🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Vanities Are The New Shelf Porn

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

MAY 2020: We're in lockdown and it's doing weird things to our faces

So I’ve lurked on here since the first thread, I have fairly well behaved skin and felt a bit like a fraud . I have a Dematica prescription which is 0.05 Tret and hydroquinone (small patch of pigmentation below eyebrow). I didn’t have any problems with Tret face, but somehow missed the warnings about lip balm and on day three woke up to hundreds of tiny splits around my lips - agony and took a few days to heal. I also tried to use up the old on my chest (they came too quickly to start) and it caused breakouts on my chest.
I’m not getting anything like the length of use by dates that others are getting - mine has a month each time it comes - maybe they hydro? Which I’m ignoring a bit because I would waste so much product otherwise. Does anyone know if the use by means it’s unstable and harmful, or if it just stops being as effective? Oh so I don’t get shouty caps - I use Frezyderm 50 every single day

Interesting to hear about skin and me versus dermatica. I really like the texture of dermatica (using 0.025 still on first bottle). I was using retrides 0.05 previously so I didn’t expect any problems. I was keen to try skin and me because of the addition of azelaic acid but reports about the texture are putting me off. I’ll probably try a month and make my own judgement as to how my skin gets on.

Thing is, that, yes, tretinoin and azelaic are a good pairing. Mostly for tolerating the tretinoin, especially at the 4% dose, for pigmentation I'd expect to see something over 15% tbh but I'm not qualified at all, just going by the dose prescribed by dermatologists. Dermatica (magically or through micro size) doesn't really come with the added irritancy so the added azelaic wouldn't benefit you there, probably. It's also quite easy to get an affordable high dosage azelaic product (think GOW does the nicest one).

Duchess, you must really be a true lurker as I don't recognise your name Yes, hydroquinone has a shorter shelf life due to oxidation. Google isn't really being helpful, 2-6 months seems to be guide but I've just found an abstract for a scientific study that found it to no longer be effective on average after 45 days. The basic guide is, when it turns brown don't use it but going by that study it's no longer effective before that point.

I am very curious to know how long Dermatica prescribes the hydroquinone as standard practice is to only use it for 4-5 months.

And SHOUTY caps, I appreciate that SPF is very important and ⭐ for being on it but if you're on hydroquinone and particularly in this summer where the UV index has been continuously high, a wide brimmed hat really is the first line of defence, followed by diligent SPF use.

and I thought I was doing so well with SPF! Don’t worry I use a big hat and sit in the shade!
So I’m on bottle 3 from Dermatica - but in month 4, so I might ask them to take out the hydroquinone after my next bottle which is due the end of this month. The pigmentation has faded a lot but I did catch it early and it was faint to start with.
The first bottle did go brown after about 6 weeks, current one is a couple of weeks out of date but still completely white.
Thank Bo much appreciated!

It's here!

Yay Queen - can't view your photo for some reason, but have you had a chance to wrestle with it yet?

Bo Yes, I am totally with you on the hats. Fortunately have been able to embarrass my children with my large rimmed hat, sunglasses, and a scarf. One year went to Greece and stayed mostly under the umbrella, other than the times I was windsurfing or face first in the Aegean but liked to wave enthusiastically at the children who were trying to act, 'cool.' Such fun...

Danielle! I would never have guessed Queen. Lovely name.

I've popped the top off easily so i guess it's just the spurting to see now

Hello, NC as looking for advice for DD.
I'm hoping it's ok for me to ask this here?

I've been lurking and following the factsheets myself for ages and my skin looks great. So thank you 😊

DD1 is 31, she had two DCs close together and stopped working so money and time has been tight for them for a while. DD1 retrained and has just started work, she's starting to collect a work wardrobe and is going to start investing in herself generally.

As I say, I'm familiar with the factsheets but DD's skin is different from mine.

I'd like to start her off with a proper routine, she would like that too. Anything I buy her can't be too ££££ because she won't maintain it. Similarly, if it takes too much time she won't stick to it either.

Her skin is definitely dry and slightly bumpy, not flaking and no break outs.
She has a few fine lines.
Her skin is very dull.
She wears very little makeup.
I'd guess that her skin is too dry and sensitive for retinol at the moment.

My thinking and please weigh in with your own thoughts, corrections and suggestions is that she needs
For morning
• a gentle cleanser
• an acid toner that isn't aggressive
• a morning vitamin C serum
• a day moisturiser for dry skin possibly one containing vitamin C so she can skip the serum, is that a good idea?

• a good exfoliator for use once or twice a week
• eye cream

For night
• an oil cleanser + the cleanser she uses in the morning
• the same acid toner she uses in the morning
• a hydrating serum or maybe the same vitamin C one?
• a very moisturising night cream, plus maybe an oil

As I say, my own skin is very different ie oily and I'm older etc.

I'm not sure where to start, any help gratefully.

Hi Gentle, yeah it is reading a bit like you're very confused. The acid toner is the exfoliator so twice daily use is an odd choice especially if she's sensitive. And vitamin c can only be used once a day as we can only absorb so much. Obviously she'll also have to build up gradually.

I'd start her off as follows:

AM

Wash with tepid water rinse
Eucerin Urea 5% face cream
SPF -since she's dry you could probably try the altruist, it's on the shinier side but probably not an issue when dry and pretty unbeatable for the price.

PM

Oil cleanse, Simple Oil cleanser if you can get a hold of it
Cerave hydrating cleanser
LRP Toleriane Riche or Avene tolérance cream or Cerave moisturiser in the massive jar.

Then potentially add in a vitamin C once she's settled with the above but I'm expecting one that needs to be kept in the fridge is going to be a hassle too far for her. Maybe the GOW one?

For exfoliation potentially a lactic acid serum or PHA. I know the Inkey list and GOW do versions but no idea if they're any good. You could start her off with the superdrug simply pure hydrating serum just as a general barrier helper. Does she really need/want to be on the active train, I'd just keep it simple for now and see whatever needs arise as she continues on.

@botemp I definitely agree that it could be micro tret that they are using. I don’t see how else the irritation is so low.

I am experiencing a lot more peeling on skinandme 0.04% than dermatica 0.05%.

I wake up with my whole chin peeling off .

However I guess I’m the odd one out because I absolutely love the texture of skinandme. Probably because I have dry skin, but it feels so nice to me.

I’m going to give skinandme 2 more weeks to see if I’ll cancel my dermatica prescription.

I had a look at the texture and agree - my skin is drier and I think I'll prefer it over dermatica

Gentle Simple Cleansing Oil is currently half price at Boots - £3.49, not sure if it's an online offer only though...

Cinammonbuns - I agree with you about the texture of Skin + Me - I quite like it! Was it you who said that Skin + Me said it was OK to re introduce acids after 2 weeks? I can't find where they have mentioned it, although think I will give it a full 2 weeks before re introducing them.

Aah i’ve missed this thread. Life’s been manic so not much Mumsnetting going on.

Paula’s Choice 10% Niacinamide... i’ve been applying this directly to face before moisturiser. Noticed my face is a bit stingy recently when applying any cleansers/moisturisers that contain fragrance. Could this be the culprit? Or could I be overdoing the acids?

Acid wise I use PC 2% BHA a few times per week and her 10% Glycolic once per week, so not really caning them.

I do want to introduce my Dr Dennis Gross ultra gentle peel pads a couple of times per week (Mandelic and lactic, no glycolic in them) Or would this be overkill with the BHA and the once per week glycolic?

@ilovemydogandmrobama2 yes it was me who said that. I found it on their website in their FAQ.

botemp thank you, that is incredibly helpful.

No, I don't think she wants to use actives. She spent so long looking after everyone else. My perception is that now that she is working and has the time and some money she'd like to look after herself and be more polished. It really wouldn't take much but it's a work in progress.

She already uses an SPF, I'll buy The Altruist for her and see what she thinks.

Thank you again. I'll go back to lurking now

I got my hands on a singular bottle of dermo cleanse so I'm very pleased about that. Despite being pretty chilly here the UV index has been 9-11 for the past so I've been slathering the spf on as I know I'm most at risk when it's cool as when I'm wearing a jumper and cold its very easy to forget you can still burn. However the blackheads on my nose and chin area are not looking great. Think I'll up BHA to every night instead of every other

My chin is a mess and getting worse. I have never really had spots. Not even as a teenager.

I've not used any retinol for 4 nights. I've stripped back my routine. Is there anything I can do about my chin? Should I be putting even moisturiser and Vit C on it?

Help!

Gentle just wanted to add to what Bo says: Vit C is most beneficial in the morning, so that's when it should be added, when ready.

Just to add, I'm cleansing in the morning with the Biologique Recherche Lait VIP O2 which I used for about 4-6 weeks before starting either retinol. But now it's definitely a bit stiny. Not overly so, and I feel able to use it every morning still, but could it be exacerbating the chin?

The only other cleansers I have are the Cosrx Low pH Good Morning Gel Cleanser, the Curex Cleansing Gel (not using at present) and TTDO. Would I be better switching to the Cosrx in the mornings (it doesn't sting).

Trying to keep ageing at bay is one thing, but jeez I realise how lucky I've been to not have anything more immediate going on with my skin.

@Pupsiecola I've been using Cosrx in the morning for the last 6 months and really like it. I do get spots and have a tendency to be very shiny.

It sounds like you are having a purge Pupsie. If you skin is stinging then I would cut back on vitamin C (are you using the timeless?). My skin is very used to tret now but I have to be careful with vit C and not use it too much.

Re spots, my derm has me cut back on everything which could block the pores. So no moisturiser and she hanged my face wash. I personally would wait until your skin has calmed down (the stinging I mean) and then build up the tret slowly. If you're going to purge then unfortunately I don't think there is much you can do about it other than wait for it to pass.

Yes I've been using the Timeless for 6 months Sophie. Lately I've been avoiding the chin area.

So you're not using any moisturiser at all? I think I'd struggle with that. Apart from a couple of isolated spots on cheeks I don't seem to be having issues elsewhere. I wonder if I just don't put anything on my chin.

From what I've read about tret purges they're spots that would have come out anyway so just appear quicker. But I never really get spots so I don't buy that explanation.

This video from Dr Sam talks about purging but in those with acne.

PS I have no "sea of bump" or blocked pores anywhere really. I have some enlarged pores on my nose, but these have improved with the tret over the last couple of months.

I had spots in places I never had them, definitely a purge. As I understand it, because it's an accelerated form it comes on much stronger and faster where normally it might never really come to the surface and you'd never would have noticed them.

Is it with Dermatica or now with the switch to skin+me that you're suddenly struggling Pupsie? It may just not be well suited to you in the skin and me form. Definitely cut out vitamin c, that's sensible regardless, but Timeless really is too much to use in conjunction with Tret when you're getting used to it.

Fete, could be the niacinamide, I'm not a fan of the boosters, 4-5% is the ideal dose and above that the potential for irritancy just drastically increases. I'm a bit side eyeing Paula for that. Acids seem to be used within reason although the hot weather can obviously throw a curve ball. I remember you were on the TTC track, if you're on any medication/hormones that could influence sensitivity too.