Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: Do not ask the kock about les préservatifs in the food.

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

---

Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

Consignment shops, Vintage, and Restaurants

---

Previous threads:

Un

Deux

Trois

Quatre

Cinq

Six

Sept

Huit

Neuf

Dix

Onze

Douze

Treize

Quatorze

and also, agnes B for instance achieves a "tribe" differently, right? Whenever I had anything from her, aways eBay I hasten to add, these are garments that are so interesting. There is always something, some smart tailoring diagonally for a skirt, or an exactly right shirt. I have a cotton jacket that elevates any outfit and fits with everything; it is exceptionally flattering but I cannot for the life of me describe/understand how it does it. So, can you combine MHL/Maison Margiela and something like Agnes B, APC?

I guess, the reason I bring this up is that Agnes B would still fit "the beauty" approach to fashion still, although she sometimes does variations, as well as one can dress white classically, so to say, in MH classic trousers and shirt.

So, if one brand can combine these approaches, can one combine them in one's wardrobe?

I've discussed this before, roughly, fashion design falls in two camps. You have the purists, they would decide everything if it were up to them. The creative process is not ever a democratic process, really, it's top down and authoritarian with a strong belief in their vision and everything flows forth from that, tortured artistic genius and all of that. The other camp are the editors eye, much more interested in clothes as stand alone pieces. As a whole it's less interesting (from a critical analysis POV) but they tend to produce things that fit more seamlessly into an established wardrobe. Not to say that can't be the case for the first, Rick Owens, for example, has a very pronounced look but individually the clothes have range on their own. That kind of happy golden medium tends to be rare but it's why some brands have loyal followings while others can be quite interchangeable in their appreciation.

Agnes B is a former editor and while it's a fashion brand it really is more of a curated shop of items that just happen to be designed by the same team of people. There's definitely scope for mixing and matching between these types of brands, and has been for some time (I'd say somewhere in the 90s it became unfashionable to be dressed head to toe by a single brand/designer) but that probably means it's due a comeback any moment now...

In short, one attempts to invent the next wheel and the other is quite happy reinventing and improving it.

I think how people choose to dress often relates to environment and how you wish to be perceived. As much as people like to proclaim they only dress for themselves there is always an external influence, it's just a balance of how much that matters or not.

To me, your first pic feels the most natural looking and make the most sense for your self described day playing with your DD. It's a situation where how you're wearing your clothes demand a more practical input and remembering to tuck in your jumper at the exact right angle every time you've gone to the loo probably isn't a priority. But if you live among a very image conscious set then you may experience pressure to look as if you're putting an effort into your appearance even when the situation doesn't really demand it. And on the opposite end you could be someone who just enjoys thinking, digesting, dissecting, considering the aesthetics of it all because it gives you joy but then feel pressured to tone it down because your environment equates it to someone having notions, etc.

I like the linked trousers, although side fastening can make the lower stomach area appear more pronounced. I'd probably wear it with oversized soft pieces like your third picture, slightly tucked in the middle or side. I think much of their nonchalance quality does depend on how it's worn in boots and the excess scrunched up fabric it produces, giving it a sculptural quality as soon as chunky footwear makes way for something else those trousers may feel a little less versatile than they would be currently.

Yes, I've always been puzzled by the use-belt-to-highlight waist advice. It's never worked for me even at my thinnest.

No-one should be harassed, trolled, doxxed etc. But have seen a fair bit of eyebrow-raising behaviour from influencer/stylist types that is absolutely fair game for comment/criticism. I also think it can feel horribly personal when your brand is some version of your own self - I wouldn't enjoy it either.

Yes, definitely, bitching about influencers' lack of scruples is how I first ended up on MN and also where I first encountered the ever wise Flo. But that's been many years and having never been a true follower and more of an observer of the phenomenon (and getting increasingly irritated by it) I'm directing my ire more towards the platforms and legislators who just aren't making any moves to regulate it now. Privacy concerns wrt minors is an obvious thing that really should have seen some sort of meaningful legislation by now. Considering how horrible people are to each other online now I really struggle to see why anyone would throw themselves in voluntarily at this point, women and/or minorities especially. Which in itself is a troublesome sorting system for the next aspiring batch of them.

Thanks bo, for the time taken to write an explain. It's all a bit muddled up in my head. I would imagine very few people could buy from true fashion "auteurs" and it wouldn't work as total clothing even for people constantly in the limelight, I would think... I feel like I know so little about clothes design and fashion that to know a little bit more I need to know massively more...

Thank you for advice on the trousers too.

I can't stand social media so never followed an influencer... But watched a nice film about one on Mubi recently. She was an exercise guru though, not a fashion one

I'll post some more pictures of my trousers; this is my weakest point and maybe it can be my point of entry into more understanding about other things as well

I remember those influencer threads bo. Oh boy was I cross. I was a huge fan of some of those early bloggers / vloggers who simply wrote because they had interesting things to say. There was a real punk / DIY spirit in the air, and then along came the monetisers and the shillers and blew them out of the water. I won't lie, I find it hard to feel much sympathy if some of them have had their fingers burned but I take the point about who the real culprits are.

I hope you all had a lovely Christmas despite the disruption and bouts of illness.

The beetroot salmon went down a treat.

Catherine - I hope you’re continuing to recover; sorry to hear about the car. Glad to hear that the skirt was a hit. I don’t really rate Jo Malone for longevity, I think there are better options in that wheelhouse.

I’ve never even tried on MH. I like the aesthetic, but I feel I’d struggle to pull it off and I do think that it’s partly height related. When you’ve had a lifetime of trousers swinging around you ankles when they’re not meant to, it’s hard to feel comfortable with doing it deliberately. If you’re taller than average the clothes lose some of that oversized vibe and the you lose the deliberate nature of the look and it starts to just look a bit dowdy. I’m really enjoying all the discussion on style.

On trousers for tall people it is probably what started my fondness for designer clothes. For the first few years of my working life I would buy trousers in Zara and have them let down and a false hem put on, still not a bad strategy. Discovering unhemmed trousers was a revelation. I agree that Max Mara have a very strange thing going on where the trousers are long, but the sleeves are short. It’s less apparent in the main line, but in the diffusion lines it is definitely a thing, some of the coat sleeves are very definitely bracelet length on me. I’m still unsure whether it’s a deliberate styling choice. It’s still really difficult IMO to find long trousers on the high street outside of Tall ranges even though populations are getting taller. It’s worth keeping an eye out for Joseph, Lou Lou studio, Acne and Humanoid second hand. I like those Carrier Company ones, but note the model is 5’6 and the inseam is 32.5 so you might be restricted to wearing them tucked in. I think they’d work with the knitwear in your jeans photos. If you order them I’d love to hear how they are in real life

Love the cashmere dress. I completely missed the Zara sales, oh well.

Flo - Good luck with holding your nerve on the sale stuff

I did venture in to our fancy deparment store. I caved on the Sangle bag as I think it’ll be useful for the next year and also got a Loewe linen dress which is giving off MH vibes in these photos actually! The discounts in store can be really random. Certain brands that are minimally discounted on line seem to be slashed in store, I suspect they don’t do that well in Ireland. Loewe and Celine were straight to 70% off. Mind you it’s been another poor year for retail so maybe they just want to clear some stuff out. Other than that I’m eyeing some flat knee high boots and some S/S items that I have plenty of time to mull over.

Interesting to read the chat on Instgram stylists. I agree the ones that I’ve seen are very much in the vein of “replicate my style” and that style is anchored by some statement jewellery, particular footwear, slogan t-shirts etc. Speaking of Instagram, I completely agree that the use of children by inluencers is very overdue for some sort of regulation. I see them frequently being used to advertise products, often directly, frequently indiectly. It seems akin to child acting but with none of the protections that would usually be put in place and no payment either. I find some of the practices extremely shady and I dread to think of the impact on some of these children who’ve had every intimate moment from birth uploaded for public consumption and comment.

And the all important salmon. As I've said before, no fear for the privacy of my children as my influencing career seems u likely to take off unless I improve my photography skills.

Yes, Flo, I remember, many feathers were spit on that thread. At the time it was very revealing just how much was going on undisclosed between the consulting, affiliate sales, undisclosed ads, etc. I think that's a lot more common knowledge and (poorly) regulated to some extent these days so people either accept it or just remain unaware because they're vulnerable. It's for the latter why I feel it's up to larger bodies to regulate as it's clear individual influencers aren't going to. I recently saw a Panorama episode flick past about pay now, pay later schemes. I didn't realise it was so poorly regulated in the UK and how tied up into influencers it seems to be, combined with pandemic boredom that seems like a recipe for disaster.

Salmon look great, glad to hear it went down well.

Spooky, I tried on that dress in Le Bon Marché, when last in Paris but it was unfortunately drowning me, glad it has a happy home with you, Elle, as it I really liked it, fabric was really nice if I remember correctly. Our one and only luxury department store is similar with disparity in discounts, I think it's because they have agreements on online discounting but not in store. Unfortunately they really don't stock much interesting here.

I think the replicate my stylers also seem to be very much connected to something you can source from the high street and it's very micro trend driven with lots of low cost purchases. It's a very specific audience they're targeting, it's really not as organic as it appears at first glance.

I'd like to see some EU regulations on child privacy and SM, France has some rules in place but it's rarely acted on. I'm still confused why it isn't treated as a priority, although I'm definitely sensing a lot of different parties picking up the influence of Silicon Valley and turning it into a political talking point as the new boogey man, but it's only really since they figured out it's hurting their election results

I saw this coat on Facebook and for some reason thought of you lot

I do love a good statement coat pretty not much love for Facebook though per my previous rantings

Hope all's well with you and that you had an enjoyable Christmas

Someone has found out where to get it.... It's surprisingly inexpensive.

Bodhi2000 Women Fashion Printed Wool Coat, Autumn and Winter Long Sleeve Lapel Two Button Wool Coat Brown Lovely https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09KLXH3M5/ref=cmswwrawdoonavTaa_KC5FF2X8QBPJM25RXWB1

Oh I bloody love that coat prettybird - I may have to order it. Not very Margaret Howell but hey, that's me.

At that price one does begin to wonder if it's doll sized or a photoshopped image. Very wasteful and all that but I'm kind of here for the expectations vs reality reveal of it all...

Further investigation has found reviews that suggest that they're knock-offs and nothing like the images. Which given that it's a Chinese company, wouldn't be surprising

I still love the idea of it though

Hello, Mariannes. Back from visiting the family over a very soggy Christmas, during which the dreaded dermatitis returned in the presence of anything woollen or fitted. Good thing I bought the cheaper navy sweater as the posh frock shop sold the one in my size... I checked today. The lower price one is good enough for everyday, and practical too, but a less interesting silhouette. And she's only discounting 20% (nothing off leather bags) which still makes her quite expensive. However, she buys so well for her market that there's not a huge amount of stock left.

Loving the chat and hearing about everyone's sale bargains but having just ripped through 60 odd posts, it's all a bit of a blur.... the beetroot gravlax looked superb though.

Amazing salmon!!!

toElle When/if I get the Carrier Company trousers, will post a pic here. I emailed them to ask about the length, and they said if, when I order and try them, I am not satisfied with the length, they can make a longer pair for me.
I laughed so loud when reading your description of trousers forever flailing around ankles and finding it hard now to accept now an even more ridiculously short cut. That is so true.

I think I formulated my problem. The last two years have been very boring (apologies to people who suffered in the pandemic). This extreme boredom, withdrawal of sensual experience that comes from outside of the house, some kind of flattening of the senses, also due to the computer screen as the main thing at which I look now somehow coalesced around my clothes for me (apart from great socialisation debt, and hunger for exhibitions). My work clothes is not worn much, but even though I find it now too boring. See pic attached, this is quite what I would normally wear. Straight trousers, very straight cardigan. I guess it is difficult, blue on blue and I could make it better with a white shirt seen under the cardigan and on the sleeves, for instance. It is not too bad in reality, nice soft cashmere in the cardigan and very interesting fabric in the trousers that are Zadig & Voltaire and they are a bit funky, they have extra fabric in seams that is slowly getting undone and there are threads hanging from hems, etc. But I think still it is very straight, in many senses, and I need some new shapes in the mix.

The wfh clothes is jeans by default and is also very boring.

So I started looking and of course the trousers' shapes are all new now, there are barrel legs, wide and short, etc. I thought MH would give me some new shapes but ran into problems.. Everything is way too short, what could be hidden in a straight trouser, well, they are just a bit short, in barrel trousers that hit at the wrong length or wide and cropped just looks awful.

I went to the Dressing Agency by Knightsbridge linked in this thread today, and absolutely nothing fit me. It was such a disappointment. Trousers in my size were all low rise, and now in the time of high waist it looks so weird... There was a nice pair of Tom Ford's but low rise and toooo long! Was so definitively outdated.

So I went to oxfam and bought a pair of men's linen trousers that are unhemmed. Oh the joy of mens' trousers, the pockets! The extra fabric giving an extra pocket inside a pocket! They are also straight but tomorrow I am going to post different pics asking you at what length I should hem them

And the question remains, how to make my wardrobe undull?

Sorry for falling off the internet again. A problem with catching up is that the discussion and links send me off through rabbitholes and I fall even further behind!

Catherine - glad you're ok!
Microbius - glad you're with us and appreciating the discussion you initiated! I struggle too with that feeling of not getting it right, and I don't have the figure for fashion either so it's hard finding brands that fit. I also don't mind finding "fashion rules", such as trousers should touch the tops of your shoes, or brown and green are my colours, or always unbutton one button etc. I'm not that naturally creative so I need something to hold on to. It's so interesting to read when Bo and others break down why something works or doesn't work!

For your height (and you seem very slim) I'd agree that Scandinavian brands should fit you. IMO though it's more price than quality with most of them - charging wool prices for polyester like. Your budget seems healthy so the brands Elle suggested might be better bets. And being able to venture into men's wear easily must surely make it better! FWIW I don't think your clothes seem dull. Understated casual? I think you carry them well. What is the excitement you hope to find, without venturing into ruffles and bright colours? If I saw you down town I'd say you're stylish and admire the clothes. You remind me of Swedish Flo www.instagram.com/frkwibergab_sewing/

Elle that beetroot salmon is a lovely colour. Can't believe we've never done this at home with our Polish influences and all - must suggest it some time. Probably because we always buy our gravlax in the shop ;)

The coat with a big face on it is clearly something you have to create yourself by felting wool or something. A two-year project.

Disappointingly the coat hasn't happened - they have a ridiculous buying system of Instagram DM:s and a sparse webshop, and my DM mentioned I didn't fancy black and they asked what colour did I want (keen to sell my the pattern+fabric package of course) and I got distracted then and the worst endorfin hit is gone. Also they sold out of the pattern.

Drafting your own patterns is obviously the smartest thing, esp for trousers, but being a poor seamstress I'd really like to get some experience under my belt by following patterns. Unfortunately I refuse to pay all that money for them with no guarantees it will work. My plan for Christmas was to trace a pair of trousers that fit and make a pair from them. Hasn't happened yet.

prettybird thank you for saving me from myself with the face coat. I needed it in my life for about 90 seconds but then I ate some chocolate and it went away. I'm sure it would look spectacular if properly made but let's face it (pun unintentional), an Amazon made-in-China knock off isn't going to be it.

Xing I'm sorry to hear the dermatitis is still plaguing you and commiserations on the polo neck. I'm sure you'll find the perfect one.

I'm really interested in all this chat about what we can and can't pull off and it's made me realise that, although I think about clothes A Lot, I analyse them less and less these days so, if something's really calling to me, I no longer worry that much about whether or not it suits me. For example, those gaulottes - I thought about it loads before returning but my prime concerns weren't about whether I could carry off all that width (and I know many would say that, at 5'3, I couldn't) they were about how they made me feel and how well the fabric would last. I'm not saying it's the right attitude, I'm just observing how my attitude has shifted these last few years.

Xing sorry to hear the itch is back but glad to hear your days away actually happened.

Hello again Bani, shame about the loss of the coat pattern. Silly Instagram people and their spreading of FOMO cheer.

Flo, yes, it's a bit the same for me. It's only really on here that I suddenly find myself needing to explain and subsequently analyse it. It's not something that requires active thought all that much.

With that said, forgive the armchair psychology ahead, I like to think I don't completely talk out of my ass but probably do 99.9% of the time anyhow so standard random person on the internet disclaimer and all that.

Microbius, these are definitely strange times but it does come across that your sudden interest in your wardrobe (which by all accounts there seems to be nothing really wrong with and wasn't previously a concern) is a sort of displacement activity, seeking to animate something that isn't there right now.

Maybe it is a response to boredom, but equally it can be a head in the sand move.

The thing is, as much as I can personally derive joy or delight from finding some elusive "just the right thing" in sartorial form, let's be real, it's a cheap high and it's not one that sustains or nourishes when the deficit lies elsewhere.

Clothes can also act as costume and briefly offer escapism by switching up your mood to break the monotony but you can't permanently reside there. These (mostly) positive feelings are side effects which are nice to experience in the moment but struggle to deliver when you make them the goal which is more likely to leave you feeling constantly frustrated.

Boredom and depression are close bedfellows, it doesn't take much to tumble into numbness. By no means am I suggesting that's where you are or headed to but I think it's probably worth exploring what's at the root of it, what is it in boredom that scares you?

I'm not asking because I want or expect an answer but it's because I can't really answer how to make something undull as I just don't know what it would take for you to feel that. I only know that superficially saying toss in a bit of print or colour isn't the answer when the question posed may be what makes my wardrobe less dull but really what it comes across is that you're asking is how to get your wardrobe to make life feel less dull.

FWIW, states of boredom, monotonous as they are, can be highly productive but that can also be quite comforting. There is no creativity without boredom, to me they're quite valuable.

xing I’m glad you got away. That’s really annoying about the dermatitis.

Shame about the coat prettybird

I really like the mens trousers microbius and I agree with bani that I wouldn’t rush to change anything, the look reads well.

bani I’d recommend doing the salmon, it’s very easy and actually works out as inexpensive relative to buying.

I can very definitely relate to the idea of using clothes to try to make life feel less dull or to fill a gap. A few weeks ago I was talking about browing skimpy, sexy dressese (Nensi Dojaka) and I see that as absolutely a reaction to being heavily pregnant. Those clothes are the antithisis of my current wardrobe and are sexy and fun…everything that I feel like I’m not at the moment! In a similar fashion I’ve been drawn to a bright pink mini dress that has absolutely no place in my life, pregnant or not. It’s not the dress that I really want, it’s the life where I have somewhere to wear that dress.

I think what you can do really well bo is articulate what might be going on beneath the 'This feels good / doesn't feel good' stuff. I agree about using clothes to fulfill needs in our life and your point Elle, reminded me of my previous fashion identity when I was totally into those below-the knee stretchy tube skirts and Me and Em ruched jersey dresses. It was partly because jeans were so skinny and trousers so low rise that I'd been driven elsewhere, and partly because post menopause I had a curvy body for the first time in my life (pregnancy and breastfeeding aside) and for a while I really enjoyed exploring that through my clothes. And maybe it was also a way of giving the finger to the whole age appropriate dressing business.

Anyway after a few years of it I was bored senseless, plus new, higher waisted trouser shapes came along so I drifted back home. Make of that what you will

When is your baby due Elle?

Thank you all very much or your thoughtful feedback. I will read properly and respond in the evening. Meanwhile, here is hemming the trousers for long people dilemma. Two pics with three distinct lengths, or maybe 4, which one works best?

Elle's comment about the clothes you desire for the life you don't live chimes with me. Flights of fantasy... but my antidote is the best-possible version of everyday clothes. There's quite an interesting thread about what cool mums wear in Active today, but the wish to be considered interesting, stylish, chic isn't really what makes a person cool. Or not IMO.