Allegations against teenage boy

[Ginistheanswer80]

Please can I sense check with you all about a situation my DS (15) is experiencing.

He has been accused of inappropriate touching at school but has denied this and I completely believe him. I won’t be going into the details here as I’m not seeking opinions on this. School are looking into this and he is excluded for now until they finish their investigation.

School mentioned there was another allegation the week before (different girl and boy) and it made me think….how often is this happening?

I know every allegation needs to be taken seriously and rigorously looked at, but it got me wondering how prolific is this, and how many of these allegations are false/unfounded?

Anyone with any insights or experience I would love to hear from you. I’m going crazy here waiting for meetings and outcomes and feel helpless. Thank you

thedancingbear · Today 08:09

I choose to believe the vulnerable young woman who says she was sexually assaulted. What about you?

I believe in justice and I would not choose to believe either one of them until the true FACTS are known.

But how are the facts ever known in these cases. That's the whole point

ooh just noticed my comment being quoted back at me along with something about CPS statistics. So accusations only matter once they're on a list with the CPS do they? What utter bollocks, honestly.

I recall plenty of false accusations by teenage girls from my own youth (1980s), girls being rejected by boys and sticking the boot in, laughing at the drama they caused. The worst was an accusation of gang rape by a friend that couldn't have possibly happened (I was with her at the time, for one thing) but it caused a whole ton of grief while it was investigated and there was always a ? and nasty gossip over those boys afterwards, despite them all having alibis.

And my teenagers tell me about similar. A hell of a lot goes on amongst kids that adults like you have forgotten NEVER reaches the ears of an adult. The CPS, FFS. Mine are scandalised about something recently that got a boy discreetly asked to leave school, his education is in tatters and zero repercussions on the girl but nobody formally interviewed teenage witnesses, the girl had lusted after the boy for years and finally got him into her bed at a party, some of the teens walked in on them and she was in no way unwilling, but later when he didn't want her to be his girlfriend and wanted to focus on his GCSEs she let rip, another outraged father whose "little girl would never.." marched into school and she couldn't take it back. Things like this go on amongst teens all the time but never reach the CPS or even teachers half the time. If you've never come across it, believing every girl every time is easy, but that's not been my experience so I cannot no matter how much I'd like to.

Oh, and before you kick off about male violence yes I know that thank you, I'm a sexual assault survivor (more than once unfortunately) @thedancingbear . My teens are also currently scandalised by a local school where boys are taking bets to try and finger girls in the bloody lunch queue. Parents have told the school but they aren't interested in "the children's gossip". So I know its a huge problem thank you very much. But taking a rigid standpoint that girls can only ever be victims, taking your information only from the CPS and ignoring anything outside of that rather than looking at ever incident objectively and investigating evidence IS a massive blind spot.

Its also sad to know that if a girl ever accuses my teen DS he is already guilty according to people like you, despite him never having even kissed a girl and knowing he gets into locker room arguments with boys his own age who leer and letch.

rapecrisis.org.uk/news/ofsted-confirms-sexual-harassment-is-normalised-in-schools/

this is very untrue

@bg21 and how exactly do you know that?

Hi, this happened to my son too and it was in the context of messing about with other boys in the changing rooms. The thing is there's that 'peer on peer' abuse that came in so anything, even messing about, will be taken seriously.

@quietnightmare

We are moving as a society to believe women who make these allegations and it's for the male to prove otherwise where as before it was for the female to prove these allegations.

This is not at all how the law works. Not even close.

And is part of the reason charges and convictions for sex offences are so low, because the burden of proof is on the victim and not the offender due to the basis of innocent until proven guilty.

As a PP said:

We all went to school. We all know how boys behaved and if we said they had sexually assaulted us, they'd deny it till they were blue in the face because they really believed what they did was ok.

My ds was accused of another horrific "crime" racism.

Imagine feeling the need to use quotation marks when describing racism as a crime.

Jesus Christ.

I feel very sad as one PP mentioned to protect our boys then tell them to do literally nothing with a girl until they are 16. Even with consent. That just makes me feel really sad that a boy can’t put his arm around a girl to console her if she is crying, or hold out his arms to give her a hug.

Yes it is very sad that due to the fact so many men and boys have sexually assaulted so many women, males are now having to change their behaviour even if they are innocent.

It's also sad females have to change their behaviour in an attempt to avoid being assaulted or raped and to avoid being told that if they are, they were at least partly to blame.

It's not a race to the bottom but while both males and females are having to moderate their behaviour as a result of VAWG, the fault doesn't lie with the female of the species.

And before someone adds a NAMALT. Not all men and boys, no. But it's almost always men and boys.

I suspect your son is very confused about consent OP because you are. It’s obvious from your posts. There is no such thing as ‘implied’ consent when it comes to sex. You should have told your son to look for ‘enthusiastic’ consent.
You wanted advice- educate yourself to safeguard your son and any girls he comes into contact with.
I had a friend who would ask me when I was upset ‘ Do you want a hug? That’s consent.

How is he lying?

Hi OP;

I have been in a similar situation before as in the same position as your son so I know how it feels! I would just like to start by saying the people on here who are attacking you and your dear son over a potential false accusation (with unclear details) really need to take a good look at themselves first before attacking complete strangers who they have never met before!

The first thing I would advise you to do is pray about it! That’s what I did and everything has become wayyyyy better since!

Secondly I would advise you to challenge the school and get your son to challenge the school as well. I would advise you use empirical logic to directly challenge their way of thinking and of course their illogical procedure! So I would advise you to ask them questions like how can you exclude my son without any evidence? What evidence have you got? Also it is important to note without any probable reason and without an official physical letter in writing to you; outlining the reasons as to why your son is being excluded; legally speaking they can’t exclude your son as it is illegal for them to do without 1) proper reasoning 2) an official physical letter to you explaining why your son has been excluded. If none have been given to you I would suggest making a formal complaint against this action and against the member of faculty responsible for this action specifically outlining the illegality of the decision to exclude your son without proper reasoning, evidence or the exclusion letter. If this part is true and the school hasn’t provided you with all of these requirements in order to legally exclude your son; contact your local authority (LADO) and make an official complaint with them about the case and see if action can be taken officially. I would also contact OFSTED and if it’s a private school the ISI as well.

Ask the school what part of their exclusion and student discipline policy your sons exclusion relates to and ask them to pinpoint to you what exact clause in the policy allows them to make the decision to exclude your beloved son!

I would then send my son in to school anyway and be there with him ready to challenge any member of faculty who is against you.

Ask to speak to the girl directly and make sure her parents know what their daughter is up to!

You need to ask for your school as well to release all files they have of your son to you.

Ask them if this girl has made similar accusations. Also ask for what has actually happened and demand a meeting with the principal of the school; make sure you and your son, and any other relevant party (such as your husband etc) are present. Directly ask the principal what has happened, what your son stands accused of, who is the girl making the accusation, what lead the school to make such a decision of exclusion, ask them to pinpoint the exact clause in the policy as to why the school is allowed to exclude your son. ask if it’s normal policy for children to be excluded. Ask when your son gets to make his defence; also ask if the accusation is false what compensation will your son get for being excluded?

Say if your son has not done what he is accused of doing (false accusation) you oppose their decision of exclusion regardless of whether is is legal for them to do or not; and you will be making a formal complaint against the principal and you demand that the principal and whoever else in charge of hurting and humiliating your son are not allowed to have any contact to do with him or yourselves until the formal complaint against them is resolved how you like it to be. Also ask since an accusation against the principal is being made does that mean they are excluded while it is being investigated?

Make sure to make a counter-claim against that girl who falsely accused your son of false accusations and bring in the evidence of false accusations which that girl made against your son.

Get people to back-up your son and even witnesses to give true testimony in support of your son to permanently discredit the vicious lies of that girl.

Don’t worry with God’s Help we can prove your son innocent and put that lying, selfish girl in her place!!!!

WTF?

@Luca1 - this is the most terrifying thing I've ever read on here, you are an extremely dangerous individual.

False allegations can result in criminal proceedings against the woman making the allegation. They are very rare, however nonconsensual touching etc is not rare. As a youth worker its something we do a lot of work on with young people looking at what is informed consent (yes doesn't always mean yes and the nuances around this. ) I do think schools should be doing more to promote this type of education for young people and I think there's been an upsurge in awareness amongst young women especially that it's ok to speak up if something happens that they aren't OK with and they're more informed in consent and boundaries etc. I personally find young men aren't as tuned in.

If nothing can be proven then it'll likely become a case of he said she said, but you need to have a conversation with your son to make sure he understands this going forward and the power that he holds as a male and how this can be perceived by his female counterparts. I've seen lots of caseswhere things have happened that the boy thought was innocent enough but the girl was tuned in enough to recognise as being sexually inappropriate. The school will investigate, if they cannot prove wrong doing then I can't see them penalising your son but might be best they are kept separate or some mediation work is done separately then together if she is willing and open to this. Unfortunately nothing can fully protect anyone (make or female) from false allegations in life but they are extremely rare. Is it possible that they have both perceived the same situation in different ways so both feel they are telling the truth?

@Luca1 I take it you've never worked in safeguarding. The schools actions are correct and appropriate in this scenario. If an allegation of harm or violence of any nature was raised against any pupil they would temporarily be removed in order to protect the rest of the student body (and that pupil themselves if they cannot act safely in the school environment).

Comments like yours are exactly why victims of sexual assault or abuse often don't speak up at all, we know that statistically false allegations are very rare (much rarer than those going unreported to police for example) so your advice is actually harmful to quite literally everyone involved as it serves to interrupt the schools investigation and safeguarding processes.

I'm not judging one way or another in regards to ops sons involvement in any wrongdoing but it is right and fair that any complaint of this nature is investigated fully so that ops son can either be cleared fully and can move on or educated to do better in future depending on the outcome and what they find.

This is so difficult OP.

It simply is not true that girls (or boys) are always telling the truth in these situations. To state anything different is unfair and unhelpful.

I know of more than one case where a girl's accusations have been proved and / or admitted to being made up.

I also know of more cases where the accusations were deemed to be true.

So, although it is true to say that statistically the person reporting the incident more likely to be telling the truth, it is not true that this is always the case. Anyone commenting with a blind 'he's guilty' comment is being unhelpful and biased.

Throwing the blame at every single accused boy isn't fair. People seem to think that this is acceptable given the awful amount of abuse experienced by girls in schools. But it isn't ok. Innocent boys deserve to be recognised as such and supported.

If this is being investigated by experienced and trained staff at your son's school then they will be aware of this and their investigations will take it into account.

Given that it is a serious allegation it is appropriate that your son is asked to stay at home until things have been investigated. This should be done swiftly and you and your son should be kept updated at all times. Hopefully the school will have a policy that you can see which sets out how this will be done and the timescales involved.

If you feel that things aren't being done properly then my suggestion would be to contact the police and ask for their advice. Incidentally, if the school have cause to believe that abuse has taken place they also should be contacting the police.

I sounds like your son has submitted a written account of what happened. If you haven't already I'd suggest that you try to have a detailed and honest chat with him about anything else that might be relevant- no matter how uncomfortable that is for him or you. There may be some things that are relevant that he feels are private or embarrassing, but if he has done nothing wrong then he should be prepared to talk about them.

For example, if there have been any text conversations, verbal chats, or incidents of kissing, touching or contact these will be relevant. Providing they were consensual and both parties were happy then all these things are normal and healthily for young people. In the context of investigations like this your son should know that providing enthusiastic consent was given he shouldn't be ashamed or feel the need to hide this stuff. He is not going to be in trouble for any healthy normal teenage behaviour as long as both parties were consenting.

Having said the above I want to clarify that regardless of any history of enthusiastic consent that doesn't give any kind of green light for other things to happen going forward.

I've namechanged for this for obvious reasons.

This is such a complicated thing. I am firmly of the 'believe what women say' camp, and we need to find a way to bring more men to justice.

But to say that false accusation never happen isn't true either. Teenagers have no idea of the implications of what they say if they make these accusations. To say that a girl will know 'what trouble she will be' in if she makes a false accusation is simply not true. Because there isn't a way to prove she has made a false accusation in almost all cases. She won't be the one that is ostracised and has rumours about her follow her. (for the record - quite rightly so - nobody should fear the consequences of accusing someone of something if it's true)

But it's WAY more complicated than an open and shut 'sorry your son did it, false accusations never happen'. Because they do.

Its also not true to say 'if he hasn't done anything wrong there is nothing to fear'. Because there IS.

My DS was accused of rape at 15. he had to undergo a recorded police interview in a police station with a lawyer. And me. I had to listen to the detail of the girl's accusation, and the detailed description by my son of when he had been intimate with this girl, the conversations they had had, and the consent he had sought, down to the moment. (no mother wants to hear this). I can tell you that he didn't do what she accused him of - but that's of interest to me and not you - but clearly this case was never going anywhere because there were no witnesses. Even if she had spoken the truth it would have gone nowhere. My DS had this hanging over his head for three months until they finally said there was no evidence - which is a bittersweet exhonaration.

I won't tell you her story, but it she was a very complicated person and had form for using accusations to seek attention. She caused my DS a great deal of pain by manipulating him, and his councillor and the pastoral care lead at school had previously used the phrase 'controlling and coercive' about the long litany of her behaviour. This girl has had no consequences for her actions. She isn't ostracised socially (like my son) she hasn't lost all her friends (like my son), nobody has spoken to her in any terms about the pain she has caused my son (who would do that - she's left school for college, her parents aren't going to, its not the police's job, her social worker has more pressing things to do). Social services had to be involved with us because they were both underage at the time - and the report they wrote for my son leaves no doubt in my mind as they had to speak with her too. it contains the phrase 'coercive control' about her behaviour too, and describes what he has been through in no uncertain terms, and advice on seeking help and counselling for the trauma of what he has been through.

I had my DS in tears the other week and he is traumatised because her younger sibling still attends his school and their friends called out 'rapist' as he went past in school. Imagine that happening to your DS!

It really upsets me that this girl has abused women's hard won right (that I have fought for!) to be believed when they say something like this has happened. No idea what the solution is, but we must continue to find a way to believe girls

Ds2 was accused of groping a girl when he was 13. Luckily for him there was cctv footage to show that the "grope" was his bag brushing against her as he walked past in a crowded corridor. Even luckier the school acted quickly so it was sorted out within the day.

False allegations may be rare but they do happen.

@Luca1

Ask to speak to the girl directly and make sure her parents know what their daughter is up to!

I don't believe any adult believes this is actually something that would be possible, due to safeguarding.

Safeguarding? The same safeguarding which is throwing out this kid from school for what baseless accusations suddenly cares about kids livelihoods when the same kids are the ones causing the issues in the first place?

Lol, no they bloody well are not.

False accusations are running at less than half of one per cent

Every single woman I know has been assaulted - conviction rate for rape (not assault) less than 6% of reported/prosecuted rapes

I'm not sure people on here understand fucking maths as they let emotion get in the way

False allegations are not rare amongst teens. I am in the tending to believe camp too and very aware of the woeful rape conviction rate and prevalence of sexual harassment but a girl made up some dreadful allegations against my Dd (both 13). Nearly destroyed her life at school. The girl admitted later it was all utter lies - she was bored. I wouldn’t want any son of mine anywhere near that absolute dangerous nutter.