🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Vanities Are The New Shelf Porn

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

MAY 2020: We're in lockdown and it's doing weird things to our faces

Dermatica is just a pump bottle so easy to use! My skin and me hasn't arrived yet

Wearing makeup forever reboot foundation today, incredibly natural and light

No, MrObama, it's just a new product alongside the other ones. I'm sure you're getting fresh stock.

MrObama I much prefer the packing and also the texture of Dermatica. I’ve decided I pretty much hate the Skin+me packaging as mine is also spurting out too much product (we’ll be back to the 🍆 and the 💦 soon ) I also find the texture a bit heavy/claggy, though as it’s a nighttime product that’s not a major issue, just personal preference.

Plus points for Skin+me: proper assessment rather than one size fits all, good follow up and interaction, helpful customer service, feels much more personal. But now I’ve sorted the questionnaire debacle I don’t really need that level of interaction so I’ll get a paid for prescription from each and then decide, though I’ve booted my next Dermatica to August as don’t want a stockpile of either given the short expiry dates.

@Sallie - Thank you, and are you happy to say what prescription Dermatica gave you? Was it also niacinimide and Azelaic Acid? Also, does it have a short expiry date?

Am liking the Bioderma tinted in my never ending quest to find, 'the one..'

Hi Vaz! Yes as Bo said I've got dry skin and use the Skin Aqua Super Moisture Milk - it's my absolute favourite. The super moisture gel is better for combi/oily skins but I do use that occasionally as well.

I find Frezyderm (tinted or normal) great for under makeup in the summer and Neostrata tinted is the only mineral SPF I've ever liked - I've been using that this year as I'm continuing tret throughout the summer and want fairly bulletproof protection.

MrObama Current dermatica is 0.025% tret, 0.4% niacinamide, no azelaic. Tret goes up to 0.05% in the next drop which seems to be bog standard for them.

Cinnamonbuns i had a huge purge when I started tret (but I was using it for acne, not
Anti-ageing). Purge lasted about 3 months. My derm told me to expect that.

Looks good @queenct My skinandme arrived today, 0.24%tret, 4% niacinamide and 4% azelaic. I'm currently trying to open it

Bo - I see what you mean about the new Altruist - the redness and anti pigmentation which I have ordered

@botemp.. That looks good... Scary and green but good! I've never tried the 'original' altruist

@Tsmummy08.. Thanks for the recommendations... The moisture milk... Do u order on amazon?

Lots to think about (and spend money on) 🤣

@vaz119 Yes, I do usually but think you might have to order from Amazon.jp at the moment....

Used the Skin+Me for the first time last night - much heavier texture than the Dermatica, and like Sallie said it's kind of claggy. Since it's such a low dose of tret (0.015) I will probably jump into using it every night....

MrObama, I know my job on here is to finger wag at needless consumption but I'm far too eager to hear if the new altruist is any good.

My order from Japan should be arriving soon-ish and I've tossed in the skin aqua super Moisture essence version hoping that'll be a good one as it has Tinosorb M in it, one of the (if not the) best uva filters out there.

How are people getting on with the Skin+Me?

They wanted me to try to use it every night but I took a break last night. And I don't know how I have done this but clearly some has got on my upper eyelids just below my brow. I'm naturally quite heavy handed, but I've always been so careful applying the retinols and don't take it above the orbital bone (usually just below as I get some irritation there). I pat it on to my cheeks, forehead and chin and spread it out but never my eye area. Then I usually pump some hand cream onto my hands and rub that in with what will be a tiny bit of the retinol residue of whatever is left on my palms. I'm not aware of then touching my face.

The skin below my brows was flaky this morning. It's a bit pink and there's a mild burn. It was itchy in bed last night. I've put a thin layer of Cicaplast on it and I've applied my cooling eye mask (like a Zorro mask with liquid inside that I keep in the fridge).

Otherwise, I definitely have a couple of spots coming and I very very rarely get spots. Didn't get any with the Dermatica, even at the higher dose (0.05 vs 0.04 now). I wonder if it's the azelaic acid.

I'll take a couple of nights off the retinol then reintroduce it buffered. I guess this is "tret face" and I need to put up with it. Unless it's the azelaic. I've only tried that once, and that was The Ordinary one.

Bo is the Skin Aqua Super Moisture Essence the same as the gel?

No, it comes in a milk, gel and essence form.

For eyes (and corner of mouth), I've always said this on here with tret introduction. Apply lip balm heavily and an eye cream as a barrier of protection before applying Tret, it always travels, no matter how careful you are.

It's interesting though, because most experiences of Tret not from Dermatica have a a comparable trajectory to skin+me and it has had me questioning the Dermatica formulation previously as people got on with it so well without irritation. It didn't make sense to me and now that people who have used both are experiencing the normal Tret introduction irks it's only making me more suspicious. Either Dermatica is doing something super secret that no other Tret manufacturer is doing that leads to almost no irritation Tret and allows them confidently level up the doses in a way that would otherwise be seen as somewhat reckless or they're creatively stating the dosage somehow? I don't know, it's puzzled me for a bit. Do either skin+me or Dermatica come with an INCI?

Ah yes I was doing lip balm and eye cream (Curel in the evenings) but I got lazy with the latter because I keep it in the fridge. Lesson learned.

No I've not seen an INCI list Bo. I did get follow up instructions which said to gently cleanse in the morning and apply a moisturiser (no mention of vitamin C) then SPF. Then in the evening cleanse and apply tret. Then it says after half hour an apply a moisturiser if you feel you need it. So very, very stripped back. (It is quite moisturising, but I've been applying it around 8pm and then applying a bit of Cerave Night-Time just before bed.

Bo - The Altruist - I really really wanted to like it. It comes in a small pump container, and comes out green, which is fairly typical of anti redness products. Clinique used to do an anti redness product and has roughly the same consistency as that. Once you put it on, it goes white and then blends. Unfortunately it ends up with more of an orange tint. Think Oompa Loompa in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Will use it at home as I don't like waste, but the best tinted SPFs I have tried are probably still Neostrata, Heliocare (although you have to get the right shade), and Bioderma.

Skin + Me - had a slight reaction last week and got a spot which seems like an isolated instance, but when I put it on last night, few a bit of a tingle. No redness or itching.

I did want to try Dermatica, and they rejected my photos as. 'too blurry,' which they absolutely weren't, and Skin + Me accepted the same photos. They also wanted an update of my medical history, which is a fair point if there had been a significant period, but it was only last week. I also was then supposed to email someone else to let them know about the update. So many hoops to jump over, I probably won't bother as am happy enough with Skin + Me.

ilove as I have been using up my Heliocare on my neck and decolletage I remember why I don't like it. It's visibly shiny on me. It changes the look of the skin and you can easily see the borders. Do you get that too?

Bo No INCI on either that I can see...

The Skin+Me has a texture and, oddly, a smell that's a bit reminiscent of Retirides (I just did a smell/application test with all three of them)! It's much closer to Retirides than the Dermatica product, which is very light and slightly perfumed. As you suggest, maybe there's a reason for that...

I was using Skin+me on my neck & chest, presuming I’d be fine with such a low dose of tret but I broke out in an itchy rash (could well be the azelaic) so had to stop.

I’m now using it alternate nights on my face with dermatica, still not liking the dispenser or the texture of Skin&me (I think it’s heavier/claggier than retirides Ts but agree about the smell) but it does seem a bit suspicious that dermatica is a much nicer texture and less irritating

Found this on Inci decoder but don’t know where they got that ingredients list from

incidecoder.com/products/dermatica-tretinoin-0-025

They have retirides on there too

incidecoder.com/products/retirides-retirides-1-0-2

Couldn’t find anything for Skin+me.

The Dermatica ingredient list initially confused me even more because tretinoin in gel form tends to be a bit more hard core and reserved for problematic acne as it's quite direct and full on. So it would seem even odder that everyone gets on with it so well with minimal irritation.

Then I remembered that there is such a thing as micro tretinoin, you don't really see it outside of the US. That is also in gel form and considered gentle as the dosage isn't delivered in one go but slowly released over time leading to less irritation (though some may occur). I suspect that's what Dermatica is providing, and if so, that's quite a good deal as the branded stuff from Retin A is not cheap. On an INCI it would say tretinoin, regardless of whether it's micro or normal sized.

I'm not sure about efficacy though, I know you can also get micro encapsulated retinol that is gentler with gradual release and I have seen it speculated that identical doses (in advertised percentage) are less strong and potentially less effective. However, strength isn't everything when it comes to tretinoin for anti-ageing, consecutive use is more defining.

Pupsie - I would get that shine with the non tinted Heliocare, but not the tinted, although only ever had the tinted as a sample so didn't have enough to use anywhere other than on my face IFSWIM.

About the consistency of Skin + Me - it's like Cera Ve cream or Kiehls Ultra Facial Cream. There isn't any scent that I can detect and am fairly sensitive to fragranced products. I haven't seen any radical change to any pigmentation yet, but it's what, week 2 and am a very very low dose. I feel a sensation after applying it, and use LRP Dermo Cleanser, so it wouldn't be from that.

I have a red patch on my cheek from the Dermatica, despite not reacting to retin-a in the past, so I am going to assume it is working.

Pupsie, I don't think the azelaic acid would cause spots. Probably the tret has brought them out. I started AA once I was well established on tret and never had a problem like that.