Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: Always Have a Ball Gown at the Ready in Celebration of Your Enemy's Demise

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

Consignment shops, Vintage, and Restaurants

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Are you back from New York already Sophie? Did you have a nice time? Incidentally I had been thinking of you and curly hair (didn't feel like reviving the old thread either) to recommend K18, it's been amazing for my hair, it's like all the benefits of a protein treatment but none of the risk or sometimes annoying side effects. I'm still trying to figure out how to incorporate it with my styling products but even without it's really well behaved, very shiny, soft but still very lively (if that makes sense, sort of that post protein treatment boost feeling, sometimes hair can be super sleek but feel weird and flat) and the frizz reduction is rather something to behold. It's very pricey but a rare thing that lives up to the hype, I got it from All Beauty at a decent-ish price.

I think we've discussed it before that the very polished/straightened look is also the more acceptable look where you live, so that skews it a bit further for you. A lot of influencers with curly hair tend to style it down to wavy hair IME, which makes sense if you want things picture perfect and predictable. I do have a curling/waving iron, it's very anti CG method and all that (but you already now my opinions on slavishly following that) but sometimes just curling that top layer or just the fringe gives it the look I want.

Makeup helps to a point, but I think it's also face dependant, some people just have a very striking face peeping out underneath their curls and others can sort of be overtaken by them.

The only influencers I can think of (but that's just down to me not paying attention to any) is Garance Doré (who I don't think is all that active anymore) and Violette_FR (who is technically speaking makeup but she does lean into fashion), the latter really leaves her hair to be what it is. But as much as this soft tousled je ne sais quoi hair is what most Parisians wear, they do tend to go to the hairdresser's for a proper 'brushing' for special events and it's very polished and done. I have some YouTube tutorials tucked away somewhere if you're interested, might be some with day looks here and there too.

Thank you both. Will respond properly but blueSummerBaby, just looked up Coco Maisonave on you tube and insta and there's a lot of her in lingerie (albeit with curly hair 😆😆). More lingerie than clothes. Is that the right one?!

Curiosity got the better of me and now I've Googled her too, ahem, yes, it seems very Maison Thirstrap. Her YouTube seems to have more clothes but by the looks of it it's mostly her dressing and undressing down to her underwear again under the guise of trying things on. I never understand these channels' target audiences 🤷 reminds me of the time I innocently clicked on a pedicure tutorial and about midway through they started going on about their Only Fans which apparently showed her doing feet manicure stuff, I was so confused. Who knew men were into cuticle removal and pay for the privilege 😲

Grrr somehow just lost everything I typed.... starting again.

BlueSummerBaby, thank you. you make some really good points. My haircut is now decent after a long time as finally found someone in Greece who can cut my hair (well only been once and hope he can do it a second time...). And yes, sometimes I feel my hair does look too big/messy for an outfit. Particularly if my top is patterned (which is unusual for me). Patterns and curly hair don't go well on me: too much going on. So with that top I've learnt that I need my hair tied up.

Am also intrigued by all the hair do-s you mention. I must experiment as I either wear my hair down or in a bun (like a ballerina). and that's it.

I'm laughing at your Coco Maisoneve description Bo. She does wear quite a bit of make-up so maybe I need to add some more.

Yes had a lovely, lovely time in New York Bo, thanks for asking. We were there for just over a week. And yes I've heard good things about K18. I've still got a big bottle of Aphogee which I'm using with rice treatments so I might buy K18 when finished the Aphogee.

Yes you are right about the wavy hair - unless someone has really coily hair, they tend to play it down. I like an English girl called Lydia Tomlinson and of course her hair is straight and I just everything looks so chic on her and my overall look in a similar outfit is more mop/toilet brush. Maybe the key is straightening the fringe a little bit so at least there my hair is a bit neater.

K18 is more of a competitor to Olaplex than protein treatments. It doesn't have much protein in it, not enough for me to think the improvement is down to proteins anyhow. Bit closer to rise rinses though.

Well now I've Googled Lydia Tomlinson and I think it's just a case where a lot of it looks slick but none of it is accidental, right poses, editing software, etc. Not just down to her hair anyhow, she doesn't look like that in RL either if it's any commiseration.

Here's some day hairdos inspiration, the playlist also has some makeup ideas.

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbtH5PZHbIrudCTyGT-egkz-hRo_ycz0I

Hilariously on the hair tutorials they blow dry wavy hair straight, then curl it to give waves and then do an updo, I can vouch for being able to skip those steps, although it's obviously a little less perfected. I had another channel from a French creator, all she did was hair, she had a ridiculous number of interesting chignon ones, she quit at some point but now I can't find the channel at all

I'd also look into braids, if my hair is being really annoying I'll braid it into two braids and pin it to the front where they overlap and intertwine, with a few loose pieces framing the face it's very nice, especially when you've got busier things on on top. I'm also predicting the return of (early-mid 00s, I think) of side swept hair over one shoulder.

Ah I was confused bo. On the olaplex front, I really like the curlsmith bond salve. Have you tried it?

Yes I know you tube and being an influencer is Lydia's full time job so I guess she needs to look super polished. And I am quite often too lazy/in a rush to bother with things like accessories and make up.

Thanks for the you tube link. I will have a look. I'm not quite sure what you mean with the braids - it sounds like Heidi /Swiss yodeller hair. Anyway my hair is now shoulder length and layered so not much room for braids.

I have a party at the weekend so maybe I can figure out something fancy.

Hmm, maybe it is a bit Heidi , it's a bit like attached, my hair usually as frizzy at that too (just before washday, usually if I need to extend it) and it sort of works. With shorter hair you can still braid, this is on wavy hair but you get the idea, I've also seen it braided onto the scalp on the side for a sort of asymmetric look. Can't find many good examples though, I'm guessing I'm not using the right search terms.

Oh don’t worry about American vintage Sophie. I completely forgot about it, it was just a curiosity, in fact I have been twice in that shop since the question but I wasn’t interested in those coats anymore. Sometimes in the spur of the moment I think about certain items but mostly I don’t follow thru which is good as otherwise I would not fit in my house

Ah sorry I didn't mean to insult you Bo. I'm pretty sure it looks good on you if you wear it like that. Actually the first photo is very pretty and similar to a hairstyle I got a hairdresser to do in me years ago for a summer event.

I think we all have these whims red. And the fact that it is so easy to order online and send back now doesn't help (many less things get returned once they get into my house!)

Oh I live the make up artist Andreea Ali who is in one of the videos you attached Bo. She has lovely style too (but straight hair, of course )

• love (not live)

I don't follow any influencers Sophie but I wish I could introduce you to the guy who did my hair when I was about 17. He walked up to me and said 'You should have your hair short' followed by, 'You've got curly hair, why are you wasting your time fighting it?'

At the time I thought he was an arrogant piece of work - which he was. I never went back and carried on trying to iron my hair straight (with newspaper and a real iron ). But what he said about fighting it stayed with me and a year later I went to another salon and asked them to cut it short and to let it curl. And I haven't brushed it since.

It helps that I'm bone idle, plus I've never worked in a sector where a groomed look was required so it's never been an issue.

It could be. She used to be a model so is perhaps not shy! I don't watch the lingerie videos. There was only one when I last looked at her channel and a swimwear one. Perhaps she has changed the direction her social media has gone in. I have some old YouTube videos on a playlist from 1-3yrs ago so maybe scroll back a bit.

Do not worry Sophie, I adored Heidi as a child so I took it as a compliment.

Is Alessandra Ali's natural texture straight though? I suspect she's a serial blow dryer. My hair has never taken well to being straight, with all the best tools and products in the world it'll still unravel and frighten itself into a frizzy mess and frizz definitely looks worse on straight than curly hair. That, along with being very being very put off by all the effort (back then my hair would take over an hour to get straight and then you still needed to use a straightener) meant I never bothered for half a day of straight hair but I'm regularly amazed to discover that people that I thought had stick straight hair actually have textured hair, theirs just behaves better when straight, but I remain in awe that people put that much time and effort in.

I do get it, I will always have envy of people's hair that is easily styled but I also think part of embracing (your) curly hair is that it's sort of got a personality of its own that'll read more messy than polished. And when it comes to being photographed it's just a bit of a raw deal unless someone is prepared to Photoshop you. Just compare a lightly retouched picture of lovely Audrey Tatou whose hair I assume looked amazing in person but on the raw images really doesn't showcase the effort that hairstylist put into it.

She's not French, but Anouk Yve has the most fabulous style and curly hair: instagram.com/anoukyve?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

I remember months back Elle was after a belt, the above lady has just launched her own collection. Nice pared back designs, expensive but not at the Celine price point.

I like Lydia Tomlinson but agree with Bo in that it's heavily orchestrated. It's her full time job, so a lot of work will go into every photo. It's also a little safe and samey.

I think I got the tip here, but I'm really enjoying following Amy Smilovic, the founder of Tibi, on Instagram. A lot of information on her stories on how to develop your own style.
instagram.com/amysmilovic?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Hello Sophie hope bo has answered the technical side of curly hairdom. I just wanted to offer my take on your dilemma. All my life I have had unbelievably straight hair (no tongs no hair dryer, just it grew that way) and all I ever wanted was to have curly hair - admiring every head of curls I saw, from Afro to ringlets! After my first attempt to join the curly hair crowd resulted in a deeply unflattering perm I decided I better just accept what nature had given me. Since menopause my hair is very slightly wavy and having got used to dead straight hair, I nonetheless like it (this is more directed at Parisiennes who’ve met me recently who might think: your hair isn’t that straight!). Basically the grass is always greener and it really is simpler to try to accept what you have. If you look at the Sartorialist’s account on Instagram you will see many beautiful women with curly hair; I love how he photographs people who appear pretty normal and yet he sees something in them (they’re not all supermodels!). It might help you to avoid influencers and find your own groove. (Please God I don’t sound like a patronising so and so.)

As far as tweed skirts go, eBay is brilliant, and just looking in charity shops (I really should go to more museums etc 😉 but find it more compelling to swerve and go for textile archeology in any and every charity shop I pass!)

And I love a messy Heidi look, so cool, with straight hair it could look a bit too perfect (except when it doesn’t but YKWIM).

I have not worn plaits for far too long … tonight I am going to an exhibition’s private viewing, perhaps the perfect occasion (Goes off and ponders)

Hi Floisme, I’m also lazy when it comes to straightening my hair plus I don’t actually think straight hair suits me that well. Like Bo's, my hair takes ages to straighten and always seems frizzy at the end (unless I go to the salon - and I HATE the salon).

Also had a similar experience to your 17 year old self: went for a trim and came out with a pixie cut! It was easy and fun but I missed longer hair after a few years. 😱 at newspaper and iron!!! Hope you have light coloured hair so you don’t get print all over it…

Well either way she was very beautiful BlueSummerBaby and I liked her hair.

I’m pretty sure that andreea Ali has straight hair * Bo* but I also know that she styles it every wash with her Dyson airwrap. And yes you are right, have to embrace the kind of messy hair (Carrie in SATC always looked great with her hair - but now she also straightens and re-curls/-waves). Also photos are a problem for me.

I think so many people have textured hair (well here anyway) and that’s why they have to go to the salon twice a week. I guess if you like the salon then it’s not so much effort - but it is money.

Thank you ThisNameIsDifferentFromTheLast. Anouk is great inspiration! Actually think she just got a haircut and said something like “my hair is very long and frizzy so time for a cut”! Thank you also for the Amy Smilovic. I will take a look.

MM47, thank you for the very wise words. No you don’t sound patronising at all. In fact you’ve all been so lovely in taking the time to respond to my hair issue. I will definitely try to view my hair in a different way (cos I really do want to embrace my curls and love them) and ignore all the very blonde ironed straight hair here!! The Sartorialist has some really great photos and very interesting comments from the photographer. Thanks.

Must mention that my youngest DD has the most lovely curly hair, which can also look messy if she sleeps on it badly etc etc. Recently one of her friends decided to straighten it for her and the other mum said “see how pretty she looks now”. I was really upset with this comment. Luckily DD wasn’t within earshot.

Hope you enjoy your exhibition Red!

Ha ha don't worry Sophie my hair ironing days are in the distant past! Those were pre-straightener times when even owning a hairdryer was rare (at least among my friends) and girls regularly came to school with singed hair. It was a rite of passage. I don't even brush or comb it now.

That's a really sad comment from that mum about your daughter. I don't really understand how we've got here - it seems to be far deeper than curly hair going out of fashion for a while.

Gossip side track, The Sartorialist and Garance Doré were a blogger power couple back in the day. When they split up it was the first sort of proper drama in the fashion/street style bloggersphere that had people paralysed in shock and I think it even made its way into 'proper' newspapers (if you consider the Daily Mail etc. as proper). But they both didn't let out a peep about it, I think they're still regularly asked about it (a very anticlimactic we just grew apart type thing iirc). Ah those were the good old internet days (take that weird Stratton hotel threads that were revived this morning)

I agree that it was a sad comment from the other mum, although it obviously wasn't meant to be disparaging. I only got my curls with hormones at around twelve so it was a really weird time. Before that it was super straight, think Asian hair, just dark brown (well I was blonde at first but going by pictures my hair was a lot finer then). Anyhow at twelve I had a lot of thick hair so it was a huge mass of curls were a lot more impressive than they are now and strangers (always with straight hair) would compliment me on it all the time but hairdressers were always determined to make it as straight as possible and then there were always the comments about how much better my hair would look straight. I never knew what to make of it on top of a changing body but it has always struck me as odd that curly hair is fair game to comment on that gives little care for your own preference. Thankfully my mother was very curl positive.

Flo, WRT to how we got here, I do think it's the advent of photography, look back in (European) history and curls are always a desirable part of female hairstyles. As cameras became more common it's become all about straight hair and I think it definitely has to do with how hair photographs/reflects light.

Yea I was not impressed with the comment Flo (even though I know she didn't mean it badly). I only brush my hair now when it's wet.

It's a really interesting question about how we got here with curly hair. I never considered Bo's point about photos , which is very valid and true. Plus straight hair is a lot easier - you can wear a helmet, get blown about in the wind and just brush it and it's fine. Everyone seems to want to be super groomed these days (especially with all the social media) and straight hair is much more conducive to that look.

I'm now out and about, with my curls and a bit more make up than I wear normally (put on a nude lipstick and feel really "made up" ).

And yes of course I consider the DM a proper paper bo ** It's where I get all my gossip from and have my DCS wondering how I know so much about the kardashians

I have to disagree with straight hair always looking well groomed (because the grass is always greener…). I have dead straight hair, which would never hold a curl or any sort of style. On day 2 after a wash it looks awful and dull and needs to be put up. My friend with curls always looks lovely as she can scrunch her hair back into life, so she always looks more polished. I look polished for approximately one hour post blow dry.

Yeah I don't think the thinking is that straight hair automatically looks more groomed but that's it far easier staring to point for hair styling and it often gets viewed as the default starting point and most hair care products until very recently were made with straight hair in mind. Curly hair is always expected to be straightened before it gets styled. And I would agree that to a certain extent straight hair is a bit boring and often needs something additional, specialised haircut, expert colour, blow dry for volume it often doesn't have, etc. to stand out where curly hair is less likely to be reliant on that. Anyhow, yes, very much grass is always greener.