🐌 Fantastic Skincare: New Year, NuFaces

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JANUARY 2019: We're exploring gadgets, and I, Accountability Bo, will attempt to keep everyone in line

Cosmo I am sorry to say that I don’t think any skincare will work on sagging which is my reason for nufacing and will be looking into fillers if that doesn’t work.

Hyaluronic acid, Vit c and retinol should all help with fine lines though - especially ret. I’m not familiar with viola though and can’t find much about it apart from on Amazon who don’t give a proper ingredients list. I’m always a bit wary of stuff that’s only sold on amazon or eBay as it’s hard to find proper information and unbiased reviews.

More info on Vit C below

incidecoder.com/ingredients/ascorbic-acid

Thanks so much @botemp

I have The Ordinary AHA BHA peel I used to love it, I've just read on the Paula choice website that the % should be ok.
I've stopped the saylic.

I haven't used Azaelic before, would the ordinary suspension at 10% be worth a punt for a fiver??

I use biore watery spf. You mentioned minerals in regards to spf but I use a bare minerals BB cream daily too, you think that's bad news??

Lucy, the AHA BHA peel contains 2% salicylic not sure on the concentration of AHA on that either for use in pregnancy. IIRC 10% is the max. Potentially an acid cleanser would be a good fit for you as you're minimising risk since it's not a leave on product and you could use it daily?

The azelaic from the TO is really unpleasant to use, think GOW is not much more expensive (under a tenner, I think) and the prescription through Boots is something around £20 and lasts quite long.

Yes, it's not that mineral sunscreens are comodonogenic (and considering their protection against pigmentation it's usually what I'd recommend to pregnant women, especially considering the controversial UV filters in chemical sunscreens that can be of concern in pregnancy which are the ones in the Biore IIRC) but their large particle size often means they fill up pores and cause congestion that way. A good oil cleanser should take care of it but you need to really cleanse for like a minute or more without being too aggressive, and follow up with another gentle cleanser. Being pregnant I assume at the end of the day you're likely knackered and just want to get on with it ASAP.

One thing I would point out is that layering mineral over a chemical sunscreen doesn't always work well as they can destabilise one another. Perhaps a tinted mineral sunscreen would be useful? Depends on your colouring really.

Cosmo, I agree with Sallie that defying gravity just isn't a thing beauty products can even hope to achieve. Dehydration may be a factor though, you're definitely at that age where that becomes more apparent so try a bit of good Hyaluronic acid before thinking it's fillers or bust.

Also agree on Amazon, lack of transparency with regards to INCIs alongside bought reviews. I'm all for democratising beauty but the reality is the low price stuff often misses the mark on formulation. Even popular brands like the ordinary, GOW, the inkey list, etc. mostly deliver sub par formulations but will have one or two decent ones. The GOW Vit C is definitely one that's good for the money but I don't consider it the best, or even one of the best, out there. It's just sort of okay without a crippling price tag.

Thanks Sallie. Interesting link. The vit c serum that I have, doesn't seem to say what percentage it is. Does anyone know what the Superdrug one is?

I'm starting to worry about using the viola now. It's one thing being ripped off, but I'm now worried if may not be safe. I tend to take Amazon reviews with a pinch of salt, but I heard some really good things about it on here actually and bought on impulse, given the budget friendly price. I was going to try Paula's Choice, but that seems to have mixed reviews and for the price tag, it didn't tempt me.

I had looked into the nuface, but then I read some disturbing reviews about side effects such as a metallic taste in your mouth and more worrying, heart palpations

I did try facial exercises, but if anything, I thought it made things worse! I will always do facial massage with rosehip oil at night (when I remember!) or just with my serum in the morning and I think it probably does help very slightly. I really don't want to go down the filler route, but it's sounding like my problem areas aren't fixable with anything else.

I really worry about the up keep and eventually looking too 'done'. My DP is very anti and I think assumes I will look like Katie Price after my first session!

So hyaluronic acid could help, botemp ? I did try Hado Labo HC serum, which has rave reviews, but I didn't really get on with it and found my skin looked quite dull and felt dry.

I've just received my Allbeauty delivery - the No Lipstick Lipstick is lovely! My lips have virtually no pigment left and this makes me look normal - a nice healthy pink! And the Mugler fragrance is stunning - absolutely perfect for me, really delicious

Cosmo, generally, if a percentage isn't mentioned it's in a range rather than set, so will differ from one batch to the next and it'll be lower than the ideal percentage (between 10 and 20% for L-AA Vit C) otherwise it would be a USP worth highlighting. Although it isn't regulated like in medication so I tend to assume the lower budget lines also play a little fast and loose with the actual percentages.

I can't remember if it was earlier on this thread or near the end of the last one where I think another poster on here mention using the Viola. I was very sceptical of it considering the advertised percentage (not legal within the EU and your face would be falling off so highly likely a derivative rather than Retinol itself) and they saw instant results which is also highly unlikely with Retinol (so likely some hyaluronic acid in it that plumps out the fine lines).

Did you use the HL premium lotion or just the regular one and did you follow it up with an occlusive moisturiser? It sounds a bit if you had a reverse reaction to it where the HA draws out water from your skin instead of attracting it to he skin, happens often in low moisture environments (usually desert climates but if you're in a new build and work in a very dry office it can happen there too). In those case it's better to use non HA hydrating serums, I've heard good things about the Indeed Labs one that's glycerine based, or mixed molecular weight HA serums (like the premium HL one).

There are alternatives to fillers and I would say if you're conservative with them they can be quite subtle. Problem is they last for a good while (18 months) so many top up as soon as they see regression which can lead to that filler look, and some actively chase that aesthetic. Other things you could consider are collagen stimulating treatments like laser or PRP.

On the Nuface side effects, apparently that only happened with imitation nufaces bought off of eBay. I'd only buy from a known supplier.

botemp, thank you. It was the premium one of HL. I always wear a moisturiser on top. I usually wear the Olay regenerist SPF 30. I sometimes mix a bit of vit e oil if my skin looks particularly dehydrated. I only used it for a couple of weeks, but yes, it did feel like it was drawing moisture out, rather than putting it in. By the end of the day, I'd have like a greasy residue on my cheeks, which I don't normally have.

I'm tempted to go back to the No 7 serums, but I was on a quest to find something better.

With the Nuface, I'm sure I read reviews from people who had used the actual Nuface device, rather than an imitation. Hmm might be worth me doing a bit more research. How long have you been using it? I read somewhere that the muscles in the face are actually so thin that exercises and even devices like this, don't work.

Cosmo Bo is not using the nuface she is using us as her guinea pigs I've not had any side effects at all with it but you do get a 90 day MBG. According to everything I read, metallic taste and toothache are fairly common side effects, especially if you have any type of metal in your mouth. I also saw headaches and migraines mentioned but never heart palpitations, those people may have thought they were using the genuine article but it could have been a very good fake. There's a few of us here trying it so if you wait a few months we can update you.

I use Pestle and Mortar superstar retinol oil and Medik8 Vit C (called C tetra) at the moment, I'd recommend both of those. Neither of them are cheap though - think I paid £40ish for the ret (Black Friday deal) and C Tetra is £30ish. I've recently ordered this Vit C which is reasonably priced & will review once tested.
www.timeless-uk.com/collections/timeless-skin-care-usa/products/timeless-skin-care-20-vitamin-c-e-ferulic-acid-serum-1-oz

I don't think the amazon one will be unsafe though the lack of inci means it's hard to check for any potential irritants, but I think the main 'risk' is that it just won't do anything at all.

Haha, yes, I'm merely the puppet master orchestrator when it comes to the Nuface. I'm kind of interested as my skincare routine is very much settled so I'm just a bit bored. I doubt it would do very much for me though as I don't have much signs of ageing yet. I mean the promise of supermodel cheekbones sounds promising but I'm highly sceptical.

It's not a facial exerciser though, microcurrent technology does have substantial backing to it, it's much more a stimulant of elastin and collagen and encourages cell repair. Whether a home device is as effective is the question really, it does have a lot of people loving it though. I suspect it's a certain age group, over 30 at least and pretty sure once you've hit menopause (due to the drastic drop of collagen and elastin production) it's just not going to cut it. I also suspect a partial result is just from doing a daily massage of sorts, I definitely look better if I do it daily, I'm just not all that bothered to do so but a little techy gizmo would probably see me doing it.

I don't think Amazon is unsafe either (that's more likely eBay with counterfeit products) it's just not as effective as advertised. I mean that's most of the beauty industry but I think the dishonesty and manipulation is probably a bit worse on there.

I'd better hurry up and get it working before menopause hits though it may already be too late.....

I've had no symptoms but rarely get periods any more so could be almost done...still in my 40s so seems a bit early but I might have got lucky. Or not lucky if my sagging face is irreversible......

Sorry, Sallie 🙈 it's just my theory though, plenty of post-menopausal women seem to sing its praises (pretty sure hot and flashy mentioned being post) but I think for them it's much more for maintaining, and that includes a lot of procedures, eg. Laser, in office microcurrent, tretinoin, etc. I'd wager for those who only get on the anti-ageing treadmill when most of the dust has already settled are just not going to see overnight miracles with something like Nuface (and most other OTC anti ageing products).

Yes Hot and Flashy uses it and likes it, & pretty sure she is post. It's more of a maintenance thing for her though as she was having botox and fillers but stopped them when she started nuface. Her before and afters don't show much difference but I wouldn't expect them to really given the above.

Sallie have you ever considered the medik8 c tetra + intense? I know you don't get the irritation from c tetra so may be an idea to consider their intense one?

I'm not remotely tempted by a Nuface. Which is odd, as I am generally a positive person and would ordinarily give something like that a go. However, I am in the full throes of the menopause so probably know it's not worth trying given the price tag and daily commitment. I'm having fillers tomorrow. Just a bit. I had some before, 2 years ago, and was really pleased with the result.

OOI Bo does being on HRT (body-identical oestrogen and progesterone) go some way to slow/reverse (hahaha, I can wish) the ageing process re collagen etc?

I did look at that one Mint but the price put me off - think it was over £50 which is more than I like to spend on any one product unless it's a tried and true/can't live without kind of thing. If the Timeless isn't any good I might have to suck it up though!

Timeless has arrived and I'm home tonight so should be able to try it out tomorrow.

Good luck with the fillers Pupsie though sounds like you have a really good practioner and you know they work for you. I need to have a look into the one that Ruggy recommended in my area.

Ah yes Sallie I forgot about the high price tag! I'm nearing the end of my c tetra and had contemplated the intense one but you have reminded me about the £££ now I don't know 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm no expert at all on it Pupsie, but from what I remember oestrogen plays a large role in the production of collagen and elastin so in that regard it should be beneficial. I'm not sure on reversal but I suppose if you've been very out of flux hormonally and you're now more balanced that should see some improvement I suppose, same way people with hormonal acne see improvement on certain birth control medication.

Please come back and report on your experience of fillers. I'm on the cusp of doing something but I'm defo put off by the thought of the pain! I'm fine with botox but profhilo was awful, which would be ok if it had actually done something but it did NOTHING. NUTH-THING. AT. ALL.

I've decided that once I've worked my way through my current stash of GOW/Inkey List/QRXLABS, I'm going to invest again in Obagi and Zo. I've never had results as good as when I use that stuff. The nurse I use for Botox can get the prescription stuff for me and I honestly think it's worth every penny. So I'm slashing on the stuff at a rate of knots at the mo, so I get through it all super quick!

Still no discernible results with nuface......

That's right Bo re oestrogen and collagen/elastin. I've been on HRT for about 8 years but the previous stuff (oestrogen only) was not really cutting the mustard. I'm on a higher dose of a different gel now, and also a progesterone tablet, and the thyroxine and I do feel better than I have in a long while.

Ruggy I will do (have you name-changed?). The lady I am seeing is a different one to who did it before (that one was not long after I had my eyelid surgery and the head nurse for cosmetic procedures at the private hospital did not have a good look at all - very OTT). This lady is highly recommended (and I nearly fell off my chair when she told me she is 57. I thought she was my age. I couldn't tell what she'd had done (although she did say she'd had eyelid surgery, like me): she just looked very fresh and well and younger than her years from that respect. When she saw me she mentioned profhilo but said she didn't think I needed it. I'm glad about that as it is £600 vs the £300 for fillers. I thought that was encouraging: ie that she'd not tried to give me the most expensive treatment. Funny though as I did come home and research it and it seemed very popular on a thread on here last year. But you don't rate it?

Yes, I've name changed.

I was on the other profhilo thread and there were lots of people who didn't rate it at all. I had a sneaky suspicion that there was a bit of stealth pr going on on that thread tbh!

I linked the profhilo thread a couple of pages back, the first few posters were absolutely singing it’s praises to the skies and loads of people were asking for more info, where they had it done etc. Then there were a load of posters like Ruggy who had it done & were mainly ‘meh it did nothing’ but the enthusiastic ones never came back - so yes definitely seemed suss to me.

The practitioner I am seeing tomorrow told me about it initially but said actually she thinks a few subtle fillers would give me the result I'm after.

Happy Valentine's (or Galentine's) Day to all!

Good luck with the fillers Pupsie, I think that's the route I'm going to have to take (although DH will not be happy about it, I suspect).

Hmm, I think DameDoom (or similar) is a legit poster. I remember seeing her around and interacting like a non sales person (have not read the full profilhio thread). I think this is just the annoying reality that the cosmetic medical industry isn't that heavily regulated. The ones supposed to advise you have a dual function of selling to you. I find that and the unpredictability of it all very off putting but they'll reel in plenty of desperate cases willing to part with more money than they can stand to afford over the long term that's necessary to maintain and continue to 'step up'. I think there are treatments that will work great for some and do little for others but most practitioner discuss a smorgasbord of options instead.

The fact that you're not allowed to advertise medications does make forums terribly vulnerable.

I've been studying the b&a of Nuface again and what I notice mostly is not suddenly lifted faces, it's more subtle than that. Skin tone (as in colour) seems to improve with many though may not be related or uniquely to Nuface usage, or just be better lighting. The other (very subtle) noticeable thing to me is that as you get older any asymetry will get more pronounced, the Nuface seems to fuzz that out a bit so you look more symmetrical again, which is perceived to be more beautiful and youthful.