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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Allegations against teenage boy

183 replies

Ginistheanswer80 · 05/07/2022 15:12

Please can I sense check with you all about a situation my DS (15) is experiencing.

He has been accused of inappropriate touching at school but has denied this and I completely believe him. I won’t be going into the details here as I’m not seeking opinions on this. School are looking into this and he is excluded for now until they finish their investigation.

School mentioned there was another allegation the week before (different girl and boy) and it made me think….how often is this happening?

I know every allegation needs to be taken seriously and rigorously looked at, but it got me wondering how prolific is this, and how many of these allegations are false/unfounded?

Anyone with any insights or experience I would love to hear from you. I’m going crazy here waiting for meetings and outcomes and feel helpless. Thank you

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 05/07/2022 18:38

RedPlumbob · 05/07/2022 18:17

Yes, it does. Because too many men get away with this shit, with no consequences at all, either legal or social.

Show quote history

But if you believe girls "regardless every time" then you are giving girls a weapon to use against anyone they don't like/want to bully/whatever. To get attention, to hurt another girl, to avoid doing their homework - whatever.

The idea that teenage girls are perfectly nice and would never ever lie or manipulate others is sexist in itself. Sugar and spice? Hmm.

When there's an allegation it should be fairly and properly investigated. You can't favour one person over the other on the basis of their sex. That's a dangerous overcorrection.

RedPlumbob · 05/07/2022 18:44

beastlyslumber · 05/07/2022 18:38

But if you believe girls "regardless every time" then you are giving girls a weapon to use against anyone they don't like/want to bully/whatever. To get attention, to hurt another girl, to avoid doing their homework - whatever.

The idea that teenage girls are perfectly nice and would never ever lie or manipulate others is sexist in itself. Sugar and spice? Hmm.

When there's an allegation it should be fairly and properly investigated. You can't favour one person over the other on the basis of their sex. That's a dangerous overcorrection.

Show quote history

Well, I’ve some news for you. For our entire history, men have been believed over women. They still are. Every. Single. Time.

And that shit stops, now.

Blue4YOU · 05/07/2022 18:45

Proven guilty only exists in criminal court ffs.
Innocent until proven guilty is a position adopted in criminal court.
Neither pertain in internal investigations- it is the balance of probabilities- a much lower threshold to reach.
Thus - if the girl is deemed to have told an account that is “more probable than not” she will be considered to have been assaulted.
IT IS NOT INNOCENT Until PROVEN GUILTY outside of court.
ps - my rage comes from being the woman raising the assault and being disbelieved

SingingInParadise · 05/07/2022 18:47

Ginistheanswer80 · 05/07/2022 17:30

Some really savage messages.
Of course I know what’s been accused, I’m just not sharing details on here with you all as it would not be appropriate.
I have been told the girl is being supported as per the school policy. Of course I would consider her but he is my boy.
And implied consent is a thing. If a person leans into outstretched arms for a hug they are implying they consent to a hug. I work in healthcare. If a patient holds out their arm for a blood test they are implying they are consenting to a needle in the arm. They don’t get to go back and say they were assaulted because they didn’t consent.

Thats not quite true.

The consent is implied up to a point. It only works if there has been an a discussion about what the treatment will be.

Bonkerz · 05/07/2022 18:56

Can we confirm we that I am not talking about rape. That's horrendous and as a mum to boys and girls the whole situation is horrific.

I'm specifically talking about boys pinching bums or grabbing boobs etc in a school setting or girls who accuse boys of such behaviour when it's simply not true...... these girls don't 'go through hell' in the follow up. But it's happening way too much that boys are accused and it tarnished them.

For me it's on par with someone arguing with a man and calling him a 'peado' or 'nonce' when nothing of the sort is true. Mud sticks and too many times I've seen the accuser laughing away while the accused is left to deal with the judgement without cause.

Covidagainandagain · 05/07/2022 18:56

beastlyslumber · 05/07/2022 18:38

But if you believe girls "regardless every time" then you are giving girls a weapon to use against anyone they don't like/want to bully/whatever. To get attention, to hurt another girl, to avoid doing their homework - whatever.

The idea that teenage girls are perfectly nice and would never ever lie or manipulate others is sexist in itself. Sugar and spice? Hmm.

When there's an allegation it should be fairly and properly investigated. You can't favour one person over the other on the basis of their sex. That's a dangerous overcorrection.

Show quote history

The school is investigating it, so there's no issue there then is there?

And only 1 in 6 rapes of women are reported and only and only 1 in 100 resulted in a charge in 2021, when there were 67,125 rapes reported.

So yeah, I think we are a bit far off 'giving girls a weapon'

Blue4YOU · 05/07/2022 18:57

And I love how the debate about stopping sexual assault becomes “girls lie too”/boys lives can be ruined and “do we always have to believe the girl”..,
No one has to “believe” anything without investigation.
what should not happen is what the OP is doing- looking for public support for her view that he is innocent based on how he can prove that.
He can’t “prove” he didn’t do something in a he said/she said situation. Like every woman who has reported sexual assault, he can hope he will be believed if he is telling the truth.

Frequency · 05/07/2022 19:12

I've experienced it from the other side. My DD was the accuser. Sadly, if my experience is anything to go by the OP's son hs nothing to worry about. Society and authority are still very much on the side of the man accused.

DD didn't feel able to press charges despite the support of the police who were witness to the fact she was too intoxicated to consent. The school initially removed the boy from her classes but after kickback from his mother backtracked so as not to spoil his education.

DD recieved death threats from her peers and ended up leaving school with no qualifications and severe anxiety, despression and PTSD.

The rapist didn't recieve the help he needed as society and his parents supported him to rape. He went to rape one more girl and attempt to rape a third.

Do better OP. False accusations are vanishingly rare. You need to teach you son his behaviour is not acceptable and will not be tolereated.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 05/07/2022 19:14

I think the hug example is not helpful. A person would not be excluded for putting their arm around someone's shoulder and then it turns our they did not really want that.

Your son I believe has been accused of something much more sexual. It is much easier to draw boundaries around sexual things as you do not touch people's private, talk about them, talk about sex or talk about your own privates. These are all pretty clear boundaries.

In terms of Apart from getting written consent from a girl, how can a boy protect himself from this sort of accusation? it's respect all the way. This is no 100% a guarantee but the more respect you have for people the less likely you are to put yourself in a situation where you are doing something they don't want. Plus that makes it feel much more natural to check out that they DO want something before you do it.

I can't say whether your son did this. He might not have done but also you thinking he didn't doesn't really add much evidence as so many mums don't get the problems their kids are causing. I can say though that shit as it is to be excluded whilst something is investigated (It really is I know) the alternative is worse - as it will mean fewer girls feeling able to report the assaults they suffer. I would help your son see this as the response which a civilised society makes and understand that it is male aggression and entitlement which has put him in this position even if he did not do anything himself. He can then grow into a force for good rather than evil. Concentrating just on seeing him is not helpful even if it is understandable.

RedPlumbob · 05/07/2022 19:19

Bonkerz · 05/07/2022 18:56

Can we confirm we that I am not talking about rape. That's horrendous and as a mum to boys and girls the whole situation is horrific.

I'm specifically talking about boys pinching bums or grabbing boobs etc in a school setting or girls who accuse boys of such behaviour when it's simply not true...... these girls don't 'go through hell' in the follow up. But it's happening way too much that boys are accused and it tarnished them.

For me it's on par with someone arguing with a man and calling him a 'peado' or 'nonce' when nothing of the sort is true. Mud sticks and too many times I've seen the accuser laughing away while the accused is left to deal with the judgement without cause.

It’s still sexual assault. How can you not grasp that?

I was at a private girls school for secondary, until midway through Y9, when I was moved to a state co ed. Within one week, I’d had my boobs grabbed, my bum slapped, and someone tried to shove their fingers inside my pants. I was fucking traumatised, yes. I reported it; nothing happened.

That shit continued all the way through. If a staff member saw it, they’d roll their eyes.

I’m in my mid 30s.

ClaireEclair · 05/07/2022 19:23

I was sexually assaulted several times by different boys at my school in the 90s. Some I used to consider to be my friends and who I thought were typically nice boys. Went to a teacher after one incident and their solution was to sit us apart in class. It only stopped when I asked a male friend I could trust and he intervened by threatening the others. I don’t doubt that this still happens all the time and I fear for my niece.

bcc89 · 05/07/2022 19:24

OP wants to compare it to a hug as she wants to minimise what her son did.

Covidagainandagain · 05/07/2022 19:30

Bonkerz · 05/07/2022 18:56

Can we confirm we that I am not talking about rape. That's horrendous and as a mum to boys and girls the whole situation is horrific.

I'm specifically talking about boys pinching bums or grabbing boobs etc in a school setting or girls who accuse boys of such behaviour when it's simply not true...... these girls don't 'go through hell' in the follow up. But it's happening way too much that boys are accused and it tarnished them.

For me it's on par with someone arguing with a man and calling him a 'peado' or 'nonce' when nothing of the sort is true. Mud sticks and too many times I've seen the accuser laughing away while the accused is left to deal with the judgement without cause.

You mean sexual assault. When boys are pinching bums and grabbing boobs, thats sexual assault. Why are you minimising that?

Eggsinthemorning · 05/07/2022 19:30

WHY ON EARTH would I be mad at my son ?????? Right !

quietnightmare · 05/07/2022 19:30

Frequency · 05/07/2022 19:12

I've experienced it from the other side. My DD was the accuser. Sadly, if my experience is anything to go by the OP's son hs nothing to worry about. Society and authority are still very much on the side of the man accused.

DD didn't feel able to press charges despite the support of the police who were witness to the fact she was too intoxicated to consent. The school initially removed the boy from her classes but after kickback from his mother backtracked so as not to spoil his education.

DD recieved death threats from her peers and ended up leaving school with no qualifications and severe anxiety, despression and PTSD.

The rapist didn't recieve the help he needed as society and his parents supported him to rape. He went to rape one more girl and attempt to rape a third.

Do better OP. False accusations are vanishingly rare. You need to teach you son his behaviour is not acceptable and will not be tolereated.

Horrendous. I hope your DD stays strong. There are no words

Original poster
Ginistheanswer80 · 05/07/2022 19:32

Ok I’m going to stop responding apart from to say this - I was not seeking public ‘support’ I was asking for advice on what I should do as a parent, to support her child. There is no advice out there for people in my shoes. I am not to know if the school are handling this appropriately or potentially making a hash of it for both the alleged victim and my son. Whatever the outcome, my most important job as his parent is to safeguard my son and protect him from harm. Male suicide in this age group is 3 times higher than female suicide and this terrifies me as he has made two significant attempts on his life last year.

The parent of the alleged victim will be doing the same I’m sure, protecting her child from harm. But she won’t be needing to ask for help and advice because it’s already all out there.

I believe my child and I know him better than all of you. I know the situation and you don’t.

I appreciate the posts that have been practical and to everyone who has shared their experiences of being on this ‘side’, thank you. I certainly was not asking for support or validation. I was putting scenarios out there for discussion (more fool me).

I would be grateful for any signposting to any advisory websites or organisations for practical advice. Perhaps I should of spelt that out at the start, but I was not expecting such a savage, judgemental witch hunt to happen.

OP posts:
quietnightmare · 05/07/2022 19:37

Ginistheanswer80 · 05/07/2022 19:32

Ok I’m going to stop responding apart from to say this - I was not seeking public ‘support’ I was asking for advice on what I should do as a parent, to support her child. There is no advice out there for people in my shoes. I am not to know if the school are handling this appropriately or potentially making a hash of it for both the alleged victim and my son. Whatever the outcome, my most important job as his parent is to safeguard my son and protect him from harm. Male suicide in this age group is 3 times higher than female suicide and this terrifies me as he has made two significant attempts on his life last year.

The parent of the alleged victim will be doing the same I’m sure, protecting her child from harm. But she won’t be needing to ask for help and advice because it’s already all out there.

I believe my child and I know him better than all of you. I know the situation and you don’t.

I appreciate the posts that have been practical and to everyone who has shared their experiences of being on this ‘side’, thank you. I certainly was not asking for support or validation. I was putting scenarios out there for discussion (more fool me).

I would be grateful for any signposting to any advisory websites or organisations for practical advice. Perhaps I should of spelt that out at the start, but I was not expecting such a savage, judgemental witch hunt to happen.

Accused.me.uk just came up on a quick google search. Just wondering is your son upset? Worried? not bothered? Panicking? Not taking about it? that's a good indicator the truth

Grumpybutfunny · 05/07/2022 19:39

As grown woman think of your childhood, in school I had my rear slapped, hugged and cat called. I found it funny and almost a complement, sure some of the boys got told no chance. Now as a 31 mum of a boy, would I want any of the boys I told to get a life to have faced accusations, suspension and even facing a police record for touching my rear. Would I hell we were all teenagers heck I wore the shortest skirt possible to encourage it.

Boys and girls need to learn boundaries and how to signal what you want/intend. That isn't going to be plain sailing and yes some mistakes are going to be made but they need the kids involved sitting down and it explaining not the kids being treat as adults who should have known better.

Blue4YOU · 05/07/2022 19:40

“Savage witch hunt”???Well then you shouldn’t make blasé remarks about sexual assault allegations if you don’t expect people to have strong views.
There are dozens of organisations that help with mental health issues.
The Samaritans
Mind
CALM
Does the school have a counsellor?
There are private counselling services that can be done online or in person.
He - and you - don’t have to be alone.

Fe345fleur · 05/07/2022 19:41

"...but it got me wondering how prolific is this, and how many of these allegations are false/unfounded?"

Sorry you are going through this OP. To answer your original question, my answers are 'very' and 'probably a few, but probably a very small proportion'. My first answer is based on all the accounts of sexual assault in schools collected by Everyone's Invited. The second answer is based on how few sexual assaults are actually reported to the police, never mind convictions secured. Victim blaming plays a part in this. There are bound to be some girls who make false allegations, but overall there doesn't seem to be much incentive to lie.

sineadteh · 05/07/2022 19:42

I know every allegation needs to be taken seriously and rigorously looked at, but it got me wondering how prolific is this, and how many of these allegations are false/unfounded?

It's very bloody common. Inappropriate touching and more. Of course you don't think your son has done it, that doesn't mean it's not true.

MsTSwift · 05/07/2022 19:42

I would want to establish the truth. I used to do divorce law a million years ago and would feel so sorry for the poor men - until I got the particulars from the other side…I would want to hear what the girl had to say and what evidence there was. This might be hard for you.

Blue4YOU · 05/07/2022 19:43

And as for the remark OP makes about the girl/alleged victim having access to support because “it’s all out there already” is so low and a vile bitchy comment.
I was sexually assaulted and I got absolutely fuck all from anyone except PTSD for my efforts at defending myself

quietnightmare · 05/07/2022 19:44

Blue4YOU · 05/07/2022 19:43

And as for the remark OP makes about the girl/alleged victim having access to support because “it’s all out there already” is so low and a vile bitchy comment.
I was sexually assaulted and I got absolutely fuck all from anyone except PTSD for my efforts at defending myself

Awful to read this. Well done for defending yourself

Covidagainandagain · 05/07/2022 19:44

Blue4YOU · 05/07/2022 19:43

And as for the remark OP makes about the girl/alleged victim having access to support because “it’s all out there already” is so low and a vile bitchy comment.
I was sexually assaulted and I got absolutely fuck all from anyone except PTSD for my efforts at defending myself

Completely agree!

Besides which for all the op's protests of 'I just wanted advice' what she actually kept asking was how many girls make false allegations