Sil cancelled visit as our dd wants to be a man.

[Moomoola]

our lovely dd has been getting more isolated from us. On sun she left a note and ran off to her friends house for a few nights to think things through. Friend 17 is having hormones to be a man. Dd threatened the same. She wears a breast binder. They are going out together and there is much subterfuge and lies. We’ve never said anything as far as we are aware, dd onv thinks differently.
Yesterday Dh told his sister who livesabroad and she has immediately cancelled them all coming to stay tomorrow. She doesn’t want her 14 dd to be influenced as she is going out with a girl.
it’s so sudden, we’ve been excited for months. She’s telling her dd it’s due to strikes. What do I tell mine?
do I say strikes or do I tell the truth - it’s a consequence of you leaving us a note and running off.
it’s been horrible and now what should have been fun is depressing and there’s also no reason for dd to come back now when she finds out.
also what do I do with dd?!

Yes we will pay for the phone as it’s our only way of contacting her.
both of us exhausted, her brother is quiet and gloomy. Thank goodness it’s bed time !

Should we change the lock? I don’t want her sneaking in to take her clothes, possibly with partner snooping round. It doesn’t feel right, but neither does changing the lock.

I would not change the lock. This is gonna take time. She is currently strong on her decision, however that requires lots more than she is giving it now. She will start to require clothes, money, parental consent etc. It will wear her out eventually. So your job now is to accept it as it is and build a good skillset to deal with the discussion to come. Stay breezy by text- always focus on her, not you, don't give her any of your feelings- ' you decided' ' your decision' ' the way you decided to do this' ' your decision to stay' etc. Don't give her any emotional information- you are devastated but that's not for her to know. In a few weeks you will know more. The thing is this is going yo take professional work to put your family back together in time. Just hang in there.

What was the outcome of her being a minor in someone elses house? Did you talk to solicitor?

Thanks. That’s really useful. Unfortunately she is17., so not a minor.There’s nothing we can do.
she doesn’t need parental consent and can register for a doctor etc on her own.
she says she will still go to school.
we wondered about changing the lock so she couldn’t sneak in and get her stuff while we are at work. so we are not facilitating her. But maybe she will hold this against us. I’m so muddled.
Dh explained that to son and i caught the tail end and it sounded awful.
Now I think we just let her sneak in and take her stuff. Dh says we should hide her dms.!

im not thinking straight but why don’t we give her any emotional intelligence, is that because it gives her power? I also guess she needs me to be unflappable. I’ve already blown it by getting tearful on the phone. I was just so devastated when she said she’d be there for months, and Dh suddenly got up and left the roomShe sounded a bit sad but resolute and cold . It doesn’t sound like her. And was horrible.
DS heard me being upset and Gave me a cuddle. I don’t know how to help him through this.

her uncle called her and he plays it super cool. He texted that she’s fine, she’s eating cheesecake. I think he thinks we are overreacting and to just be oh yeah, ok. And as you’ve all said it will get dull. She previously told him she’s had enough of us. don’t blame her, we are being idiots.
i think this being cool would be a better approach?

I intend to be calm when we meet tomorrow and say’ your decision’ as you’ve suggested. I thought to maybe just listen and fact find but not offer any opinion, or persuasion.
maybe ask how she sees this playing out.

Dh very worried they are brainwashing her etc. and it was deliberately planned for Xmas to cause maximum impact so that they can isolate her from us. there is some scary stuff out there. He keeps reminding me not to underestimate the mum, she is evil. He is going over and over the same ideas, like getting her away. I say we have to get her back first. He says I have to give up work, my new job is to do everything to get her back, his is to earn money. I am finding this exhausting, but I know it’s stress.

In a way I kindof don’t blame dd. The house can be a bit dead - Dh gets in knackered and watches tv. Ds is on the computer. I’m always trying to get on top of the endless mess. The house needs a bit of paint and tlc. I’m so jealous of people with relatives nearby and bustling homes full of life.

sorry for the long ramble.

@Moomoola am so sorry but I think you have to do what you can at the moment which is to protect what you can. So your, dh and ds' mental health and do as your brother says and be 'cool' and 'yeah ok'. I know a huge concern is the hormones and surgery, but is that likely to be something she'll be offered immediately for free by nhs or will this horrible family pay? I'd definitely stop funding anything other than her phon

And I know this probably isn't kind, but I am so annoyed at her immature self centredness. She can clearly see what she's doing to you all and this could mentally scar you all forever, or ruin her younger siblings exams etc due to stress, but its all very 'look look, I'm being very dramatic and threatening to do life altering things! Give me attention and show you're worried! HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME ATTENTION'

Thinking of you.

I think she is probably enjoying the drama and being the center of attention so I would probably say something like

'we love you whether you want to be new name or dead name. You know our views and that we don't think you should do anything to yourself medically or take hormones unless you are 100% sure that you do not want to ever be female as the damage you could do is irreversible. We feel you have not sufficiently thought through this course of action and want you to wait and talk this through with medical professionals. This concern is not because we are anti trans but because we don't want you to regret this in the future and by then it is too late. We can't live like this though and we also have your brother to think about who is struggling. When you are ready to talk about this and move forward then just get back in contact but I am not going to beg you to come home and fight you to do so as this is harming the rest of the family. So good luck at school and when you are ready just phone me'

And then stop messaging her, if she messages you be polite but don't beg her to come home and don't discuss the trans thing At the end of the day unless you lock her in her bedroom you cannot physically prevent her going back to the other family. I am not sure I would change the locks but maybe get a ring doorbell so you can see if she is sneaking home and don't leave access to cash lying around. I wouldn't fund her to live with the other family or pay her any money apart from keeping the phone going. Teenagers are completely self centred and you have another child at home who could be badly impacted by this behaviour - don't give your daughter the attention she is demanding and focus on your son for now.

I agree that you shouldn’t be giving her the attention and telling her you’re devastated/sad/upset/missing her etc. It’s too easy for her to turn that against you. You’re devastated will become about how you see her views as horrendous and unacceptable.

In your position I would do the following-

• treat it as if she’s gone to university. You love her and you want to hear from her but you understand she has stuff going on and so you won’t necessarily hear from her every day. She needs to understand the world doesn’t revolve around her and at the moment you’re dancing to her tune. You’re feeding her call for attention and she’s simultaneously trying to be the centre of attention but also push you away.

• keep it light friendly and breezy. This isn’t the same as being “cool”. The idea is to make being at your home seem like a relaxed “easy” option. It also won’t hurt her to feel like she’s missing out on nice family things. Treat it as a “that’s nice dear” non event.

• do NOT under any circumstance fund her. Make it clear that she’s welcome to live at home but if she’s left then she’s left. I’d probably make one exception, that being her phone. Just so that she has an easy way of staying in touch. If this other family is so desperate for her to follow in their daughters footsteps (probably in a desire to normalise their own situation), let’s see if they feel the same when they are financially supporting another adult..

Then just sit back and hope she comes through this. I’d aim for each of you to send her a text most days too keep open those three lines of communication but not to chase if she doesn’t respond. If she does then keep the interaction light and chatty, like you would with a friend.

Do you know the mum of dd's friend? Have you met her?

@Onceuponawhileago, I know there are mediators, but specific mediators in gender? Because gender, as a religion, brooks 'no debate'. I cannot see how there is a middle ground with it. And very few people understand the full complexity of what can be called 'gender' for shorthand.

That said, there's an organisation called Thoughtful Therapists that are trying to redress the balance and go back to good old exploratory therapy. And there has recently been a set of guidelines produced for therapists by Genspect, which helps therapists navigate the gender issue.

Is this for the OP and her husband? Or for their daughter? Because she's got to want to engage with therapy surely, and to trust the therapist her parents are suggesting. If the first link that comes up when you google 'Genspect' says "Genspect is an international non-profit organisation and group founded in June 2021 by psychotherapist Stella O'Malley that describes itself as "gender-critical", she may not want to engage.

@Arseulaundress I think there needs to be mediation on the central non gender issues. The daughter has indicated trans is the thing for her so that's that. I suggest mediation for things like financial support, where to live, who funds it, access to house etc.These are all critical points before gender. I'd ignore the gender thing and focus on mediating the non trans issues.

OP you truly need a hand to hold

The problem as you describe is much more than your daughter's gender confusion isn't it? You need to think of that wider picture of the family home which your daughter has run away from. More importantly your husband needs to see it in the same light. He should be involved in creating a happy loving home, not just making money.

Your daughter needs to see those changes, and you all need them too, before she can happily return and stay at home as a long term solution. Then you can talk about gender.

Take up that TLC for yourself, for the house, plan family events, get together, send her pics and videos of your happy times. She wants you to be happy too, and in time she will come round to join you.

@Onceuponawhileago The daughter has indicated trans is the thing for her so that's that.

It really isn't. It's likely a fleeting thing that she'll regret - and is also likely to be mixed up with her own internalised lesbophobia. So she needs a therapist who will not foreclose her options.

Gender is a religion, a belief system. When exposed to even a bit of light, it crumbles into homophobia, misogyny and regressive sex stereotypes. If the parents choose family therapy, they need to go for someone capable of holding a neutral space.

@Arseulaundress I fully agree with you on gender and your view of this as a fleeting thing. It sadly will be regretted I imagine. My comment really was to just observe that she is 17, can make these choices herself, does not need family approval etc. Of course the trans debate will have to be explored with a therapist but that really will entail the daughter agreeing to explore. I don't think that's an option at all at this point. Maybe in time. I would try to get mediation to discuss other stuff as I noted.

OP I saw below and thought might be useful. Online and open to parents.
open.substack.com/pub/stellaomalley/p/join-fair-in-medicine-for-a-webinar?r=9fnto&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Thank you all.
well I met her and we had quite a nice chat, I tried to be and was, very calm and accepting but gently curious. but she is determined on her course of action. Of course I am very concerned about permanent changes.
she doesn’t seem happy and I am not at all sure she is as free as she thinks.
she didn’t sound like she’d had the greatest Xmas.
i texted to say it was lovely to meet you and got a yes, me too. Dh did same and got a love you reply much later on at night.
I called today but got no answer.
we are both more and more concerned, the more we research.
just to be clear, our problem is with a coercive relationship, her mental health and the very real possibility of dd being led into permanent changes of her body that she may later regret.

Thanks once upon, I’ve booked tickets.

That's all good. I see your concerns but just hang in there. You can see if she gets happier as time goes on- doubtful. I think that event will be interesting. Take care OP I will check in tmrw.

Thank you so much. Really appreciate your and everyone’s time

igglo yes we have had a lot of issues, and I now realise we needed to get all of us into therapy.
Dh is suggesting I stay at home to research this and to make home cozy and welcoming. As igloo suggested
‘Take up that TLC for yourself, for the house, plan family events, get together, send her pics and videos of your happy times. She wants you to be happy too, and in time she will come round to join you.’
thank you.
And thankyou michellescarn you did make me laugh it is all about attention at that age, just not at all sure it’s the attention I’d choose!

• forgotmyusername* I followed a lot of your tips when we chatted. I made it c,ear we loved her and welcome any time. And tried to keep it fairly light.
• izimbra yes we met mum. She seemed nervous, defensive upset I misgendered her dd/ ds . But then she paid for dd/ds to go private at 15. She didn’t want to tell us what she does. She said she doesn’t want to be in the middle. But later I texted the mum to say ‘ it’s Xmas day, we haven’t heard from dd and are concerned, please send her home, well collect her’ I got a text from dd saying why did I misgender her and mum doesn’t want to be contacted. Nice.

Sorry midnight ramblings. Concerned for Dh he isn’t sleeping and has massive drive and long, difficult days at work.

Can he work from home? Explain to HR and see if duties can be lightened up a bit?

It’s going to be difficult interacting with the mother. She is defensive because she signed up to the cult alongside her daughter at 15. She will not accept that this path is wrong because she’s banked literal money on it, not to mention her child’s body/health etc. And I have no doubt she felt she had the best intentions and was told she had to choose between a live “son” or a dead daughter.

This is the sunk cost fallacy in action.

Yup agree.
poor Dh came in looking like death, he is so anxious. He won’t see a dr, and won’t talk to hr, but did tell his boss who was suitably shocked and hopefully supportive.
Dh would like me to give up my job temporarily. It’s not well paid and it’s not long hours but it is 5 days a week but obviously it’s something I need to concentrate on and means washing etc falls behind frequently!
I am unsure if this is a good idea, it’s a low paid anyone can do it type job.
Dh says he will feel a lot better if I’m researching and doing all I can and making home really homey. I can go back to freelancing which might be better. ( pays more!) I’m also beginning to think it will help dhs mental health. Don’t want him to be seriously I’ll again.
plus side is, had a nice text with dd. So communication is open. It’s not enough for dd who says every day away from us is distancing her more.
I say,’ I can’t magic her home and you need to appear calm for ds.’
oh the ramifications.