Suitable punishment for lying about where she is

[jackstini]

Dd is 15 (16 in March)

Few weeks ago we had an issue with her being out in a city, then a park until about 11 then stayed at a friend's house, where we've let her stay before

Issue is she had told us she was at a different friend's and only admitted where she had been when really pushed (& I had screenshots of her phone location)

We grounded her for a couple of weeks (ended up being 3 as she caught Covid)

She's gone to a friend's tonight, for a Halloween sleepover. Her phone says she's there but a friend of mine thinks she's just seen her in a tram going into town

Not answering phone (although iPhone says it is at friend's house) Best friend not answering hers either. Mum at the house she's staying at not answering text

Ideas please on WWYD now...

@hibye123

Mine would not need permission. At 15 I would have been happy for DD to go into town with friends when on a sleepover. That said she would have dropped me a text to let me know because we have always had very open communication.

Exactly. She wouldn't need your permission but the OP has stated her daughter was to let her know if they were going out yet she didn't. It's simple really but people are going way over the top for some reason.
If I went to a sleepover at that age and my mum thought I'd be indoors the whole time but I was really out with my friend and their mum was coming to pick us up. My mum would be livid that she wasn't notified

But she couldn't tell her mum because her dad would go 'nuclear' and she wouldn't be allowed. If she had a relationship like the pp you quoted she would have sent a text.

At this age my Mum was the opposite of this. Rarely said no to me going anywhere - and if she did it was part of w discussion - never tracked, never checked up on me. Helped plan ways for me to be safer, if needed.

She was also the only parent of my friendship group who knew where her child was 100% of the time. I always told her. My friends often lied to their parents.

Perhaps instead of punishment, this might be a chance for you all to sit down, talk about you differing points of view and agree to a new set of behaviours that you all agree with? Help strengthen your relationship rather than fracture it. Like her being honest, perhaps sending one text to confirm she is ok and you being more open to her doing more things, with some guidance on how to stay safe etc.

There is a huge backstory as to why the DD isn't openly communicating though.

Yeah 100%. I do agree with this. If the OP had said it's no problem if you're going outside just let us know and DD still didn't alert them then there's definitely a bigger issue here. I also think the tracking is a bit much but obviously different parents do different things. I remember my mum used to track my phone and I just used to turn the data off for it so it never worked lol

You’re forcing her to lie because you’re treating her like she’s 12!

I agree with PP, you’ve backed yourself into a corner with an obsession over lies (risky with a teen because they all lie from time to time) and you’ve demonstrated that you will flip out if told the truth- because you’ve flipped out when you discovered it.

I think it’s concerning how ill prepared teens will be for uni/independence if this is the approach!

I had very strict parents and am more liberal with my teen dd as a result. She needs to learn life skills, esp after all the enforced time indoors. And great to do that whilst she’s living f/t at home and I can always collect her etc etc.

It was 8.30, not midnight. The shops are still open in Manchester (if that’s where she was- and same in other cities with the tram I’m sure)

It is the mad parents that have driven the need to lie.

Do you know how many teenagers lie? You think her parents have driven her to lie lol? When I was in school I had so many friends who were so free and could do whatever they want as their parents weren't really bothered, they still lied about their location and loads of other things. As bad as it is lying is really just apart of teenage life, especially when you want to do something your parents won't agree with.

And supporting parents who seek to humiliate their children is horrible.

Who said anything about seeking to humiliate a child? Don't put words in my mouth. If a child is doing something wrong and a parent acts on it is that wrong? Is the parent not meant to say or do anything just because her friends were there I don't get it. She never said she shouted, or she dragged her DD to the car or anything that sounds remotely humiliating. She said 'I was waiting and called her over. Was calm in front of the girls and the mum.' What's humiliating about that except for the fact that the OP went to get her DD which may have been somewhat embarrassing for her

I had this happen to me when I was 15. Stayed over at a friends a couple of miles away. We went to her local pub which was the youngster hangout. Sitting drinking (don't recall if it was alcohol or not) with boys and girls including my boyfriend. I look up and my dad was there - he just said 'you, out, now' and took me home. He had called my friends house and discovered we were out and guessed I was at the hangout pub.

When we got home my dad was briefly furious for the lie and being in pubs underage. Then it became a discussion about safety, honesty, judgement etc. I remember Dad crying at one point as he realised his little girl was growing up and needed more freedom. Mum was there but I seem to recall all the talking being with my dad.

I wasn't grounded. I wasn't told not to go to the pub again. I was told be honest and that I may not get to do everything I ask to do but to ask and things could be discussed. I don't recall us ever having issues about where I went after that. I never lied to them / snuck around again and they understood that I needed to have similar levels of freedom as my friends.

I used to lie to my mum on the odd occasion about who's house I was staying at. I was a good and sensible teen. The only reason is my mum would worry... and I just wanted my freedom. I was not a rebel though and I would always come home when expected.

I would be fucked off if my mother was going through my phone at 15. Its a tricky age OP.

You feel she is young and she is your baby. I think I'm with some of the others though that it's too strict!

Do you expect your DD to not get a little part time job because its dark? Would she not have to go through a busy town centre after work in winter?

Can you see what I'm saying? At 16 I worked out of my home town city centre and would get 4 buses a day and I would finish work quite late and come home when it was dark... my mother had 2 younger children so I had to get the bus.

Yes it's pretty normal teen behaviour

This is all I'm trying to say

If you think however that phone tracking, stalking McDonald's and lying in wait at the tram stop to catch your child out are normal parenting strategies you should probably review your approach

Where did I say they're normal strategies lol. I already said the phone tracking is extreme. I don't see anything wrong with waiting at the Tram Stop to catch their DD out but I think it's the fact there's already history of lying about location which adds to this. So because it's pretty normal behaviour for a teenager to lie, their actions should go without consequences/punishments?

There is always value in being the house the kids want to go to, not the one they want to escape from. I've always said to my DC I hope I'm the one they call when they are in trouble.

@traka

I love the posters that always have to pipe up and say when I was that age I was doing this.

Times have changed

A child will rebel regardless though. So it doesn't really matter. The overly strict approach often doesn't work. My mum's friends parents did this. Mum's friend fell pregnant really young.

It depends on your child's personality I mean does OPS dd really warrant tracking? What did parents do before tracking? They managed just fine.

@Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow yes agree.

Sorry, went to bed, not that I slept much

FWIW for those wondering, the city is Nottingham
We've let her go shopping there, cinema, golf, bowling, skating, meals etc. lots of times, including evenings
She was there earlier this week for a friend's 16th and then sleptover, no problem

The issue was the lying, and yes we probably were concerned as Saturday night before Halloween can be a bit crazy in town

@AlexaShutUp - I thought we did have a trusting relationship before the lying a month ago (@saraclara and it was past 11pm that time!) but I get that we need to re-discuss boundaries. I want her to be safe of course, but still to have fun. I know she will make mistakes and hopefully learn from them - that's life

@MultiStorey - it's not really a 'series of incidents' it's 2. One 4 weeks ago & one last night

@bigbeatmanifesto @MangoIce - it's not a specific tracker, it's just 'find my iPhone' - we can all see each others

@Lindy2 - DH didn't tun up to mad at dd or the mum. I just picked her up from the local tram stop when they got back. DH was at home with ds

@BananaPB - she said she left her phone at friend's as bayyer was dead so it was on charge...

@Choux @ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba @Notjustanymum @SpinachIsAGatewayDrug (& others I have probably missed) - they all sound like good questions/conversations and ones I want to have with her later

@BunNCheese - I did too! I'm not daft. She is looking at getting a saturday job at the moment and I think that will be good for her. I had one at 15 and got the bus

I really do appreciate all your comments and thank you to those that shared your experiences. I love her to bits and do want her to be happy and enjoy her teenage years

Why can you not trust her?
(Saying 'because she lied' is not an acceptable answer - she lies because of your anticipated responses/reactions, you gave her no choice)

Is she sensible most of the time?
Does she respect herself and others?
Does she usually do the right thing?

If so, let her 'go'.
You know the saying - let them go and they will come back. Prisoners try to escape. Think about it, OP and DH. You are the problem here, not DD.
And yes, you have shamed her and punished her enough already.

You say your not silly. BUT you want to think of multiple punishment lasting weeks and you want to make your DD come with you every where... she is not a toddler.

Personally she had her punishment when YOU MADE HER COME home. You've overreacted massively

Good luck OP.

she needs to tell us if she's going anywhere and send pics'

Send pics, why? To prove that she is where she says she is?

Those of you who think it is appropriate to be in a city centre at 8p on a Saturday night at 15, what activities do you think are available?

They were ending the night and coming home at that time. I don't yet have any teens, but that doesn't sound like particularly risky behaviour to me.

Reading this thread brought back the feelings of anxiety I used to get when my parents used to do this kind of crap. They were had this thing about wanting to catch me out and I found what you said about your DD looking 'scared shitless' upsetting.
Why do you want her to be/ feel scared of you?

I was also teased in school "Ooh, don't let Daddy know!" etc after being humiliated in front of friends by my parents. And then they wondered why I refused to stay on at school for 6th form!

As previous posters have said, you surely want her to be able to call you if she's made a mistake and found herself in a dangerous situation? There's no way she going to feel able to do that.

She really doesn't need (or deserve!) any more punishment, you've done enough.

@WaltzingBetty

So you have a smart, generally good kid who has recently resorted to hiding things from you and your response is not to wonder why but to go nuclear *@jackstini* ?

How strict are you and DH generally?
Is she lying because you're giving her no freedom? Is she naive because she's been overprotected?

In a couple of years she'll be essentially adult, how are you supporting her in developing independence and becoming an adult ?

This. Have you thought that the reason she's lying is because you arnt giving her any freedom and your Dh that goes mental will make her keep secrets from you. Grounding her won't do any good as you have now seen as she's just done it again ! All that will do is make her hate you. You need to sit down with her and talk to her about a compromise you can come to an agreement that she gets more freedom and in in turn she is is honest an keeps you updated where she is ! Coming down heaving handed is the worst thing you can do. Think about the relationship you want with your daughter in the future. It's easy to panic and want to shout and scream and ground her but intimately it won't get you anywhere it will actually make it worse.

@jackstini

Sorry, went to bed, not that I slept much

FWIW for those wondering, the city is Nottingham
We've let her go shopping there, cinema, golf, bowling, skating, meals etc. lots of times, including evenings
She was there earlier this week for a friend's 16th and then sleptover, no problem

The issue was the lying, and yes we probably were concerned as Saturday night before Halloween can be a bit crazy in town

@AlexaShutUp - I thought we did have a trusting relationship before the lying a month ago (@saraclara and it was past 11pm that time!) but I get that we need to re-discuss boundaries. I want her to be safe of course, but still to have fun. I know she will make mistakes and hopefully learn from them - that's life

@MultiStorey - it's not really a 'series of incidents' it's 2. One 4 weeks ago & one last night

@bigbeatmanifesto @MangoIce - it's not a specific tracker, it's just 'find my iPhone' - we can all see each others

@Lindy2 - DH didn't tun up to mad at dd or the mum. I just picked her up from the local tram stop when they got back. DH was at home with ds

@BananaPB - she said she left her phone at friend's as bayyer was dead so it was on charge...

@Choux @ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba @Notjustanymum @SpinachIsAGatewayDrug (& others I have probably missed) - they all sound like good questions/conversations and ones I want to have with her later

@BunNCheese - I did too! I'm not daft. She is looking at getting a saturday job at the moment and I think that will be good for her. I had one at 15 and got the bus

I really do appreciate all your comments and thank you to those that shared your experiences. I love her to bits and do want her to be happy and enjoy her teenage years

I also live in Nottingham, totally agree with everything you have said and done. No way would I let my daughter go into town at that time at 15, she's older now and a young adult, she obviously does go now as well as clubbing but my heart is always in my mouth until she's home.

We've always told her it's about earning trust and being respectful and honest. We used to compromise at times but always had our boundaries.

Hope you can work it all out, it's so hard being a parent.

You grounded her before, it didn't work - she lied again, so why ground her again? You need to talk to her about how you worry about her and why. Tell her how important it is for you to be able to trust her. Please stop tracking her location and checking her phone, you are creating an environment where she feels she has to lie. You need to work on building mutual trust not working out how to punish her.

Why does she feel the need to lie? But as she has lied several times, she has to accept that she’s lost your trust.

@jackstini
You sound lovely and I’m sorry you’ve been given a bit of a hard time on here by me and others.

I understand your concerns, I really do.
Work ‘with’ your DD, not against her xx

She assumed you would say no, so she left her phone at friends place to get around you finding out.

The lying is one thing however the leaving phone would be the thing that concerned me.

Picking her up in front of her friends and taking her home, was humiliating for her.

Your DH going 'nuclear' will not be helpful!

She is 15. Punishments at this age will not work. Clearly grounding hasn't.

Some advice from my mum she gave me about my teen daughter.
'All her life she has been a caterpillar, she is now finding herself, allow her to be a butterfly on a kite, pull that string too tight it will snap, all control will be lost. Allow her to believe that string is loose, she will stay close'

This has been the best advice my mum ever gave me. Show her you trust her, make her believe you trust her wholeheartedly. She will most likely be so open with you. It means she will not be sneaking off, she will not be leaving her phone so you cannot track her. Tell her yes when she asks to go out with no restrictions apart from 'would be good if you don't stay out late, you know I worry'
My daughter doesn't have a curfew, but I know she will be back at a decent hour, not because she wants to leave her friends but she has learned to respect me. She checks in with me now so I don't worry.

What I would do now is seem like you are more concerned with why she lied. Ask her calmly and listen. Then show her you understand. We were all teenagers once. Tell her a story of when you were younger and you were not behaved. Tell her you understand and tell her you will loosen up but it works 2 ways. You will loosen up if she is open with you.

This has worked with me. I know I will not know every aspect of my daughters social life, but I know she now has the respect to ket me know where she is, when she is moving on. She also texts me now when she is on her way home and will let me know roughly how long it will take.

I may be naive and this may stop working, but for now it is working perfectly.

Honestly, I’m surprised as some answers in this thread.

I, as a grown up adult, have been feeling quite uncomfortable in town centres at 8.30pm on a Friday or Saturday. I’ve been accosted by men and couldn’t get rid of them amongst a lot of other undesirable behaviours from drunks (or not so drunk) men. Some group of men can be frightening tbh.

So I’d be uncomfortable to see my dd on her own in that sort if environment, let alone without a phone!

@TravelLost

She was with a group of friends!