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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

DD sex with friend

181 replies

BelleJinx · 07/12/2014 13:38

My DD (17) stayed at a friends after a party on Friday. Her best friend and her best friends boyfriend stayed in one room and my DD, another girl and 2 boys stayed in another. There were only 2 beds but because they were all a bit drunk, they had one girl and one boy in each bed.
My DD stayed in the bed of a boy she has liked for over a year and they regularly have kissed at parties but never dated or done anything past kissing. She admitted to me that one thing led to another and they had sex.
I was shocked at this because although DD has had sex with boyfriends in the past, she never had casual sex with someone she is not dating (least that im aware of). How would you react if this was your DD?

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 13/12/2014 08:23

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Toughasoldboots · 13/12/2014 08:25

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Toughasoldboots · 13/12/2014 08:26

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mathanxiety · 13/12/2014 08:27

And may I take it from the reticence on the matter of what boys are being told about consent that boys have not been made aware of the importance of this detail?

whooshbangprettycolours · 13/12/2014 08:30

I'd put money on most boys are not talked to about consent. We are still in victim blaming mode and expect our girls to act defensively.

Rape is not always violent.

mathanxiety · 13/12/2014 08:31

Well let's put it another way then, and sorry if you find that particular phrase offensive -- how about 'those offering a definition of rape based on their own experience and dismissing the possibilty that rape that can happen in a way that is different from their experience of it'.

The only thing that all rape has in common, by legal definition, is lack of consent.

Toughasoldboots · 13/12/2014 08:31

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saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 08:32

I had a very similar experience to the OP at university. I learned that some people you class a friends want a bit more, & that if you just go along with things then you can end up regretting what you do. It most definitely was not rape though. Poor communication on my part about what I wanted? Yes. Rape? No.

When I talk to my son's I bear that experience in mind.

mathanxiety · 13/12/2014 08:32

I would bet my boots on it, Whoosh.

mathanxiety · 13/12/2014 08:35

Do you mention the element of explicit consent, Saintly?

Or do you think it's acceptable that there might be women out there years from now regretting their 'poor communication'?

saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 08:38

From talking to my friends lots of people talk to their sons about consent. My oldest child isn't going to ever have sex, but I have already started speaking to my next oldest pre-teen about consent. I am scared for them that they could end up in a situation similar to the one I was in. The other person was very inexperienced & I was not clear - he didn't beg, he didn't pressurise things just progressed because I at no stage showed I wasn't happy with it. I did more than I wanted - but it was not rape. As the younger two get older we'll be talking more about that sort of situation.

saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 08:41

I haven't mentioned explicit consent because ds2 is 12, more interested in minecraft than girls & never even kissed a girl. Ds3 is 9. But yes of course I'll talk about explicit consent - I think the boy I was with was very vulnerable as well to be honest (& I was more experienced than him).

saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 08:43

Although actually - you have to he careful with explicit consent - because people find it difficult to say no. It's rude. So will be talking about when yes means no as well.

SanityClause · 13/12/2014 08:47

I also agree with math.

She has not said unequivocally that the girls was raped, but suggested that given what little we know, that it was possible.

Someone might give consent to sex in a context of a dating relationship, but not give consent to the same person, on the basis of a ONS. And the DD possibly changed her mind on this point only on the basis that she was too drunk to consider her actions rationally.

There is nothing wrong with having a ONS, if that is what both wanted. But the girl is somewhat confused, so perhaps it wasn't what she wanted at all.

I think sometimes it's difficult to consider these things, because it might mean we have to reassess some of our own drunken sex experiences, and we may have talked ourselves into believing they were okay, when on closer scrutiny, they were not.

I speak for myself, here. I have had willing, if drunken sex, and have also been taken off guard, when drunk, to do something I would not have done sober, or even less drunk. I now know that situation to be rape. I was very ashamed of it for many years. I thought I was guilty of "slutty" behaviour. It's actually a relief to look it in the face and realise that 1) even if I had given consent, what I did was fine, and not "slutty" and 2) I didn't give meaningful consent, so even if it had been something to be ashamed of, it is not I who should be ashamed.

Disclaimer - I don't actually subscribe to the notion that any behaviour is "slutty". But I was brought up to believe that, as so many of us are.

mathanxiety · 13/12/2014 08:49

If you did not give explicit consent then what you are talking about is rape.

saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 08:53

I'm interested in how people regard consent as being given. In my case I responded, didn't hesitate, kissed back etc. I didn't want to do what I was doing but the other (inexperienced) bloke would have had to be a fucking mind reader to know I wasn't into what I was doing. To call it rape would be obscene IMO.

And yes I'll talk to my boys about that sort of situation - and how to keep checking it's okay to continue - but bloody hell it's pretty scary for them too.

saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 08:58

'Is this good?' Yes
'Do you like this?' Yes

Consent??? Maybe not as both phrases are constructed to prefer a yes - it's hard to say no.

I think I shall teach my boys to say 'would you like me to stop?' Or something similar. As that also prefers a yes - so if the girl is saying no she probably is really happy to continue.

Then keep checking. Bloody hell.

saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 09:03

See 'would you like me to carry on?' is more problematic than 'would you like me to stop?'

mathanxiety · 13/12/2014 09:40

Experience or no, a person who wants to penetrate someone else's body asks first, surely?
Would he have been expected to ask directly if he wanted anal sex? Would you consider it differently if he had taken consent to kissing to mean consent to anal penetration?

Kissing back doesn't mean 'yes let's have sex (whether anal, oral or vaginal)'. There is a line that is crossed when a penis penetrates another person's body. It is not impossible for men/boys to understand this, or that other people, male and female alike, have a right not to want them to penetrate them just as boys/men have the right not to want another man to penetrate them.

When it comes to sex, are yes and no are too complex, and is asking direct questions is not doable? There is no need for coyness. How about asking 'do you want to have anal/vaginal/oral sex?' How about listening out for the word 'stop' or 'no' or even 'wait a minute..' as you proceed. This may not sound very suave or smooth or James Bondesque, but would a man want to have sex with someone whose consent to sex was questionable? If so, why would sex in this circumstance be acceptable to him?

CariadsDarling · 13/12/2014 09:46

And may I take it from the reticence on the matter of what boys are being told about consent that boys have not been made aware of the importance of this detail?

Or then again perhaps people just can't be bothered their backside replying to the question.

saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 09:59

My point math (& there is a lot of research into this) is that people don't find it easy to say no to a direct 'do you want' question. The phrasing makes a difference- which is why 'do you want me to stop?' Is preferable to 'do you want me to continue?' - it's not about being coy. I think inexperience plays a big part - a 20 year old virgin is going to be panicking himself - not desperately trying to rape someone. Most men are not predators.

slithytove · 13/12/2014 10:42

If you did not give explicit consent then what you are talking about is rape.

My husband has raped me many, many times then.

We often go from kissing to foreplay to piv without speaking. Lots of steamy looks and mutual touching though. Especially when I join him in the shower.

But I guess even though we both wanted it, both enjoyed it and both actively participated, he raped me.

I find you small minded, offensive, and actually damaging the real crime of rape.

Stillwishihadabs · 13/12/2014 12:07

One of the nicest boyfriends I had (aged about 15) said to me "just let me know when you want me to stop" I think that was a great way of phrasing it. So he expected me to want to stop at some point and respected that. He was lovely :)

saintlyjimjams · 13/12/2014 12:10

That's a good way of phrasing it (and MUCH less of a passion killer than "do you want to have vaginal sex" Hmm )

Stillwishihadabs · 13/12/2014 12:34

The other positive thing us that because he was one of my first, it enabled me to tell other men later what I was and wasn't comfortable with, because I had practiced. doing so in a safe environment.