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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

I cant do it anymore. DS14 is destroying me

233 replies

Dumbledorker · 20/06/2020 01:59

I cant even find the words to write how bad it is. Im scared this is relentless and there is no way out of this ongoing hell with him. How do you deal with feeling like you have a sociopathic child who will never change only get worse. Im so scared I will lose him either through him eventually taking his own life because he feels so hated and alone or that in the future I will have to cut ties with him because of how he is. I hate writing this about my own son. He is the sweetest kid at times but when everyone is gone and its just me and him then its different. Its when he cant have his own way he doesnt react like a normal moody teenager its just nasty, physiological abuse.. he will stand for sometimes hours giving me a speech that seems like its out of a play like an actor would talk like... he will sit in my bedroom while I try to sleep until I give in and give him his WiFi privileges or PlayStation. I used to have to just give in so I felt safe but because ive reached out for help in the last few months I've started to regain control and be consistent so things can go on all night and I won't give in to his demands. Tonight its bedtime at 11 as its the weekend. This has led to him refusing and sitting laughing at me in the living room so I gave him a warning and said he has to go to bed or his priviliges (WiFi and ps4) will be taken tomorrow.. he says I have no control and im a shit mum. So I go upstairs and take the console and from there hes tried take it back and then took the hdmi cable out of the back of the TV so I cant watch it when hes in bed. Ive tried to get the cable back and hes dramatically fallen and said ive physically abused him so ive taken the ps4 to the neighbours who is my friend and helps me. I came back and he has locked me out with my little girls still in the house, he picked up a knife gesturing that he's going to kill himself ive rung 999. They have come out and told him he needs to follow my rules under my roof and listen to me. Theyve asked me to keep an eye on him through the night..they referred back to SS again although we are already under the local family hub for support and camhs who have said its behavioural not mental health. He told the officers hes out the knife back and was upset. This is the 3rd time they've come out in 2 weeks. Hes since been downstairs a million times telling me I am no mum to him anymore and he's done with me. He scares his sisters when he's like this i can't have them watching all this anymore. Ive tried so much to help him but im exhausted and broken. I cant possibly write everything that is happening i just need to know if anyone else is like this or if it gets better. Its hell .

OP posts:
madroid · 21/06/2020 11:18

Another question OP - you said
He is openly willing to have an assessment for autism. He came up with a few points himself as to why he thinks he may be on the spectrum

Does he think he's got an illness or condition? Does he think there's something wrong with him? Is he worried about his own behaviour and feelings?

If he does, it puts quite a different light on things.

There's two possibilities - he's either consciously manipulating everyone by using the concept of an illness to excuse himself of all responsibility (or trying to). In this case that is very very worrying.

Or he genuinely does have something (onset of schizophrenia?) that needs medical intervention asap.

Rhinosaurus · 21/06/2020 11:28

@Dumbledorker is it Fortnite he is playing?

I have seen a lot of similar behaviour in children who are addicted to fortnite - the game is designed to be very exciting, over stimulating - and leaving the player wanting more. It also works on the premise it is free, but unless you spend money you can’t get very far on it. This could be putting him into flight/fight mode so he is on a constant high alert with adrenaline being released. The game gets to mean so much to them that anything else and activities in real life seem mundane and boring in comparison. Constant gaming also impedes social development, normalises violence and creates a lack of empathy and reality. There are quite a few articles around on the effects of Fortnite on children and young people.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/12/addictive-video-games-may-change-childrens-brains-way-drugs/

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 21/06/2020 12:00

oh god I hope.he stays there tomorrow too then back at my mums Monday because I just dread him. I absolutely dread his voice and his footsteps just everything right now ... im up again 3rd night in a row so late because I know if I go to sleep that the morning will come quicker

You poor thing. I feel so sorry for you, I know that feeling and it’s awful. SadFlowers

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 21/06/2020 12:37

Those saying that Seaweed’s advice is sanctimonious etc - it’s just looking at it a different way.

All behaviour stems from a feeling, all feelings stem from need, in this case a need not being met. If OP can work out alongside her DS and potentially a counsellor which need of his is not being met, she can better understand whether this is something she can help with or whether he needs are impossible to meet.

If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got. We get into these ingrained patterns of behaviour with difficult people, we play the game where “they always...” and “we always..” so sometimes doing something totally different can yield a different response.

Love bombing is an accepted tool to deal with difficult behaviour and while this case is very extreme, this is still a young boy who is clearly hurting. Writing him off as a psychopath at this point is unfair - leaving his sisters to be hurt and abused by him is also unfair. The idea to maybe have them stay with their dad while the DS gets himself sorted out could have some merit.

Apossibility84 · 21/06/2020 12:39

Op

I think the key messages you must take away from this thread are...

This situation is very very serious.
Your son has very serious mental health and personality problems.
He is causing you extreme stress
You are trying so hard but you need enormous external support, which I am afraid you are going to have to absolutely prioritise pursuing.

Finally and possibly most importantly.
This disturbed child is sharing a home with your daughters. This will be distressing for you to read but I urge you to keep on high alert for signs of sexual abuse.

Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 13:57

@MillionthNameChanger

My brother was violent towards me when I was your DDs age; I wish my mum had made sure I was never left alone with him.

What you've just said about his behaviour towards his sister when he's not in 'nice' mode gives me chills - I ended up being sexually abused by him for years because I was so scared of his physical threats if I said no or said I'd tell someone - I honestly believed he could kill me.

Im so sorry this happened to you SadFlowers
OP posts:
Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 14:02

@TheMotherofAllDilemmas

Hes really kind to his sisters to a point. He will be really nice with them and play with them in the garden on the trampoline but when hes mad he will randomly hurt them like he stood on dd9 back the other week for no reason and then lied about it.

This reminds me so much of something the domestic abuse case worker the police assigned to me told me when I said “he is not that bad, I’m sure if you meet him you would like him”, she replied, “of course he is charming, all abusers are, that’s how they get away with it!”

Don’t fool yourself, you have the responsibility to protect your DDs as well, it doesn’t matter how much he plays with them on the trampoline, you just need him to stick that knife on one of them ONCE to have a tragedy and no amount of happy trampolining is going to erase that.

And he stood on his sister’s back and lied about it, what if he had damaged her spine? Stop protecting him and excusing him, he is your son but the ones that need the protection right now are your DDs. Is there any possibility of sending them to live with their dad while you deal with DS’s issues?

This is the problem because he is genuinely known in the village to be a really sweet polite kid..People comment on how polite and kind he is after they meet him and always have done since he was small. They are shocked when they hear how he is like now.
OP posts:
Apossibility84 · 21/06/2020 14:07

* This is the problem because he is genuinely known in the village to be a really sweet polite kid..People comment on how polite and kind he is*

* It’s not easy to spot a psychopath. They can be intelligent, charming, and good at mimicking emotions. They may pretend to be interested in you, but in reality, they probably don’t care.*

Firstly - OP don’t talk yourself out of how serious this is.

Secondly, try not to tell others (aside from close friends and family) What’s going on. It’s not respectful to him, and it’s not going to help you in any way.

TheMotherofAllDilemmas · 21/06/2020 16:36

This is the problem because he is genuinely known in the village to be a really sweet polite kid..

Exactly, that’s how they get away with it. My ex is the same, he is a psychopath in private and a pilar of society to the general public. Most difficult thing to take the steps to leave him was that NOBODY believed a word when I mentioned how bad he was at home.

When I was with him I thought he had aspergers, but there were some things that didn’t fit that diagnose, he is very manipulative, a compulsive liar that at some point believes his own lies and starts acting as if the lie was the truth, he doesn’t care for anyone but his own benefit, he cannot distinguish between good and evil, whatever serves his purposes is “good” no matter how many people are negatively affected in the process. His emotions are copied from other people.

Nowadays I am pretty convinced he is not in the spectrum that goes from aspergers to autism but the one that goes from narcissism to psychopathy.

This is not necessarily as bad as it may sound, there are plenty of people in respectable positions with those traits. That’s why it is so important that you keep an eye on him, protect your DDs and find the right help for him. Someone said that the home setting defines which way things will go at the end, those in problematic environments tend to end up in jail, those in supportive home environments tend to end in Wall Street.

caringcarer · 21/06/2020 16:51

I am so sorry your son is trying to bully you and is setting such a bad atmosphere for his sister's. I am a foster carer and have seen many children like this. He has sadly lost respect for you and now feels he can say or do anything he pleases. If he was an only child you could plough on and try to ride it out but with two younger children to think of I think you need a break from each other. The constant gaming is making it worse as it can desensitise children. I honestly feel a few months in care where he would feel less sure of himself and weaned of gaming may be what he needs. Are you on your own as you don't mention a partner? It sounds as if he is trying to take control of the house. Get another cable for TV. I would take away the gaming system and put it into storage. He might kick off but you need SS to place him in s home where he is not the alpha male. He needs to learn to show adults respect again. He could come back a whole new person. Good luck op.

TheMotherofAllDilemmas · 21/06/2020 16:53

Ps. I’m really sorry to drop this bombshell in your doorstep, please ignore my last message but keep an eye open just in case. 💐

StrawberryRaven · 21/06/2020 17:26

PS4 is a big issue in this house.

A few weeks ago I finally managed to get my head around the parental settings- booted DS off the master account he was using, password protected it, and set up a fresh child account. I can now completely control his use of it via the PlayStation app. He gets a max of 2 hours a day and within certain time windows (eg after school). The screen shows how much time he has left and it's up to him to manage how he chooses to use it.

Managing it via the app has saved so many arguments- I can add a bit of extra time on as a reward and I can limit it further as a consequence. No more drama trying to physically remove wires or hiding controllers etc- Just the action of me doing these things caused huge meltdowns. Now there's no fuss because he knows there's bugger all he can do about it.

He lost all his progress on Fortnite when I changed the accounts but was happy enough with some money to buy some more skins etc and at the point that I made the changes he was in the middle of a complete ban so was happy to agree to the new time rules just to get it back.

Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 17:33

@madroid

How is he with your mum OP?

I'd be worried that she is going through similar with him but won't say in order to help you and protect you and her dgds.

IF that's not the case and only if, then leave him with her for at least 6 weeks.

You desperately need a break.

Otherwise it's time to hand over to his dad. Whatever the problem there he (dad) needs to sort it.

You must draw the line. For yourself and dds but also your son.

That last post is chilling. He really is top dog atm. Brutally lording it over all of you.

You need to sweep it all away by removing him completely. There are other ppl responsible here and willing to help. You are at the point where everything else is secondary to needing him away from you for a while.

What would happen if you were suddenly ill? Who would take care of your DC? That should happen now. You are at breaking point. Emergency help is needed now.

Do you have any siblings your DS could stay with? Or other family?

I think your DS needs to know you have drawn a line. Not by speaking but by actions.

The issue with his dad is that his stepmum and stepsister are sheilding and despite lockdown are both unwell anyway. His stepmum has a very severe heart condition which caused his sister to be born at 23 weeks and kow she too has severe issues ... i wouldn't dream of forcing him onto them because I care too much for her and his sisters wellbeing. She is genuinely an amazing lovely caring person but she's raised issues herself about him being there such as him hurting the dog on purpose etc and she's scared like I am of him being left alone in a room with her daughter or the pets again.. they have got into a lot of financial difficulty with her being off work and so his dad his working endless hours to provide so is barely home to help. I couldn't do it to her... plus it would fell like im passing on the problems to someone else to deal with ... if he is to go anywhere it needs to be somewhere who can help him ... shes a mental health therapist for a councilling service and so she is very very concerned about the behaviors hes displaying as she basically deals with people day in day out who were left with the intervention as children.
There is literally no more places he can go. My mum can only have him a few days here and there as she is working nights as a carer.

There is no one else he can go to.

OP posts:
Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 17:43

Ive decided the ps4 is as good as gone now. Its the main cause of everything that goes wrong and so it no longer exists as far as im concerned.
The girls are at their dads now until wedsnesday morning. Tomorrow il ring ss and explain about what happened Friday night and tell them I am scared for mine and my daughters welfare. Il ring their school and tell them too so they contact ss and raise their concerns about it. Then today ive told the girls dad what has happened so he has the full story instead of hearing bits from the girls.ive told him if he feels he wants to ring ss himself about what ive told him then he can do. Of ss hear it from all sides then they might listen. The police referred again friday night and ive not heard anything since from the police or ss. Whenever I ring on a weekend I always get told its office hours and no one is available on the emergency side of things. I once rang in april and they said they would send someone out as an emergency the next day and no one ever turned up. This is what im up against. Or getting passed from pillar to post constantly.

OP posts:
Apossibility84 · 21/06/2020 18:21

No OP

The PS4 is NOT the cause of everything. It is a trigger, but not the cause.

The cause is something far more profound.

mathanxiety · 21/06/2020 19:08

Can you ask the stepmum if she knows anyone who would see your DS soon? She must know other therapists.

Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 20:16

Hes just rung me to ask where I am as he is on the way home from being out. Ive come out for a walk around a nature reserve with an audio book now that the girls are at their dads. I was running a few weeks ago but suffered shin splints so haven't been out in ages... its felt so good to get the headspace but now im sat in the carpark dreading going back. Any other time I would have brushed off what he has done wrong in the past and asked cheerfully what he would like for tea and if he would like to watch a film together.... i just can't today. I cant even tell him I love him when I hang up because it all feels so different now. Like its gone too far Sad

OP posts:
AIMD · 21/06/2020 20:29

Oh I hope thing went/go ok at home this evening.
It’s good there is a little more wiggle room with the girls with their dad and you have had time alone.

It’s bound to be hard to act the same as usual after something so big has happened.

makingmiracles · 21/06/2020 21:13

Sending you a huge hug op. We were in your position 2yrs ago, very similar behaviours, nothing to do with teenage years, his behaviour had been challenging from 18m/2yrs I’d begged for help over the years from anyone and everyone, Hv, school, get set, camhs, paediatricians etc, everything was very unhelpful, getset did anger management with him, he would only go for the free McDonald’s, HV when he was little reassured me he would get easier, he didn’t. Camhs said your managing him well carry on doing what your doing and when he saw them in later years they just sent him on a self esteem group therapy course for 6wks.
He was under the paeds for 6yrs and they refused to do anything until he was older, then they would only do connors scale, repeatedly told me he’s not on autism spectrum because he makes eye contact(as someone who works regularly with adults with autism I couldn’t quite believe a consultant paed was peddling that crap, higher functioning people with autism can often manage eye contact) so no help at all.
School refused to do the necessary things to be able to submit a EHCP, it was such a big mess.

He had similar behaviour to your son, all the things you’ve listed and much more, except the hurting animals, he’s never hurt animals or set fires. He would often escape the house when younger, climbing out windows and scaling huge walls, often in his boxers and barefoot. He’d do things like climb onto community hall and run around on there knowing no one could get him down. He’d not come home at agreed times resulting in frequent calls to the police as he was missing. He compulsively lied constantly. He shoplifted from a young age, despite involving the police which at the time scared him, he stopped for a while and continued again when he was a bit older. He was frequently off school due to being excluded, on average 8days a month. It was unbearable constantly having meetings with school, having to collect him during the school day due to being excluded, I couldn’t have held down a job.

Sometimes we would wake up, both having felt that he’d been in our room whilst we were asleep, which was unnerving. For us it came to breaking point when he squared up to his stepdad after a dispute over a dvd and then turned and raised his fist to me whilst I was holding his baby sister. He went to live with his dad for a while, they had the same issues, he had to change school twice in a year, eventually we collectively called in ss to help, initially it was group meetings etc until a point came where he absconded from school and went missing for a week. When the police eventually found him they tried to bring him back to us, we refused to have him back, as did his dad and family, he was becoming a massive risk to his younger siblings due to his increasing violent and dangerous behaviour. The police weren’t happy when they rang me and said they were bringing him home, I said you can try but I won’t be answering the door, he’s not coming back here(felt awful at the time but knew it wouldn’t be an easy and knew we were at the point that if we pushed hard enough we’d get some help) his sw stepped in and said look we will take him into care but there’s nothing available at the moment, I was pushed into having him back, I thought that’s it were back to square one but she did keep her word and a placement was found, albeit a very expensive private one.

Since being there everything’s improved massively, he goes to a specialist school run by the placement, his behaviours improved but ultimately is more manageable with carers sharing the load so to speak. He’s finally got an EHCP, something I tried for years to get. He’s had drug and alcohol support, he’s had the YOT team involved. Every bit of help I’d tried to access over the years but came up against a brick wall he suddenly got because he was a LAC and they seemed to be able to put things in place which as a parent I couldn’t seem to access.
Our relationship is much much better, as his relationship with his siblings. We are no longer living in fear, I’m no longer stressed to breaking point, our house is quiet and calm.
He never did get a diagnosis, they wouldn’t go through with testing as he said he didn’t want to be labelled. It’s not about labelling though, it’s about gaining access to additional help, which as a parent is very hard without a diagnosis.

A lot of people will not understand behaviour like this unless they’ve been through it, it’s not as simple as limiting his PS4 time, it’s deep rooted, sometimes medical conditions are at play and it’s extreme and exhausting and I totally understand and empathise with you Brew Flowers pm if you need any help or just need to chat

ElizabethMountbatten · 21/06/2020 21:25

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the request of the OP.

Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 22:14

@makingmiracles

Sending you a huge hug op. We were in your position 2yrs ago, very similar behaviours, nothing to do with teenage years, his behaviour had been challenging from 18m/2yrs I’d begged for help over the years from anyone and everyone, Hv, school, get set, camhs, paediatricians etc, everything was very unhelpful, getset did anger management with him, he would only go for the free McDonald’s, HV when he was little reassured me he would get easier, he didn’t. Camhs said your managing him well carry on doing what your doing and when he saw them in later years they just sent him on a self esteem group therapy course for 6wks. He was under the paeds for 6yrs and they refused to do anything until he was older, then they would only do connors scale, repeatedly told me he’s not on autism spectrum because he makes eye contact(as someone who works regularly with adults with autism I couldn’t quite believe a consultant paed was peddling that crap, higher functioning people with autism can often manage eye contact) so no help at all. School refused to do the necessary things to be able to submit a EHCP, it was such a big mess.

He had similar behaviour to your son, all the things you’ve listed and much more, except the hurting animals, he’s never hurt animals or set fires. He would often escape the house when younger, climbing out windows and scaling huge walls, often in his boxers and barefoot. He’d do things like climb onto community hall and run around on there knowing no one could get him down. He’d not come home at agreed times resulting in frequent calls to the police as he was missing. He compulsively lied constantly. He shoplifted from a young age, despite involving the police which at the time scared him, he stopped for a while and continued again when he was a bit older. He was frequently off school due to being excluded, on average 8days a month. It was unbearable constantly having meetings with school, having to collect him during the school day due to being excluded, I couldn’t have held down a job.

Sometimes we would wake up, both having felt that he’d been in our room whilst we were asleep, which was unnerving. For us it came to breaking point when he squared up to his stepdad after a dispute over a dvd and then turned and raised his fist to me whilst I was holding his baby sister. He went to live with his dad for a while, they had the same issues, he had to change school twice in a year, eventually we collectively called in ss to help, initially it was group meetings etc until a point came where he absconded from school and went missing for a week. When the police eventually found him they tried to bring him back to us, we refused to have him back, as did his dad and family, he was becoming a massive risk to his younger siblings due to his increasing violent and dangerous behaviour. The police weren’t happy when they rang me and said they were bringing him home, I said you can try but I won’t be answering the door, he’s not coming back here(felt awful at the time but knew it wouldn’t be an easy and knew we were at the point that if we pushed hard enough we’d get some help) his sw stepped in and said look we will take him into care but there’s nothing available at the moment, I was pushed into having him back, I thought that’s it were back to square one but she did keep her word and a placement was found, albeit a very expensive private one.

Since being there everything’s improved massively, he goes to a specialist school run by the placement, his behaviours improved but ultimately is more manageable with carers sharing the load so to speak. He’s finally got an EHCP, something I tried for years to get. He’s had drug and alcohol support, he’s had the YOT team involved. Every bit of help I’d tried to access over the years but came up against a brick wall he suddenly got because he was a LAC and they seemed to be able to put things in place which as a parent I couldn’t seem to access.
Our relationship is much much better, as his relationship with his siblings. We are no longer living in fear, I’m no longer stressed to breaking point, our house is quiet and calm.
He never did get a diagnosis, they wouldn’t go through with testing as he said he didn’t want to be labelled. It’s not about labelling though, it’s about gaining access to additional help, which as a parent is very hard without a diagnosis.

A lot of people will not understand behaviour like this unless they’ve been through it, it’s not as simple as limiting his PS4 time, it’s deep rooted, sometimes medical conditions are at play and it’s extreme and exhausting and I totally understand and empathise with you Brew Flowers pm if you need any help or just need to chat

Thankyou so much and im so sorry you had to go through all this ... it is so sad that it takes so much to be listened to Sad
OP posts:
Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 22:21

@ElizabethMountbatten

Op has anyone ever said about PDA with regards to your son? PDA groups on FB give such good advice and support.
its been mentioned frequently to be honest... would I be able to be added to the groups if we haven't had a diagnosis yet? Im nor currently on fb atm due to having a social media break which is much needed right now for my own mental health long time coming ! Although I do miss the pages on there
OP posts:
Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 22:30

tonight feels a bit like the calm before the storm ... i came home after trying to stay out as long as possible. I went to sit with my dad (hes in the cemetery) for fathers day after my walk. When I came back ds is sat on the sofa watching YouTube on the living room TV. I asked him if he wants a cup of tea. He said please. Hes been pleasant. We are sat watching a family film about a holiday with Billy connelly in it ... Christ why can't everythinh be ok Sad

OP posts:
Legoandloldolls · 21/06/2020 23:11

I thought PDA in your OP. I'm.on a a PDA FB group too. I suspect my dd has pda.

Really read up on it and start a story about your son. What was he like as a baby, a toddler, at 9 etc. All his key events and key life moments. Then read up on various things like ASD, pda and think back again, anything way back in his story that fits?

Of course it might not be pda or asd as he needs a really good paediatrician or psychologist.

I had to fight to get my sons ehcp. They are very hard to get. I also fought for a social worker.

What ever journey you go down, the story will help.start a paper trail. A diary. To pull out as show SS how family support has failed you repeatedly for years, and health etc. Because all of that is proof and it's hard to ignore proof.

Things like pda and asd can be hard going. But it's something he can grow into. I don't want to suggest it's that because I'm no psychologist. But there is every possibility he can grow up ok. With the right help and with better understanding of himself. Eg a kid with pda can live by the rules, it's how you let them.think they have some control in their life. then slowly they have to take over that ownership of how they control a scary world.

I hope services don't keep letting you all down. Been there, doñe that. I have a extremely thick skin now a complaints to children services are almost a hobby, but that's what it took.

Dumbledorker · 21/06/2020 23:21

Thats a really good plan thankyou

Hes asked me what time he has to go to bed then asked me nicely if he can have some cereal.

Im not sure the right child has come back tonight Hmm

Its all good though and ive said that im grateful.how pleasant and thoughtful he has been tonight and so I will consider letting him have the WiFi tomorrow. Not the ps4 though.

Hes just asked if I would be willing to teach him more how to crochet too.

OP posts:
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