I'm considering being a surrogate

[TheTwirlyPoos]

We have two good friends, they are gay.
They are desperate for a baby and I'd love to help them.
I've had two children of my own and am done.
My husband is uncertain and concerned I will become too attached etc.
Where do we start thinking about this?!

How will your existing children feel when you hand over your baby?

This really. And put your children at risk of losing their mum. Or having a very poorly mum for the best part of a year if it’s a difficult pregnancy.

Do you think the same about adoption? Because that is also taking a child away from its mother. Is that also unspeakably cruel, and psychologically damaging?

Anyone who is against surrogacy, must also be against adoption. It's hugely disingenuous and hypocritical to bash and deride surrogacy, but be OK with adoption. It's exactly the same. A child being taken from its birth mother.

FWIW, I am not against surrogacy OR adoption. I can't be for one and against the other you see, because they're basically the same.

Think very very carefully. Would you be willing to die or becoming very seriously ill in order for them to have a child? I know that sounds dramatic but it nearly happened to my best friend. She was a surrogate for a close friend who had unfortunately had cancer and couldn’t carry her own child.

My friend had 3 of her own children, knew she would never have any more of her own and she felt desperately sorry for her friend and husband.

Despite having 3 uneventful births before, she wasn’t so fortunate the next time. A lot went wrong during the birth and she nearly died. She needed several pints of blood and her DH was told to prepare himself for the worst outcome. Whilst she did do a wonderful thing, she recovered and the longed-for baby was healthy, she very nearly left her 3 DC motherless.

Absolutely not. A child needs its mother. Bottom line. Not interested in all the whataboutery. You’re planning and purposely causing trauma to a child from the very outset of its life. Abhorrent.

I’m adopted. They are entirely different scenarios.

Surrogacy purposefully creates a child to then be taken away from the mother who has carried it throughout the pregnancy.

Adoption is designed to allow a child that already exists to go to a safer home. This doesn’t always work, of course, but adoption helps children that already exist.

Surrogacy knowingly creates children who will be removed from their mother at birth.

Can you really not see the huge difference?

But that’s nonsense. Adoption is a decision that is made with the baby’s best interests at heart. Surrogacy is done for the intended parents.

In fairness to @BatchCookBabei think sometimes people don’t take a step back before comparing adoption and surrogacy in the way she has. I’ve heard it a lot before and it does seem to take people by surprise when they are reminded that one knowingly creates children who will be removed at birth and the other helps children that already exist. They are so completely different.

Imagine you find out now that your mum is not your mum, or you've grown up without knowing your mum and know your dad(s) put you in that position. A life really is a whole life.
Yes the two men want a cute baby - how sweet- ahhh. BUT that baby is an adult for a lot longer than it is a child.
Look at Long lost families, it really impacts the person for their whole life. Let the men adopt to create a new bond for a DC who already needs and would value support, rather than create a new broken family.

Agree totally, @whathaveiforgotten

Hence my reference above to the work that is done in supporting families to stay together where possible, and the rare occasions in infancy where early separation from the mother is safer.

Adoption is the solution to a problem. Surrogacy sets out to create the problem.
The two are completely different. And in the UK hardly any mothers voluntarily hand over a newborn baby - if they did it would be to social services, who would organise temporary fostering to approved foster carers, not to some completely unvetted mates.

I have two adopted children. They were abused and neglected and forcibly removed from their birth family. Imo children should only be removed in extreme circumstances like this, not to satisfy the needs of adults. DNA connections really matter - Adoption is tricky for many children, and we shouldn't think that surrogacy is some kind of equivalent.

In fact, surrogacy is child trafficking and any surrogacy is apart of this huge worldwide market. OP may be doing it for a friend, but would she expect expenses? Weekly hello fresh boxes, clothes and spa days? An apple watch?

And who are these guys? Does she really know them? Enough to trust them with a baby?

It's already happening. Did you ever see this at the start of the Russia/Ukraine conflict? The line about foreign couples having no way of collecting "their" babies as though they are parcels at a depot is chilling.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/12/world/europe/ukraine-surrogate-mothers-babies.html

It was 'their' babies. And extremely distressing not to be able to be with them. That's the chilling part.

It's wrong, it's child trafficking and using women as a commodity. If your gay friends want a child so badly they can adopt or foster to adopt. They are not owed a child of their own. All surrogacy should be made illegal and I feel sorry that any woman would consider debasing themselves and womanhood like that. This is 2025, that surrogacy is still a thing is heartbreaking, even worst that women are socialised from childhood to put men's needs first. It makes me so SO angry!

Whereas a friend - married, 2 kids, decided she had to do it for 'family friends' her eggs, so she was going through the ovulation stimulation hormone treatment... Over and over again.
She turned into a demon. This (non existent) baby was coming before her own kids and husband.

Well she got pregnant, Carried baby. Gave baby away.

Everyone reeling in her wake.

Split the whole family.

Why not just choose one of your current children? Just say goodbye and hand them over tomorrow….

I’m not saying this to be flippant. Imagine how that would feel. Even writing this gives me heart palpitations as I’m listening to my child sleep beside me. How can you know those fierce and powerful emotions that come from having a child, and think you could cope with giving one away like pass the parcel?
I appreciate you’re coming from a place of kindness, and you only want your friends to to have the experience of children and everything it involves. But really? Enjoy the daydream then take off your rose glasses and look at reality.
If they want children, it’s for them to figure it out in their way. You don’t sacrifice yourself for their happiness because of a saviour complex.

If the OPs two friends are that desperate for a baby I’m sure they are already looking at adoption. Particularly since in this country surrogacy is rare because you are not allowed to pay to exploit the woman but instead you have to find someone with a big enough saviour complex.

i think lots of people are now realising just how explorative and wrong surrogacy is. If I learned that a friend was doing it I would not think she was “stunning and brave” (to borrow a phrase) or wonderfully kind, I would think that she was in it so that people thought she was wonderfully kind and generous and self sacrificing. Basically in it for the glory. If I found out friends were using a surrogate, particularly a paid surrogate, I would serious judge them and would think them selfish and immoral. I don’t think I would continue to be friends with them.

Paid surrogacy is akin to prostitution. It exploits vulnerable women.

The chilling part is the buying of babies in the first place.... Not the inability of some one to collect them.

Sadly most of these type of men in this country get a surrogate abroad instead of adopting.

I think its very different
A child that is adopted is removed from the mother because its the best thing for the child
A baby created by surrogate is created purely for the benefit of the people who comissioned it

Being an atruistic donor for a friend or relative is a hugely kind act if you are entering into it freely, fully informed and with no pressure on you (including any financial pressure because any payment = coercion and makes the whole thing unethical)

However, your first duty is to your existing children. No pregnancy is risk-free and you could end up with serious lifelong complications which limit your ability to do what's needed for parenting them. Risks for maternal mortality in childbirth increase with higher numbers of children, even without the statistics that surrogate pregnancies are statistically more likely to have complications. Accepting that risk if you were to decide to TTC DC3 for yourself is a whole different thing from accepting that risk to do a kind thing for someone else.

Being an atruistic donor for a friend or relative is a hugely kind act

Only if you completely ignore the creation of a child who will have the lifelong psychological trauma and difficulty with relationships associated with having been removed immediately from his/her mother.

It's not kind to the child.

Thanks everyone. You've confirmed what were my initial feelings and I think this is one to listen to my gut on.

How can anyone be surprised by this, though? People who have recieved life changing transplants have to take immunosuppressant drugs for ever, because the two sets of tissues are not related. Blood has to be screened for blood type before transfusion, because otherwise it would be ineffective, and possibly fatal.

Carrying a child which is genetically ‘foreign ‘ is ‘unnatural’ and so less protected from damage and harm . There was an experiment some time ago to use mares for surrogacy when the mother who produced the female gamete could not carry the foal. It was not very successful.