying to put @Moomoola off from seeking help.

Not at all - I think the OP should seek help for themselves as they're clearly really struggling and distressed, and that their child should be encouraged to seek mental health support too.

"We all know what playbook that comes from."

I don't know - you'll have to be specific.

Thanks Wednesday and michelle that sounds level headed advice. And thank you for the moral booster!
I believe dd wants a weekend job.
thanks izimbra I’m sorry you have had such a difficult time. I’ll certainly keep this very private/ delete.
Thank you everyone.