I cant do it anymore. DS14 is destroying me

[Dumbledorker]

I cant even find the words to write how bad it is. Im scared this is relentless and there is no way out of this ongoing hell with him. How do you deal with feeling like you have a sociopathic child who will never change only get worse. Im so scared I will lose him either through him eventually taking his own life because he feels so hated and alone or that in the future I will have to cut ties with him because of how he is. I hate writing this about my own son. He is the sweetest kid at times but when everyone is gone and its just me and him then its different. Its when he cant have his own way he doesnt react like a normal moody teenager its just nasty, physiological abuse.. he will stand for sometimes hours giving me a speech that seems like its out of a play like an actor would talk like... he will sit in my bedroom while I try to sleep until I give in and give him his WiFi privileges or PlayStation. I used to have to just give in so I felt safe but because ive reached out for help in the last few months I've started to regain control and be consistent so things can go on all night and I won't give in to his demands. Tonight its bedtime at 11 as its the weekend. This has led to him refusing and sitting laughing at me in the living room so I gave him a warning and said he has to go to bed or his priviliges (WiFi and ps4) will be taken tomorrow.. he says I have no control and im a shit mum. So I go upstairs and take the console and from there hes tried take it back and then took the hdmi cable out of the back of the TV so I cant watch it when hes in bed. Ive tried to get the cable back and hes dramatically fallen and said ive physically abused him so ive taken the ps4 to the neighbours who is my friend and helps me. I came back and he has locked me out with my little girls still in the house, he picked up a knife gesturing that he's going to kill himself ive rung 999. They have come out and told him he needs to follow my rules under my roof and listen to me. Theyve asked me to keep an eye on him through the night..they referred back to SS again although we are already under the local family hub for support and camhs who have said its behavioural not mental health. He told the officers hes out the knife back and was upset. This is the 3rd time they've come out in 2 weeks. Hes since been downstairs a million times telling me I am no mum to him anymore and he's done with me. He scares his sisters when he's like this i can't have them watching all this anymore. Ive tried so much to help him but im exhausted and broken. I cant possibly write everything that is happening i just need to know if anyone else is like this or if it gets better. Its hell .

No advice but just wanted to say that it sounds like a horrible situation for you and your family. I don't honk you should blame yourself at all. I'm Sure you haven't done everything perfectly as that's impossible but you must blame yourself.

Is your lad physically big. If so then that must make it even worse.

I hope you all get the help you need. Good luck and look after yourself.

@AIMD

I’m really sorry op, this situation sounds so hard for all of you. It also sounds like you have been trying your best to get things back on track. Is there any other family help? An uncle or anyone who could support you? I’m this would be hard for anyone to manage on their own. I can’t be nice for him either.

When I was a social worker I worked with a few young people with similar types of behaviour (though with a range of different needs). Sorry to say that in most cases the situation did just escalate until there was no option than to remove the child from their home. Unfortunately that response from CAMHS sounds familiar too. For one child I worked with (with ASD diagnosis) he ended up in an adult mental health facility (illegally) after he hurt a younger sibling and the police were called and there was nowhere to take him. After that he went to a specialist placement for young people but it was quite a distance from his home. Another lad I worked with (no diagnosis but lots of signs of an attachment issue- but no one in our area assesses that apparently) came into care (after his mum brought him to the office and told us she wasn’t having him at home anymore), a specialist placement, for a couple of years but then returned home at 16 and things calmed for him, he still had some difficult behaviour but Was a lot more settled and managed a simple college course.

Unfortunately often no real support happens until There is a significant incident. It shouldn’t be that way and people shouldn’t have to get to breaking point before getting a decent amount of input, but I guess that’s the outcome of under funded services.

Have social care actually done anything yet. It sounds like there needs to be a coordinated response from a range of agencies to assess what his needs are and to make a plan to go forward.

If I were you I’d call social care and be very clear that you are close to dropping him off at their office, that your girls are at risk from witnessing his abusive behaviour and that he is beyond parental control. Maybe ask your daughter school to contact social care too as surely they would be concerned for the girls welfare. This is all of course if you want to continue to try to manage him at home?!

So far the police have referred to social care each time they have been out , i have rang twice other times but we are only under the familysupport hub service which I gather is just one below social services. During lockdown the worker has visited and spoke to us in the garden. She emailed me the work for me to do on the 'whos in charge' programme course thing which ive literally not had any time to open nevermind sit and do any of it. The girls go to their dads tomorrow until Wednesday so il have time then. Camhs have reffered for an ASD assesment after doing a questionnaire with me over the phone but even then its only because I pushed for it. When I mentioned in the beginning at our sessions that I wanted him put forward for it she said he hasnt becuase he gives eye contact 🙄🙄

The GP has told me in the past that he hasn't got adhd because he wasn't fidgeting in his chair.

I am sorry you are going through this, I had a terrible time with my son aged 14/15 which escalated at 17, I was so lost about it (I am a professional working with social care) I posted it here - search for my post “kicked out of college”. In his case, as we later found out it was a big weed and any substance he could get hold of. I’m not saying your son is misusing substances, however please bear in mind. What also worked well was putting just one or two very firm boundaries in, but also talking to him like an adult and that included talking about his worries in a adult to adult way rather than a parent to child way. I also made clear that violence and coercion (which is what sitting on your bed is) is unacceptable and I wouldn’t accept it from anyone else, and wouldn’t be accepting it from him.

@NotMeNoNo

He sounds like he is really hurting and taking it out on everyone around him. This lockdown plus family break up maybe some deep rooted worries, plus IME 14 is the absolute pits for boys, plus bloody Fortnite....

I could write a lot but two sources of support: Sarah Naish books on therapeutic parenting and Non violent Resistance, there is a book by Sarah Fisher. A lot of adopters use these approaches. Basically a combination of self care, building a better relationship and trying to solve the underlying problem. I have a 14yo, it's improving slowly but some days are hideous, I feel for you.

Thankyou I will note these for my audio books whilst running.

Im truly sat in tears reading everyone's replies and its a lot to get through and wish i could reply individually but I really do appreciate every one...
Im overwhelmed with the options so will tomorrow note down everyone's ideas of services available too and gather my plan together of what to do monday when il be child free once the girls go to their dads tomorrow and ds will be going back to my mums... my mental health has been shot lately. Im also suffering from a conditon keeping me off work as a carer since meningitis made it worse in December and this week has hot worse and now my eyesight is becoming very bad very quickly... plus headaches and fatigue every day is battle on top of all this...

@chrissycn11

My 12 year old has ASD and PDA and his behaviour was very much like this. However, it has been resolved now he is on antidepressants, he is much calmer and the violence and aggression has stopped. Only a Psychiatrist or Paediatrician can prescribe them - I would push your GP to refer you to one. Keep pushing until you get the help you need or (if yo can afford it) go private.

This is ringing true the more I think of it and my friend has a son with this condition who has told me she would be very surprised if he didn't have it

Sorry you’re going through this, it sounds awful.
I did wonder about PDA. I have Autism (not PDA, I’m more demand compliant!). I’m
by no means an expert on this issue but...I watched a documentary on behaviour experts working with parents who were struggling. One boy had PDA, serious behaviour issues, had been excluded from school. One thing that they found really helped was that when they had a time limit they got her to set a timer on a clock rather than her telling him. It seemed to be a trigger to him when she said he ‘had’ to do things but he would do it for the timer. I’ll see if I can find the Tv show...I hope you get the help you clearly need soon.

I'm so sorry OP . He's a manipulative little ....
I grew up with a family member very similar (grown ass adult and is still like this). What you must not do is ever give in. No exceptions. Keep doing what you are. Take full control back. He will try and put you down and disrespect you. He will pull every threat and drama out there. All mind games. His ego can't handle the word no and he will do anything to get his way. Either he accepts the way things are (eventually) or he sadly grows up and you have a low constant relationship. Personally I'd chuck the Wii and the PS4 out. If my son spoke to me like that he'd have no privileges full stop. Remember you're the boss! Your house your rules!

Would be get scared if you threaten to throw him out? (Even if you don't mean in). I have a friend whose father packed all his clothes in bags, got him in the car and asked him where he'd like to be dropped off. His dad wasn't serious but suffice it to say that sorted his priorities out real quick. Later as an adult his father told him he wasn't really going to do it.

@contrary13

You mentioned that he wants to learn how to crochet. Could you teach him, or perhaps learn how to alongside him?

Everyone is very quick to leap to "put him in care!" and/or "have him sectioned!" - but I don't think they fully understand not only how difficult it is to do either, but also that you will lose your son completely. And as broken and exhausted as you are, OP, I don't think you want that. Not really.

At 14, your son is making choices. Does he understand that for every choice, there is a consequence, be it good or bad? Is he crying out for attention from you? Or is he flailing because he feels that he has to be "the man of the house"? You might get along with his stepmother, but does he? Does he feel like she's constantly studying him, looking for faults, and react accordingly? Does he resent the fact that you and his father are no longer together? Does he feel the weight of adult responsibilities bearing down upon his shoulders, and not know how/what to do? Was his father anything like this during your relationship with him?

He may well have a personality disorder, or other MH issues... sure. That's not improbable. Having him speak with a psychologist may well help (it did with my daughter)... but you can't force him to engage, unfortunately, so be prepared for him to close himself a little further away from you, if you seek psychological help for him.

My son, 16, went through a stage of very similar behaviours almost 2 years ago. It turned out that he thought that was how he was expected to behave, because he's the only male in the house, and his friends had been relating how their fathers/stepfathers behaved - so he daftly went with their examples. He didn't stop until, essentially, I had a complete breakdown through stress and he realised that he was the main cause. Two years on, he's a typical teenage boy - likes to sleep, hates homework, loves gaming... but there's no longer intimidation tactics and emotional warfare going on. One way back from the brink for us, was I asked him to show me how to play one of the games he liked. And that diverged into playing cards together. It's our "mother/son thing" now - and it's worked. Crochet may well be your son's saving grace and what brings him back to you. Either teach him, or learn together (there are plenty of tutorials online, but be aware of whether you're learning the American or UK way!) - and the precision of it, the accomplishment he'll feel when he has a finished item, the rhythm of it may well help quieten the rage of his mind. It's worth a try, surely?

I know it's hard, OP, but you're his mum. And he's crying out for attention - albeit in a horrendous way. Take some comfort from the fact that if he truly wanted to kill himself? He would have cut himself last night. But he got your full attention (and then the police's), didn't he?

oh he loves anything like this and has crocheted a blanket square already. He also did origami yesterday during an hour of having nothing to do before everything kicked off. Hes made models at my mums too that she bought him. She took him to cleethorpes over the humber bridge. They had fish and chips and a waffle. I bought 50 pieces of wooden cut offs from ebay which I plan to sand the edges and paint to make a large jenga set for my 3 year old nephew. The other week when the girls were at their dads I asked DS to come into the garden in the evening and showed him what I planned to do with them and we sat and painted and sanded but within minutes he was bored and fed up and went back in the house. He wants to be a joiner when he is older so I thought it was a good idea for us both to spend time together but it didn't pan out for long. Ive bought him some wool too to see if he wanted to do more crochet but he's not sat down yet to do so but im sure will do once he's calmed down and ready. The origami was a postive. Ive even woken him very early before at about 5am and passed him a flask and told him to get a blanket and his walking boots on and weve headed to a local castle to watch the sunrise with hot chocolate. I really really am trying but exhausted isn't the word .. i feel like all the people who say they will help just keep telling me they will ring back

I found the episode on YouTube. It was ‘Born naughty?’ And the one I was thinking about was this one. Obviously Charlie is a lot younger than your DS but see if the behaviour seems similar and some of the strategies might help? One disclaimer - the narrator keeps referring to ‘labels’ which really pisses me off! It’s not a label, it’s a diagnosis! A diagnosis which can mean the difference between labelling behaviour as ‘naughty’ and finally understanding behaviour as an indication of an underlying condition. Anyway, I’ll get off my soap box. Challenging his energy into crafts sounds brilliant. I crochet. I find the repetition very soothing.

I don’t know what to say, this sounds horrific. My boy is 14 and although he has his moments he’s basically just a big daft boy. I’m so sorry you aren’t getting the help you need

@Seaweed42

Take a bone off a dog and by Jesus you will get their attention.

The PS4 is so important to him because his friends are there. They are his tribe, his connection, what's important to him in his life. That cannot be dismissed or rubbished by others as just 'gaming'.
In some ways they are his 'family' and community, and in some ways they can help 'hold' him while he is in this tricky phase of teenage hood. He has a side of this story as well but he has no where to go.

When he is angry, and acts out, you desert him. He is 'left'. Just like his birth dad and his step dad. He is abandoned in those moments.
Likewise when he is angry with you, you experience this as rejection by a loved one. You feel abandoned in those moments.

I fear you are projecting onto him feelings you have had about other men in your life.
Have you had counselling yourself?

This stomping around in the middle of the night ripping out cables has to stop. There has to be compromise with him. Things seem to escalate very quickly and your own behaviour is a factor in that.
You are a mature woman, he is a 14yr old boy, but both of you act like younger kids in these rows.

Your son is never going to be the male support in your life that you never really got.

Hiding stuff in your room actually brings him 'closer' to you and the lonely part of you wants his attention. Fighting is a great way to get attention.

As the other poster said, sometimes you have to Stop. Pause. and just turn to him and offer him love and understanding.
Do the opposite of what your anger is telling you to do. You may need counselling yourself to stop reacting so dramatically to him.

This is a pivotal time in his life, it's a make or break for him. Get a Family Therapist and both of you go and see that person. Do this so both of you can have a valued life with fewer arguments and less visits by the police.

Christ 😂😂

Glad something made you laugh anyway, OP!

wow I reached the end haha.
A few points . He is openly willing to have an assessment for autism. He came up with a few points himself as to why he thinks he may be on the spectrum but he has been warned and advised since they he cannot use this as an excuse for bad behavior whether he is on the spectrum or has any other diagnosis doesn't give him the right to act this way towards people. We talked at length that autism isn't the be all and end all and it will help him and myself to tackle it better once we know where the problems lie and how better to support him whether it be different parenting strategies or medication. Ive suggested mindfulness for the time being even...
I do think the ps4 is a massive deal here but he claims its because its his only access to friends. I told him i have allowed him to keep his phone and he says his friends don't use their phone much becuase they are always on the ps4. He also mentions 2 online friends alot...
Hes really kind to his sisters to a point. He will be really nice with them and play with them in the garden on the trampoline but when hes mad he will randomly hurt them like he stood on dd9 back the other week for no reason and then lied about it. After an argument he will go and apologise to both of them and says ...im sorry but mums just really angry right now at me and she's being nasty isn't she.... and he will try overcompensate so it seems he is coming off as the good guy if that makes sense?
Or he will put their bedroom lights on after ive put them to bed so they can read when I've already tucked them in and its bedtime. Or the other way around he will randomly turn off their light and tell them its bedtime after I have told them they have 10 mins reading time.
He started making a cake mix kit with them at 10pm the other night and I know for a fact he heard me tell them it was very late and it was bedtime after a film...
Then he will say "here we go again and all I was trying to do was make a cake with my sisters, well girls you best go to bed then because mum says you can't bake it afterall"

Hes refused point blank to go to school the last 12 months so I took him out in February and deregistered him as he was excited for homeschooling and I got everything in place and joined all the fb groups for help on fb. Bought a new laptop so it wouldn't lag and cause him stress. I redecorated his whole bedroom to a high standard and aesthetic in mind to help him feel better each morning having everything in place and new and fresh. He licked his nose and wiped 50+ bogies all over the walls and bed .... its disgusting... he sneaks food up and has mould all over the new carpet where he hasnt cleaned up spills... i ask him to clean up the mess and explain how disrespectful it is that he has done this after a few months of me doing his room and he tells me "oh here we go again im not listening get out of my room. Then he will bitch about me to his online friends.. ive whatsapped him all the new rules and they were very basic and fair . He edited the screenshot and changed the time limits and said "no this is what will happen "

Tonight he rang me and told me he is staying at his friends house. I told him its against lockdown rules. So he told me it isn't and that actually he can escape domestic violance .... i know hes there and know hes safe.... please don't shoot me for giving in but oh god I hope.he stays there tomorrow too then back at my mums Monday because I just dread him. I absolutely dread his voice and his footsteps just everything right now ... im up again 3rd night in a row so late because I know if I go to sleep that the morning will come quicker ..

My brother was violent towards me when I was your DDs age; I wish my mum had made sure I was never left alone with him.

What you've just said about his behaviour towards his sister when he's not in 'nice' mode gives me chills - I ended up being sexually abused by him for years because I was so scared of his physical threats if I said no or said I'd tell someone - I honestly believed he could kill me.

Sorry if that's OTT ^^
I think you need to be super aware of his behaviour towards your daughters; I don't know if I'd be so alarmed about him if it weren't for the history of harming animals etc.

I hope you get a solution to all this, OP - it sounds like an exhausting and heartbreaking situation. Much love to you c

OP I clicked on this thread thinking I could offer some advice as my ds was horrendous in his teens, but even at his worst he was nothing like this.

I am so sorry for you. Lots of people on here have made good suggestions. I would definitely try to make sure your ds is never alone with his sisters.

You sound like an amazing person who is trying your hardest to deal with a dreadful situation.

@Dumbledorker - here is a link to the PDA society website, with resources etc. It used to have a questionnaire you could fill in but I haven't found it on a brief flick through, maybe if you scour it more it will show up again.
www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/identifying-pda/

However the latest descriptions sound really more worrying - he's trying to turn your DDs against you, he's trying to overrule your parenting and he's gaslighting as well?

He definitely needs assessment, ASAP really, before this gets any worse. If you have support from the social care hub, PLEASE phone them and tell them what has happened as his excuse/lie to you that he has left your home due to DV may get repeated to his friend's parents, who may then feel obliged to inform SS themselves.

Hes really kind to his sisters to a point. He will be really nice with them and play with them in the garden on the trampoline but when hes mad he will randomly hurt them like he stood on dd9 back the other week for no reason and then lied about it.

This reminds me so much of something the domestic abuse case worker the police assigned to me told me when I said “he is not that bad, I’m sure if you meet him you would like him”, she replied, “of course he is charming, all abusers are, that’s how they get away with it!”

Don’t fool yourself, you have the responsibility to protect your DDs as well, it doesn’t matter how much he plays with them on the trampoline, you just need him to stick that knife on one of them ONCE to have a tragedy and no amount of happy trampolining is going to erase that.

And he stood on his sister’s back and lied about it, what if he had damaged her spine? Stop protecting him and excusing him, he is your son but the ones that need the protection right now are your DDs. Is there any possibility of sending them to live with their dad while you deal with DS’s issues?

The ASD assessment should flag aspects of ODD or PDA.

Can you write incidents/behaviours down so that themes can be seen.

I have know children with PDA and ODD and their most difficult behaviour stems from anxiety and control

The recent description about turning on or off the girls' lights, starting to bake a cake with them at 10pm, turning you into the bad guy, the argument non-apology when he tried to manipulate them into focusing on you - HUGE red flags. He is dragging them into his conflict with you.

He is challenging your authority in your own home. One of you is going to have to lose this fight. Pissing all over the toilets is a marking behaviour. The destruction of the room you decorated goes along with that too.

It is all total and absolute disrespect for you, a big, fat F* U. But I bet there is a lot of anger toward his father underneath it all.

I don't mean to pile troubles on you, but your daughters are in danger. He has crossed a lot of lines already with them. He is using them to get under your skin. There is no telling what else he will do to them.

I think sending the DDs away should be your last resort however. They have done nothing to deserve being sent away from their own home. Please contact their school and talk to the safeguarding officer about their home experience. It is possible that SS could be contacted by the school. Tell the school you are at your wits end and ask for any suggestions as to resources.

Your exH needs to figure out a way to step up here and parent his son. If that involves taking him to live with him, then so be it.

You need to establish a zero tolerance for any aggression toward you or the girls. Call the police for any act of violence or any threat .

Can you afford to get a comprehensive MH and emotional disorder assessment done privately? Could relatives, your exH, etc chip in? Your GP sounds useless.

What do you know about the two PS4 friends he mentions frequently?

How is he with your mum OP?

I'd be worried that she is going through similar with him but won't say in order to help you and protect you and her dgds.

IF that's not the case and only if, then leave him with her for at least 6 weeks.

You desperately need a break.

Otherwise it's time to hand over to his dad. Whatever the problem there he (dad) needs to sort it.

You must draw the line. For yourself and dds but also your son.

That last post is chilling. He really is top dog atm. Brutally lording it over all of you.

You need to sweep it all away by removing him completely. There are other ppl responsible here and willing to help. You are at the point where everything else is secondary to needing him away from you for a while.

What would happen if you were suddenly ill? Who would take care of your DC? That should happen now. You are at breaking point. Emergency help is needed now.

Do you have any siblings your DS could stay with? Or other family?

I think your DS needs to know you have drawn a line. Not by speaking but by actions.

Sorry about my earlier post - it had typos galore including 'you should blame yourself' when I meant your shouldn't blame yourself'.
I think it was obvious in context what I meant but just wanted to be sure you knew.

The more you say about your son the worse it all sounds. I really hope you can get some professional help. I would be so worried about your daughters.

@Mayflowerss

So fucking patronising and sanctimonious Seaweed42

I agree. Worthless useless bullshit.

OP, firstly I want to say you sound incredible

Waking up to go and watch the sunrise would not be easy for any sleep deprived person, let alone doing it for someone who has drained you of energy and joy.

I feel we were in a similar trajectory with our DD.
After we had to lock all the knives, matches, meds etc away for fear of harming herself and her siblings, we finally got a referral to camhs once she actually hurt herself. Well done for getting the referral, that in itself is a huge battle.

I was convinced our DD had PDA, and we were waiting an assessment. In the meantime our camhs psychologist asked if she could do a cognitive assessment on our DD, and it turns out she has extremely slow processing, whilst the other markers of her IQ are above average, which means she is essentially chronically frustrated at herself.

Knowing this, alongside play therapy and we have a completely different child. We still have the defiant behaviour but because we know that it stems from complete utter frustration we find it much easier to deal with.

Some things that helped us on a practical level;
- Time time time and patience. Never rush her to do anything. This is tough if you have to be somewhere on time. We got her an Alexa to give her gentle reminders of the time. She takes Alexa's prompts much better than ours!
- If I need her to do something like come off her phone, I don't tell her 'come off your phone' I say 'you look like you need a snack, and the phone charging station is lonely'. It takes so much time and effort to change how I ask her to do things but it's made a huge difference.

• watch films and read stories about other people who have experienced difficulties in their lives. It's led to some fascinating conversations which show me that what I thought was a given 'known', she hadn't understood at all. Other areas she is incredibly philosophical.
• the biggest difference though came with the diagnosis as she now blames the 'slow processing' rather than herself, and we do too. I know the camhs system well enough to say that just pushing isn't enough, you have to push in the right ways and play a game that's v annoying when you just want to scream 'help my child!'. If you can, try and build up a case to get a cognitive assessment done, even if it doesn't shed more light on your son's problems, it will help you understand his cognitive strengths and weaknesses better.

I hope you have a smoother day today