Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: Always Have a Ball Gown at the Ready in Celebration of Your Enemy's Demise

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

Consignment shops, Vintage, and Restaurants

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Previous threads:

Un

Deux

Trois

Quatre

Cinq

Six

Sept

Huit

Neuf

Dix

Onze

Douze

Treize

Quatorze

Quinze

Seize

Talking about fabric mixes, whatever happen to rayon? I'm reviving some 80s (I think) trousers because I'm obsessed with full length all over again. But that's for another post, the point is these are a linen-rayon mix. I've been known to be unkind sometimes about linen trousers but these are drapy rather than droopy and have a really nice silky feel which I'm assuming is all down to the rayon. I've not seen it in ages - is it still around or did it get replaced by viscose?

I like those loafers bani, great find.

I'm trying to remember properly, I think viscose is a subset of rayon and for awhile the names were used interchangeably so by today's standards it might be viscose?

I think Rayon largely disappeared because it's supposed to be an alternative to cotton and cotton is already cheap and plentiful where viscose has a clear advantage over silk.

Rayon probably is more environmentally responsible than cotton (I'd have to deep dive properly for that claim but these sort of half natural fabrics tend to be when you take everything into account and cotton really isn't all that green as people think) but it probably doesn't feel that intuitively to the average consumer so it has an image problem as well. I would not be surprised if it just exists under a different name now.

I think you might be right about rayon evolving into viscose. From memory, it was one of those early fabrics where the source is natural but the processing involves so many chemicals that the point becomes moot. But as you say, you could make a similar argument about cotton.

I’m enjoying the new thread and hoping not to simply lurk as usual. Slightly in awe of your 12h of train/tube/Oxford St in brand new Birkenstocks red with no ill effects. I did the same on saturday and was glad of my well worn Tevas as well as my remarkably ungrumpy 6 year old even as I dragged her to multiple perfume shops. Teva’s fashionable (or maybe fashion adjacent?) moment has been and gone but they work for me. Good job too as I’ve a sneaking feeling I have only one other pair of shoes for the next fortnight due to a packing oversight ahead of a move.

My hot weather weekend outfit was a linen blend black jumpsuit I have worn to death over multiple boiling summers in Paris. Plus a brief dinner change into a Cos miniskirt with an interesting feature I’ve not seen before - the zip is accessed via a opening the waist up via a clasp at the outer edge of one of the pockets and then forms the inner edge of the pocket. Not sure how easy that is to follow but it makes for a very fitted look with no visible zip. The 6yo declared the colours (blocks of blue, white and yellow) ‘weird’ but then I didnt rate her peppa pig dress either…

Interesting conversation about silk. I’m always too nervous about ruining items with sweat to test anything silk in very hot weather. Must be my vest avoidance to blame. Linen is usually my go-to. That said, I’ve a couple of 10+ year old polyester H&M sleeveless dresses that see a lot of summer wear. They are wafty enough for even famously sweaty fibres to not be an issue, so I’d just have to mitigate their terrible environmental credentials by keeping and wearing them forever.

Flo, iirc viscose requires extra chemical processing which made Rayon the 'better' pick of the two. I think the base material is also waste material, wood pulp, some other plant fibres and I think also some waste material from cotton production and that probably also works in the eco credentials favour as cotton's issues mostly lie around the amount of water required to grow it and pesticides.

The chemical processing is the one sticky but in the chain. But you now have trademarked viscose fabrics like Lenzig Ecovero that claim to be made with a clean (but probably cleaner) chemical process and I think it's also all EU sourced and made. A lot of the Scandi brands use it and Mind The Maker and Atelier Brunette sell some of the fabrics with interesting patterns but I do find it a bit €€€. I can get really high quality Belgian linen for that price or less that's also entirely sustainably sourced and made locally but it is a bit apples and oranges.

French, yeah synthetic has a rep for being super sweaty but all active wear is synthetic it's really down to how it's made. Boring as it sounds wearing the things you have is the best way but I'm too fickle to commit to that. The Cos skirt closure sounds quite intriguing, it's something I'd expect in couture.

Interesting. I wish I could get my head around all this eco science - that's not going to happen but I will never understand how cotton gets away with almost a free pass when you consider its history and the way it's produced even now. Plus some of it is just shit.

I think I might be softening towards linen trousers 😀

I never buy silk shirts new 1frenchfoodie so I don't worry too much about the cost or about ruining them. So far, they're still quite easy to pick up in charity or vintage shops and and, because they've often been saved for best they're usually in mint condition. I buy them large so they never fit too closely.

Rayon is viscose. Americans still use it I think, back in the day I distinctly remember labels used to be 100% viscose for European market and 100% rayon for American market. I think they might be using viscose more now and in any case there are so many brand names for regenerate fibres these days. However I suspect the word rayon would have been used more for a shiny sort of viscose fabric to begin with since it was used interchangeably with “artificial silk” when it was invented.

if Flo likes the loafers I must be on to a good thing ;) fingers crossed for the autumn!

Ive sewn myself a lined tote bag to try and get in the groove, very pleased with myself. Took foreeeever. Don’t look closely at the stitching.

Foodie I do not understand how that zip works 🤯😂but like the sound of both outfits!

All the hot weather dressing chat seems utterly pointless upon waking this morning to 12C and drizzle. British summer, amirite…

Another one here who is often confused by the eco-creds and sweatiness-potential of these new synthetic fabrics (can I call them synthetics, or is there a better catch-all term? bani said regenerate fibres - not heard that before, sounds a bit Blade Runner to me)

I admit that I am avoid all viscose, but am apparently open to Lycocell and Tencel, especially in blends. Agree with flo that cotton is not the best ethically or environmentally, but I definitely need to de-condition myself from prioritising it.

bani good job on the loafers and handmade tote bag. Lined no less! I have not ventured anywhere near making stuff now I’m away from my cheap Asian tailors, but I hope that I can get into it at some point. Given the 73 toddler interruptions I just faced while writing this, I think it’ll be a while 🙄

You know they make children's sewing machines, apparently you can start as early as three (it all sounds a bit child labour to me but who knows maybe there's a capable tailor hiding in that toddler ).

I've heard cellulose based fabrics used for things like lyocell and Tencel but I think technically some natural fabrics like linen and cotton are cellulose based too 🤷 I tend to refer to them as semi-synthetic. Regenerative fabrics sounds very impressive but also a bit greenwashy, maybe? Agree with cotton, look into too closely and you run away terrified crying blood diamonds.

The cotton industry has got some great PR spinners, the organic cotton and better cotton initiative are great covers. Without fail every natural fabrics thread on here goes on and on about how great cotton is. It's funny though because it used to be that cotton was more expensive than linen and cotton was the thing everyone desired and linen was relegated to the peasants.

Well done on the tote bag Bani, I made one too last year out of some coated linen. The top stitching is equally atrocious, I tell myself it's the machine not my lack of skills. This delusion is probably the thing that has stopped me buying a better machine so far...

I can't believe we're only 2 pages into this thread but we've already touched on two of the great mysteries of S&B:
The attraction of exposing your skin to cook in the sun.
How the cotton industry gets away with it.

As for top stitching, what an absolute bastard. I used to tell myself it was all my machine's fault until Mr Flo had a go and instantly did it better than me.

Just say the word Flo and we'll all come over and help you "move in" MrFlo the topstitching extraordinaire underneath the patio ⚒️ the talented bastard 🧐

Surely the cook your skin in the sun conundrum isn't that big of a mystery, a tan makes you look thinner and on MN S&B thin is always in and there's a disturbing amount of the thinner the better thing that permeates MN as a whole.

I have to admit I'm kind of shit at remembering the evil that is cotton myself. It's just such a default material, and for some things the alternatives are just crap, as much as I like my silk boxers they're not a viable alternative for the familiar comfort of cotton underwear. I've tried other fibres like bamboo but I just don't like them on my skin.

Oh I know, I know but it just looks so uncomfortable - cooking skin I mean. I just want to stick a jacket round their shoulders.

I do wear cotton myself by the way, but then I'm a Bad Person.
It's just the synthetic = bad, cotton = good mindset that drives me nuts.

Not that it helps you but I enclose a photo from my 1970:s sewing book, chapter on materials - viscose in all its variations is an artificial fibre in the subcategory regenerate (unlike synthetic fibres and non-organic fibres the book says). And I have found the term regenerate fibre on Wikipedia but not as an article on itself like, just buried in the article on viscose I think. It doesn’t sound greenwashy in Swedish but I take the point on the word regenerate 😁

Cotton to be fair is an amazing material. The problem is surely our wastefulness more than anything else. I remember years ago an article in natural geographic about cotton romanticising about how the three wise men might have worn sumptuous cotton robes while the baby Jesus was swaddled in linen and maybe even silk (I doubt that). I complain about wastefulness while having tried to make a skirt today and probably done everything wrong so = wasteful.

Don’t knock tanning today, I am currently a summery beige and thus looking alive and not semi-dead.

Cotton is hard to go past and very hard to remember it’s not that great- I admit I bought a cheap polyester top from Kmart (which you probably don’t know) a couple of months ago, a knit Henley so I can just pull it down to breastfeed. But the feel of it gave me the absolute ick (I do know not all polyester is like that) and I bought another bci cotton one from target which makes me much happier to wear. Such a waste, I still have it and it’s turned out to be the most single use thing I’ve bought recently, I guess it will be charity shop… I have no issues with bamboo though and don’t mind viscose either.

I take comfort that no way would dhs topstitching be better than mine! Like everyone here we are going through the long period of everyone sick and I’m the lucky one at home with them so add in the baby and despite the mat leave no active sewing unfortunately.

I don't think it's just wastefulness, I think it's also that a lot of the cotton on the high street is absolute shite and doesn't last. But I agree there's waste involved in sewing, bani. I probably end up liking and wearing less than 1 in 3 of the things I make. Hopefully that'll improve.

Life sounds very full-on for you time, hope you're enjoying the baby.

I have a very nostalgic soft spot for Kmart (at least I assume it's the same as the US chain), it was the first huge supermarket I have memories of on holiday and they had lots of gaudy clothes that my mother hated and I loved. Ditto for the toy section, supermarkets only ever sold boring food items back home it was magical, I tell ya. I think I whined more about leaving a Kmart than Disney World.

Yeah, sewing as an individual is far from green. Especially when you make lots of toiles in your perfectionist rage too. Don't get me started on the amount of plastic involved in all the notions and haberdashery items.

I do pull old toiles apart and reuse the fabric, sometimes piecing things together but it's slowly approaching piecing together too many pieces stage so I'm going to have to source some cheap cheap cotton, charity shops don't stock curtains or sheets here (it all goes to industry to be recycled into insulation). I have a better track record of wearing what I sew but usually after wearing it a few times I find things that need to be changed/fixed and then they can end up living in the mending pile for too long

Totally forgot to post what I came here for, this Vogue Paris Street Style video with Sophie Fontanel commentary (worth watching for her alone). I'd seen a couple of the previous videos in this series but a lot of it has been very urgh, especially the early ones they'd clearly sought people out on Instagram and they'd gotten dressed especially for the occasion. Wasn't really street style at that point and the previous commentators they invited on were also of very mixed qaulity. This was the first actual good one and I really enjoyed her thoughts on how things have changed with style codes in Paris and especially found her take on new classic dressing interesting.

These aren't my usual threads but just in case it's of any help to anyone Margaret Howell has an outlet in York at the Designed Outlet just of A64 where the park and ride is.

Love the video Bo! Am at 4.58 and have a comment - she says that now you can’t deviner what class a person is from by their shoes (everyone wears trainers bla bla) but I sort of disagree, it’s morphed into brands I think? Back to watching.

Yes, I'm a bit wary of contradicting THE Sophie Fontanel but I do think she's missing something with viewing trainers as just trainers. It's not the great democratiser as she seems to paint imho, there's a whole hierarchy about having the right shoe at the right time.

It's a shame because she could have tied that in nearly to her new classic talk. Streetwear (as in the fashion movement very much tied into US hip-hop culture not things people are actually wearing on the street and these videos attempt to capture, albeit heavily editorialised) presents itself as being the cutting edge of fashion but in the current fashion sphere it's actually the most traditional and very much a continuation of one day you're in the next day you're out fashion as usual which is very consumist focused and not all that artistic, yet coasts on an artistic aesthetic.

No other subculture is as aligned with the old model of what's in what's out, hierarchies of influence and status anxiety quite like streetwear. It's no surprise that the traditional fashion crowd embraced it so eagerly even if their existing clientele had little interest in it (and I'd love to see the bottom line sheets on these course directions), it's predictable and therefore able to be manipulated to their interests (money, mostly). As much as it raised surprised eyebrows to install these streetwear designers into heritage houses it really isn't that surprising, it's very much the same thing just different aesthetics.

Also forgot to mention I really did enjoy her comment on that brands make their reputation in the secondhand market and that you need fickle fat cats at the top to constantly consume and dispose which sort of ties into the above.

I have not watched the video yet, I am saving it for when I have a few min spare.
times Sounds like you have your hands full 😀.
As it turns out, I might be going in a couple of months to Flo’s wedding destination 😉, the hedonistic island. A close friend has a celebration there, I have never been and it might even involve a night out … I am completely clueless as to what to wear … I might use Vinted/eBay as I do not intend to spend money on something new … I want something really fun, a bit more out there than what I would normally wear, but still be me, if that makes sense.
It is not yet fully confirmed yet but I am already having fun planning outfits/or shall I say stressing unnecessarily.

Celebration of a close friend, you say, hmm, is Flo finally getting married to the cabana boy and only inviting Red 🧐

Well if you do go Red, please check out this shop for me that I discovered while browsing for hot hot weather clothes. I really like a dress on there but it's on sale and they don't accept returns on sale (not legal in the EU but I just can't be bothered to argue with them so don't order at all instead 🤷) so it would be great to know if the clothes are actually any good in RL and worth the price tags. And it's probably also good for browsing their online shop for inspiration on what to look for on Vinted/eBay.

I can't keep up with my life on this thread: Mr Flo is under the patio and I'm a fugitive in Ibiza with toyflo and Red?

I've no idea where to start with that outfit Red but it sounds fun - how long have we got to sort it out?

JanePrentiss thanks for the reminder about the Margaret Howell outlet.

All I can say about Sophie Fontanel is that, if she thinks trainers have democratised footwear, she's clearly never been on S&B.

Yeah your fictional life sounds about up to date Flo, just make sure that toyFlo is terrible at topstitching, otherwise we'll need to start up the cement mixer again 👷‍♀️

I don't think Sophie Fontanel was making the point that trainers were great democratisers, it was more a poor example to underwrite a valid point that you used to be able to discern someone's status by their shoes but now everyone wears trainers so there's no distinction. Which is sort of true but also misses a bit of trainer hierarchy nuance and the madness that is sneakerheads.

I must admit they all look pretty similar to me but then I don't wear them. You only have to spend 2 minutes on a trainers thread to learn otherwise - you can smell the anxiety.