🐌 Fantastic Skincare: In the Garden of Wisdom there is always room for Cicaplast ❤️

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a lightbulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES - NEW SERIES - NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JUNE 2018: We successfully got the Frezyderm Frenzy into the MN Swears By!!!!!!!! So, once more for the MN bottom line:

www.amazon.co.uk/FREZYDERM-SPF-Velvet-Face-Sunscreen/dp/B007TSU0E2/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?keywords=frezyderm+velvet+suncream&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1526062070&sr=8-1

In other news we’re excited by the launch of Garden of Wisdom at Victoria Health and several posters are already in full on testing mode.

Also, thread 15 , who is going to get me some crystal? Preferably not meth

Yes that's the one tant.

Sophie which eye cream are you using? I'm actually liking the gow eye serum so far so thumbs up from me for that. So on the nights your not using tret or skinoren do you literally just cleanse then add no hydrator or moisturiser?? I thought it would be even more important to moisturise after applying something like tret or azelaic acid 🤔

Storm, what acid were you using? BHA? Azelaic may be something worth trying?

Excellent sleuthing, user, I had looked into the triacneal (for which reviews are very mixed) being the same product but the INCIS didn't match but they are identical for the Ystheal (bottom in the picture attached). The only unknown would be the concentration, the US version states it specifically but since it's such a low number at the end of an INCI there is the potential that the EU version is of a lesser strength. The difference in price is certainly odd. Avene might disclose the strength if asked.

Nadine Baggott sent out a for GOW yesterday and was especially complimentary about the Vit C. I disagree that it's not tingly or leaves you red though. Even using the right amount I did have redness and tingling the first few days of use, I worried it was too much for me despite being an experienced Vit C user but I'm tolerating it fine now without any redness now that my skin has acclimated to it. Anyhow, would explain the depleted stocks, Tsn. I think DE was supposed to arrive in the third or fourth quarter of 2018, after summer anyhow. I suspect VH purposefully released GOW amply ahead of the DE launch.

Hi Mint, I'm using an eye cream from Eubos for sensitive eyes. It has HA in it. Not had an issues with it at all in terms of it causing irritation. Think it's a German company but not sure.

Yes! On nights when not using AA or tret, I just cleanse. Probably depends on your skin type. Surprisingly this works for me and my skin feels soft and lovely. I wasn't happy at all when derm said I had to cut moisturiser out but actually she was right. I don't need it. I've not an any issues with the tret either (like flaking or redness - I assume because introducing it so slowly - it's a month each time before can introduce another application during week).

I don't know how the AA serum is that you use but Skinoren is quite a thick cream actually so I definitely wouldn't need to moisturise after that.

Derm has given me some samples of Avene Cleanance SPF to try. I complained Frezyderm kept running and she said it's very possible and that for hard-core exercise/v hot weather other SPFs are better (but more likely to make me white). She also gave me some samples of SPF from A-Derma - she said to see if I like it but she prefers Avene (not sure why though).

Thanks Bo, I'll pre-order the GOW vit C and hope it comes in soon, that should tide me over until DE arrives (fingers crossed) - might get the Vichy one in the interim :)

I am interested in trying a few of the GOW products.

Vitamin C and retinol both pre-order which is fine as I have DE and P&M open and on the go.

Was thinking of trying the lactic acid 5% (I did not like TO 10% but really liked the week of samples of Sunday Riley good genes - not the price though!!!)
Also considering prickly pear oil, although the price is a little steepI do love a good oil...marula being my current favourite.
I don't need an eye product as I am very happy with my OLAY in the AM and Kiehl's midnight recovery/Verso in the PM.

Oh, something I have been meaning to ask for a while - NUFACE - any thoughts, verdicts etc? I know recently there were comments on here about how ineffective facial massaging was, but this yoke uses micro-currents etc.

Waste of time and money? A friend bought one about 3 months ago and swears by it BUT her skincare routine would be quite poor and she spends a lot of time in the sun.

When I checked VH last night they indicated stock would be replenished within 7 days so that seems pretty quick. They've definitely learned from the TO debacle.

miffy, I quite like prickly pear oil for my hair, at least I like certain products from Christophe Robin with prickly pear oil as the hero ingredient. I had considered purchasing that for my hair but it felt a bit spendy for just the hair, it is supposed to be a nice oil for more mature dry skin.

I think the lactic acid from GOW looks promising as the pH is suitably low, but not ridiculously low like Sunday Riley. I don't know if TO ever disclosed their pH for the lactic acid serum but it was extremely mild at 10% which made me think it wasn't very low (I'm guessing the pH would be around 4 or higher) or the one I had was just not formulated properly, or possibly both.

I think it's two or three threads back now but OCSockOrphanage did share her findings on the Nuface after using it for a few months when I asked her to update us about it. You may be able to find it through an advanced search? The gist of it, from her experience and what I know of microcurrent research, is that it has somewhat of a tightening effect but it's only maintained by continual use.

If people are willing to oblige, can I get a roll call on who is using what from GOW?

I know mint has AA and the eye serum. Think Shop also had the eye serum. I have the Vit C. I've forgotten who but someone has the Niacinamide serum, Violet?. Anyhow, would be handy to keep track who is testing what as I know not everyone has the inclination to do the monthly empty overview.

Good idea on the GOW roll call, Bo.

I will do a bi-monthly empties/regimen update as I totally missed May's but have a long list for June :)

And thanks, I will do a search for Sock's review of Nuface

Bo is right I have the GOW azelaic and the eye serum and am liking both of them so far...

Sorry Sophie I forgot to reply to you!
The GOW aa isn't a thick cream it's like a lotion, it does feel comfortable on the skin so can imagine it would be fine without a moisturiser on top too.
I looked at the avene cleanance spf but it contains fragrance, I really really don't understand why companies add fragrance to spf products!

Ah interesting Mint as Avene Cleanance doesn't seem to have any smell at all to me! The fragrance is v far down on the list (perhaps that's normal though?) And it hasn't caused any irritation. I've used it before and like it. My only complaint is that it makes me white.

@Bo yes I'm trying out the GOW Niacinamide. I like it so far.

I'm not using anything from GOW, interested in the Vit c but given my track record of not tolerating Vit c very well I am wary. I didn't react to the active formulas 15% that I'm just about to finish but don't think it's really made any difference to my skin so I'm a bit reluctant to repurchase.

Is AA a night treatment only? And does it need to be used alone? I had one ages ago from TO but it didn't really do anything & there was hardly any product in the tube, not sure whether to try the GOW one or not.

Tsmummy I feel your pain. I DM'd DE on IG to ask when they were going into Space NK. Their response: "This year!!!" all excited-like. That was about 6 weeks ago! This year was not the response I wanted! Thankfully DH is off to NY tomorrow so I shall be getting my DE Vit C.

I had my eyebrows threaded and tinted yesterday (every 3-4 weeks). She commented on how much thicker they are looking. That'll be the Rapid Brow :-)

Wondering if I can get DH to pick me up a retinol product stateside.

Yes that’s right I have the GOW eye serum and also the AA to try when I’ve used the skinoren up.

Sophie I’ve been using it since 12th March, so 3 months or so and around half way through the second tube. It’s totally stopped my persistent breakouts and got rid of some red marks, I have a look of them though. I started off alternate mornings but now use it most days. It’s not a pleasant texture though and I don’t enjoy using it at all. I also think it’s responsible for some ‘texture’ I didn’t have before.

Sophie I can't tolerate fragrance in products at all even if low down on list, my skin will be fine for a while and then it goes crazy in protest lol.

Combination/oily skinned ladies here, what moisturiser are you using in the pm?

mint LRP toleraine Fluide non oily is my go to.

If I'm feeling dehydrated I use Clarins lotus oil (it is fragranced so not for you) and I'm also currently using M&S sleep cream stuff which I'm quite happy with, no idea if it has fragrance or not.

Thanks tant

I just ordered another gow aa as back up because I'm worried it's going to sell out quick after all the recent mentioning of the brand!

By AA do you mean Azelaic Acid? I've got the TO one but stopped using because of the weird texture, you're convincing me to go back to it.

Not feeling great this week. A few general annoying things have happened which have upset me more than usual. Particulary this weekend with it being Father’s Day. It’s nearly a year since my dad died and it still bloody hurts and feels unfair.

Anyway, I’ve had a bit of a clear out today of the bathroom so I’ve decided to do a round up of my routine, even though it’s mid month . I got rid of TO bottles I had hanging around of niacinamide and zinc, retinoid and another one I can’t remember (you mixed it with Vit C). Anyway, all half used, none of them repurchased!

ROUTINE Reminder- oily skin, early 40s, no particular sensitivities.

AM NIOD Sanskrit saponins (just opened but have used before) or cosrx good morning cleanser, which I’ve been using for several months and happy with it. Vichy thermal water.
Followed by medik 8 CE Thione then either LRP toleriane fluide or straight on with frezyderm sunscreen. If using toleriane, I’ll add Biore UV bright milk spf 50 (favourite SPF I’ve tried) 10 mins or so later.

PM Bioderma sensibio for eye makeup removal, DHC deep cleansing oil or occasionally BS camomile cleansing butter removed with cloth. Second cleanse LRP hydrating gentle cleanser. Vichy thermal water. Retinoid- differin, moisturiser -LRP double repair moisturiser. Twice a week swap out differin for BR lotion P50W.

PRODUCTS ON TRIAL:

Since last doing a round up I’ve started using BR P50w which I like. The bottle will last a while but I’ll probably upgrade to P50 once it’s finished.

Differin is nearly finished. I’ve been using it around 6 months I think. My skin is no less oily but definitely less SFs and generally clearer pores. I don’t think I can give differin the full credit. I think it’s a mixture of oil cleansing, stopping using primer and ELDW and using NARS TM instead. I think niacinamide in cleanser and moisturiser are helping reduce/refine pores slightly too.

Medik 8 CE Thione is an interesting Vit C. It’s a bit sticky but smells nice! It’s a bit difficult to judge how good a job it’s doing. I might repurchase a Medik 8 Vit c (they have a few formulations) but also interested in GOW.

Frezyderm SPF is not for me. I’m oilier during the day with it on and it sometimes makes my eyes sore.

PLANNED PURCHASES:

Medik 8 crystale retinoid has been shipped so I’ll be trialling that as soon as I get it and will stop using differin which will be an empty this week anyway.

Bonfire yes sorry it's azelaic acid. I never tried the TO one so can't compare but I'm really liking the gow one. My skin didn't tolerate bha at all so this is a nice alternative for me.

JDSTER 💐** i know exactly how you feel, lost my dad in 2013 and it still hurts just the same now as it did then 😢

Has anyone here had any experiences of Epiduo (Adapalene and Benzoyl Peroxide)? My second week of use and it's the first time I look in the mirror and see a difference - still a long long way to go!

JDSTER, it's usually the low level seemingly inoffensive stuff that piles up and can suddenly catch you unaware. It was my mother's birthday this week, it completely knocked me for six how young she'd still be, even now. Thankfully for the first time in years it didn't get me down and instead we went out to have a French lemon meringue tart in her honour as it was always her favourite.

Thinking of you too this weekend, Enid.

Ok, I've set up a GOW sheet just to keep track. Wasn't there someone who purchased the Retinol as well? Thought there were more sheep among us, lurkers this is your chance to reveal yourselves

In other news I've found a new Youtube Doc, well more accurately the algorithm made me take notice. Not a dermatologist but an internalist who has a wider approach, wellness would probably best encompass it all but it is mostly beauty related and there's quite a bit of skincare. Some fitness as well, but basically it's all evidence-based and tackles a lot of the microtrends doing the rounds from supplements (Biotin and Collagen, etc), dietary/fitness, actives in skincare, etc. she runs through all the studies and evaluates the evidence. Which sounds very dry but she manages to communicate it well IMO and break it down in a very understandable way. She's a tad chirpy American but as soon as she has her professional voice on that's less present. She's not super active though, about one video per month by the looks of it.

Dr. Meghan