Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: Always Have a Ball Gown at the Ready in Celebration of Your Enemy's Demise

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

Consignment shops, Vintage, and Restaurants

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Did you not just buy a bag 😱

Eh no a hobo bag has nothing to do with boho although boho does tend to favour unstructured bags so there's a bit of overlap. Hobo bags are named after homeless (well not really, they were more like wanderers who hitched rides in train cargo wagons without paying and no fixed place to call home but it's pretty much synonymous with homeless now) in the US bit of an evolution of that cartoon stick with tied up bit of fabric (I don't know the English name).

Incidentally it's considered culturally insensitive to call them hobo bags in the US these days <tries not to shriek with laughter and fails miserably>

Anyhow, they're probably due a return but they're not that standout-ish so in this social media age where things have to pop to gain traction it probably won't have much impact. I kind of avoid them as to get a nice slouch you need a nice thickness of leather and they're usually on the large side so they just tend to be a heavy weight on one part of your body before it's stuffed full of stuff.

Studs can have all sorts of associations and Western boots are never out of fashion.

Have you had a look at Callista bags microbuis? They have some styles that look similar to what you like (just not sure re prices as they have gone up since they have started to do well outside Greece).

Sorry I meant to add that I didn't quite understand if you're looking for a bag to buy or just trying to match names to bag types.

Thanks, Sophie, I had a look - I like their saddle bag - attached. To me, it looks not too dissimilar from the hobo bag. I am so confused. Shapes are also repeated across brands that I thought would be copyrighted.. Very confusing

I don't think I am planning to buy. At least not yet. And not at the full price. I think I am trying to understand things a bit more, so for instance as I go to lots of sample sales I'd actually understand what things are and will be somewhat impulse-buy proof. I managed quite well so far but as I wrote here earlier that I observed in real-life how well some women look at things (also, many are lost at a hectic sight such as a big sale, like me) and I want a bit more knowledge on top of my intuition.

Thanks, bo! The relationship between the hang and the thickness of leather you point out confirms that it's always important to touch and hold things before buying... Wikipedia is to blame for the the boho-hobo quasi-palindromes! And apparently Sienna Miller

image

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001bbpf?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Might be of interest to the Parisians 🇫🇷

I can't get that link to open TwoBlondes although it looks like BBC?

microbius I don't have much bag expertise I'm afraid. I like one that leaves both hands free (and never got on with backpacks) so these days I stick to a crossbody style with a real, functioning buckle (not a popper in disguise). I think they're called messenger bags? Pre pandemic, when I routinely spent all day in an office, I wanted one big enough to carry all the essentials plus hat, gloves, book and chocolate, but I don't need to do that so much now so, like Xing says, I think it might be time for me to downsize - I've had poor posture since I was a teenager but there's no point making it even worse. But I'll probably wait and see how life pans out once I've retired and then reassess.

What I warn everyone off is a large bag that hangs off one shoulder. I came very close to wrecking my back with one some years ago.

At the end of the day bags are functional things which will mean very different things at different stages of life and you have to prioritise that over everything else unless you live a life where that isn't much of a factor (like only ever making short trips back and forth between a car and your destination) which isn't many of us. We talked Sex and the City previously, and they really turned bags into these mythical life changing things, the it bag era, it's lingered since but I get the idea we're back to amplifying that idea again (probably inflation related, people are more likely to invest in one important piece than lots of random bits) much to my chagrin.

I'll check out that podcast Blondes, thanks, I'm in need of a new one as I've become exasperated with Dressed. I was able to overlook the constant virtue signalling before but I think I've reached my limit.

Micro as for suddenly being able to get it if you understand the technical terms, I think it's a bit of a fallacy. It's like buying all the kitchen kit and cookbooks and then thinking you can suddenly cook when you've never done it before. Like most creative things it's a practice with more failures than successes. Wrt sample sales, my strategy is always to go in with a mindset of you're there to buy unique one of a kind pieces and that's the thing to seek out, if they're not enriching or enhancing what you already have you probably don't need it. Plus an allowance for no brainer items, basics that you buy over over and again, etc.

Looks like the fashion press is back from their holidays. Really enjoyed this where two designers exchange a collection piece and reinvent them. There was a previous video a while back with John Galliano and someone else that was a bit okay as it was very much just doing their own thing, this one was much improved over that one and felt much more like a dialogue between the two designers. And now I obviously want a Haute Couture cape...

Jess Cartner Morley on the death of trends was interesting (was she lurking on that trendy thread? I'll never know as I only parodied it and didn't read it), I'm rather concerned about the Ralph Lauren thing though... I suppose it's that coastal grandma thing continued.

Slight deviation but style is style, regardless of medium, Lucinda Chambers on decorating her home.

Hmm, integration of video looks a bit shit on the new MN platform 🧐

I think of hobo as having a gather in them, like this- wandererstravelco.com/collections/bags/products/the-clovelly-crossbody
am I off piste? And I did not know you couldn’t say hobo anymore but it is obvious when you think about it, <joins Bo in shaking with laughter> I am very practical re bags, I am thinking of paying hideous shipping and reordering several of my silicon fablou cross body bags from the uk in several colours.
I love everything bright pink and red in clothes including coats so keep posting those! Have I said that a flowy black dress that shows shoulder gets you everywhere in new York and layers easily? It’s much easier than trying to nail the current trend although of course if you are up for that go nuts.

re posse bo - mixed? I feel like quite a bit of it is targeted at lissome young things with cut outs and midriffs and unlined, and I ordered a pair of size 8 high waist cotton casual trousers and sent them straight back because I don’t think I could have buttoned them up when I was 16. (Who am I kidding, I probably could have) But, I love my shirt and it scores 100/100 in wearability, which is not always the same.pics show it on and the cut, in action mid holiday so creased… I do have a beach cover up type dress, I have attached a pic but it is not very flattering right now so didn’t come on holiday. it’s cotton linen and I wear it but it’s not a love item. A loose weave linen outer I think and I would actually not have guessed the lining is 100% cotton with its pilling. So mixed reviews, definitely some decent stuff, but I don’t go looking for it.

No, that's a bucket bag, not a hobo. Bucket bags were originally a special order at Louis Vuitton to carry a bottle of champagne 🍾 🥂 to a picnic, so like a champagne bucket but without the ice, I guess. That's potentially a bit of made up PR lore nonsense but I like the idea of it so I'm choosing to believe it for the sheer whimsy.

I was just thinking about you time as I've stumbled another interesting Aussie brand, Esse studios, it's $$$$ though l, although I always equate US to AU dollars as 1:1 which I know they're not but considering how badly performing the euro has been maybe it's approaching 1:1 to that now 😱 There's a lot of interesting details in the clothes though so I can see where some of all the money went.

I can see why you like the Posse shirt, looks very comfy but it still has an interesting shape. Mixed bag probably explains why I occasionally stumble across it secondhand in good condition, those are probably the things that didn't work out...

Sorry @Floisme , it's an R4 series called Torn presented by Gus Casely-Hanford about clothes - one episode is about cotton.

@TwoBlondes it's quite interesting. I've heard a few programmes.

A very interesting discussion and links! Bags perhaps make economic (?) changes easier to see. There is the rise and rise of high end bags propped by the Asian luxury markets, the IT bag, etc, but also there has been a rise of mid range luxury that is following me around in my googling. Some of it is DTC and some not, but many new brands seem to sit in this sweet middle, which, I guess, is partially the result of social media, but - maybe - I don't know - also connected to the decline in quality of the high street brands? I keep finding more and more of them, and some seem very good but also I have this creepy feeling that I am made to find them and like them.

Of course you're right, bo, it's a question of practice, but I constantly have this feeling that I can't trust my own feelings / what I like. JCM "buy what you wear in 5 years" is a good example. I am not on social media, I don't follow any influencers, but I am acutely aware that I inhabit the same visual culture and there is no hiding from it. JCM mentions new forever buys - shirts and blazers, which I liked and got this year (I never quite grown to like beforehand although I tried). And now I am thinking, well, isn't it just another round of fashion. Like the summer a year or two ago, Ganni populated the world with green and red viscose wrap blouses. I have two! I love red and green colour in the summer, and I thought wouldn't it be fun to wear such things. Experiment. Not once did I wear either of them. I felt like a flamenco dancer in a fish and chips shop. Two years passed and you can't see them anywhere. What if all these timeless classics, luxury basics, - Khaite, (The Row), Raey, Esse bo posted, - and I love such things - is a new version of Ganni's flamenco blouse?

I am sorry it's becoming a novel. What I am trying to articulate, I guess, is a difficulty of walking what feels a very tight rope of growing your wardrobe, experimenting, taking pleasure in clothes and resisting pressure from artful and skilful people whose aim is to extract as much of your money as possible. But also of course style and fashion is a social thing, it's a form of communication, etc - can't be entirely individual, uninfluenced or pure in any way.

Finally - apologies again for the length- Lucinda Chambers' house was such a pleasure to look at, because it feels like a real, lived in house. I found myself googling french intellectuals flats or looking at Jane Birkin in her flat, just to rinse my visual field off these perfect empty houses from architecture websites that also I find exercise pressure on me in terms of how I imagine and inhabit my house. Rant over

Quite a few articles, videos and podcasts to catch up. I like when I have a small selection of little items to go through and take my mind on holidays while I am back from them.
Lucinda Chambers house is a joy. Incidentally I have now a small cranny that used to be a cupboard with boiler etc and now is an empty space that is shouting do something with me! The dog sleeps on the floor space of such place and at the top there are white walls and for the moment some badly stitch photos to cover the dirty wall. But I like taking my time when is about decorating and not rushing, so at some point I will see a hanging type thing like the top of a French/Welsh dresser to go there.
I am back from my holidays and saw this colour coat from Isabel marant, posting just to add to the colour coats discussion.
I had minimal time in Paris so only had a brief peak in galleries La Fayette, they do a small selection of pre-loved items , quality and condition is as new and I saw this shirt which I got as for me is a no brainer as is something I will wear.

I agree with you about 'timeless classics' microbius. I think that, at best it's an unhelpful concept and at worst, its a device to get you to spend more than you can afford. As a fan of JCM, I'm disappointed to see her pushing it. The same goes for, 'Only buy it if you love it.' Well Duh. I often love clothes at first sight - the real question is, are we going to have a relationship? And I never know that until I've worn it at least half a dozen times and seen how it washes.

Lovely shirt Red!

I didn't read the JCM piece as her pushing it, more as establishing it as a thing changing the industry. Although I've just read a piece in Vogue Business with data that would suggest different (I don't disbelieve JCM, it's probably true for the Guardian lifestyle section demographic and the Vogue Business article is looking at the US primarily). Article is here but behind a paywall (easy to get around with archive -dot- org , but I don't think we're allowed to post direct links to that site on here but simple enough to do yourself or I suppose I can PM the link of the article w/o paywall if someone really strugles?). It's good to see that what I've been sensing for a while, that secondhand is the new fast fashion, same old overconsumption dressed up as guilt free (the parallels to the diet food industry keep on coming), backed up with data. Also interesting to see there is downturn in some areas with layoffs, so even the novelty of secondhand is wearing off. Also, not part of the article but also downs JCM's proffered balloon, Shein is still growing at ridiculous numbers.

Interesting you went to the Lafayette secondhand section, Red. Of all the department stores it's probably the one with the smallest section of it and it's a selection of different shops from around the city having a consignment of sorts there, so it's a bit like a little shopping alley. My favourite was next door in Printemps, it's the entire top floor and it's huge, curation was great too (also children and home wares) and you can step out onto the terrace for amazing views. I have pics (of the secondhand floor, probably also the view, I think, probably, maybe ) I'll see if I can dig them up later.

Wrt timeless classics, it's definitely an abused concept and a sure sign of financial uncertainties but fashion does have its archetypes and if you can skirt on the right side of it with interesting details ('twists' for more overabused concepts) those things do sort of evade trends with a longevity that isn't boring but the wrong ubiquitous twist makes it ripe for carbon dating. It does require some training of the eye and experience as a result.

I think it ties in somewhat with the anti fashion movement (which was anti trend in the 1990s) where Belgian and Japanese designers really disrupted the status quo, so it's interesting that it's now becoming/is the status quo (at least among 'tastemakers').

Which sort of leaves a vacancy to oppose that, which is probably a good thing. Fashion has been quite stale and commercial for quite some time now and is lacking new blood. A lot of young talent burned out quickly the cycle speed of trends has accelerated and didn't return, or failed to deliver while the established designers remain in place (with the odd game of musical chairs). We may very well be in the calm before the storm phase with our 'timeless' classics and uncertainty in the world outside of fashion will probably keep us suspended there for a bit, but the bubble will burst eventually.

Its interesting to think what fashion could do next that’s revolutionary - it’s hard to think of a silhouette or a length or un/cover up level that hasn’t been done, but the designers will come up with something.
There was an article here about making fashion more sustainable - it was painful, said clothes used to have deeper seams and features like tucks to be more adjustable, these have all but disappeared and reviving them would be a good move for sustainable fashion. No mention that the extra fabric costs more or people can’t sew… but it is a fair point that it’s more sustainable than buying piles of second hand stuff (& I love second hand). But reducing the first hand is step 1 as that’s what becomes second hand.

Love your shirt, Red!

Flo, yes, developing a relationship with clothes! That's why I find MH so amazing, - when you buy her item, it somehow doesn't feel "new". I often feel like I had them for ever. And they are the ones I inevitably reach out for every morning. But they don't necessarily give you the thrill that I imagine the pink haute couture dress from Valentino or the resulting cape in a film bo posted would.

bo, it would be so interesting to hear more about fashion archetypes. Would there be something along the lines of various incarnations of Chanel jacket; or a man's suit for a woman kind of thing? Is there an archetype for an A line skirt (love them)? Or it's more of an order of the use of lace, shimmer, transparency, etc?

And another question - the Japanese/Belgian anti-fashion of the 1990s becoming taste-makers of today. Are brands like Studio Nicholson are an example of this (Japanese aesthetic, often interesting play with proportion / geometry, etc)?

Sorry, cross post with time. I was thinking recently that if I made a shirt myself, to the high standard, or had to make 3 or 5, to wear every day, I would absolutely stick to the lowest possible number and be very considered in their design. I would not be keeping making them to the order of 20-30 with variations in oversized, fitted, shawl collar, draped shoulder, etc. This is really only possible because some other people living in poverty make them for us. I don't know what the answer is. I don't want to have the responsibility to sew all my clothes, and clothes for my entire family.

I do believe in classics by the way. I just think that classics still fall out of fashion but that what marks them as classic is that they come around time after time, often with minimal change, and that when they do, you forget they've ever been away.
I don't wear polo necks but I think they're a good example - out of the shops for years and then suddenly back. Chanel-ish jackets have been off the radar for a while and due a big comeback very soon I would imagine.
That's the trick I think - spotting those off-the-radar things before they come around again. The problem is that when they're off radar, I tend to forget all about them.

Yeah, if Ralph Lauren is a hot commodity those Chanel jackets can't be lagging behind by much. But I do think we're past the mindset of dated (and why I thought the JCM piece was interesting as it seems to be embedding into industry), you can wear a Chanel jacket today without anyone raising an eyebrow. If that remains will be a watch and wait thing. Potentially the dated/in fashion dynamic is being replaced by responsibly sourced/not, among certain demographics anyhow?

Archetypes are just that micro basic patterns that are adjusted. Yes, Studio Nicholson is definitely a child of the anti fashion movement but it's lacking some qualities, mainly the drive for technical innovation, it's all aesthetics and no substance which reminds me of similar discussions we're having in my own field WRT deconstructivism.

Which ties in to my response to time, innovation will be technical and in material, the last comparable innovation on an industrial scale was the advent of elastic (and to a lesser extent synthetic fabrics, that had more business and economic impact than that it changed what we wore) and that really produced different clothes. Adaptability was a part of that and I imagine new innovations would strive for that too. I think the 3d knits at Uniqlo are an interesting thing to look at in that sense, it sort of builds on the pleats please concept of Issey Miyake. It's a shame I look shit in both but I do think that's where innovation is headed, we've been weaving flat 2d material and turning them 3D so it makes sense to start cutting out the middle man, so to speak, and skip over the 2d aspect both in design and execution.

See also, Iris van Herpen, but I'm a bit tired of her being constantly upheld as the example, all her 'clients' are art collectors these clothes aren't worn and I don't think they're even designed to be.

Since I've yet to see any fashion house set up a lab or otherwise more technical facility (and no, designing clothes for the Metaverse does not count ) I'm anticipating the disruptors to the status quo may very well come from outside the field (let's all invest in a textile innovation startup 😎).

I'm inclined to agree that future innovations will be technical rather than creative. I'd love to be proved wrong as I'm weary to my bones with revisiting the decade-before-the-last one, but I just can't see it happening. That's not because I think we've run out of new looks - call me old fashioned but I believe it's part of a designer's job to use their imagination, but I don't believe there's an appetite for the genuinely new any more, at least not right now, so why would they bother?

I had the pleasure of visiting a coffee shop the other day that had real, printed newspapers and came across two articles, one in the Times and one in the Telegraph that had me thinking it was time to break out of my Guardian rut. I can't remember which article was in which newspaper, but one was about the slow death of real shops and its impact not only on our shopping habits but also on our interest in new ideas - which is something dear to my heart at the moment.

The other article - and I'm going off at a tangent now but never mind - was about the ankle length skirt, something I've not worn for a while, but that might have me rummaging through the cupboard in a few weeks time. I've also seen a Dior advert featuring a pleated grey maxi skirt with a short, fitted jacket that could even snap me out of my oversize blazer obsession.

And sorry I can't find either article now, let alone give you a link as they're both paywalled.

yes Bo the second hand section was minute, I ended up there more by complete inability to think and just stumbled upon it and went inside hiding from my teenager that was sulking and tired after we missed one of the train connections.
you left me thinking Flo, long pleated skirt and fitted jacket … now I have in my head a sort of Mexican el Zorro type person …