🐌 Fantastic Skincare: In the Garden of Wisdom there is always room for Cicaplast ❤️

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a lightbulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES - NEW SERIES - NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JUNE 2018: We successfully got the Frezyderm Frenzy into the MN Swears By!!!!!!!! So, once more for the MN bottom line:

www.amazon.co.uk/FREZYDERM-SPF-Velvet-Face-Sunscreen/dp/B007TSU0E2/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?keywords=frezyderm+velvet+suncream&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1526062070&sr=8-1

In other news we’re excited by the launch of Garden of Wisdom at Victoria Health and several posters are already in full on testing mode.

Also, thread 15 , who is going to get me some crystal? Preferably not meth

I haven't eaten pasta for ages and feel much better for it although I do love a sandwich with multigrain bread for lunch stuffed with lettuce, houmous, chicken and parma ham. Waitrose does my favourite bread. Actually I make my own favourite bread but havent had any time recently.

God that sounds good Tant! Argh, why can't I stop eating?!

I actually cant go to bed because our hamster refuses to get out of the ball thingy. Instead of climbing out into his cage he just stubbonly turns the other way and tries to run around the ball to move it .
He actually stands and waits by the cage door now to get in his ball, like a dog with a lead. He's so adorable.

Yes but Enid you are my height and 3 sizes smaller than me so I wouldn't worry to much about it

Oh I love hamsters Tant! They love their food too. Maybe I should develop cheek pouches. 🤔

Sorry to hear your skin is looking rubbish Tant but you did make me laugh with "It could either be the Liz Earle C&P, Ultrasun spf, TO retinol, Haagen Dazs salted caramel ice cream or Sauvignon Blanc from the other night"

I'm also wheat free JDSTER (dairy free too). I eat a lot of quinoa, buckwheat, pasta from rice, oats (a lot of porridge) and pumpernickel bread or similar. Like Enid says, once you get used to it, it's not that hard to stay wheat free. Plus so much choice in the UK for wheat free (well compared to here anyway!)

Tant we’ve got a hamster too . He’s very old and doesn’t go in his ball now. I had to clip his nails this week with baby clippers, poor old man.

I definitely couldn’t do dairy free sophie. I’m just generally trying to reduce wheat but not go completely wheat free. For example I’m having Greek yogurt and banana for breakfast but I’m planning on whole wheat bagel, philly and smoked salmon for lunch (lunch at home today).

Ok so an update.....I tried the spf this morning, it's Australian gold botanical tinted spf 50 zinc oxide and titanium oxide. It is INCREDIBLY drying on me! So much so that when I put my nars tm on top it was like I'd put 10 layers of powder on!! And I can feel it on my skin almost like a clay mask! It's built up in my hairline and eyebrows and also on my upper lip hair!! Can't wait to wash it off but I can't do it until later!!
BUT absolutely no stinging anywhere and I applied it to eye lids and under eyes just to test and it was fine so I'm assuming that's because it's a mineral spf??? I now have to find a mineral spf that's suitable for daily where aswell as on holidays abroad as I hate having 2 separate products I just want one spf that's ok for both which is what the Australian gold promises which was another plus for me! I had such high hopes but honestly it really does feel as if I'm wearing a clay mask under my make up!
Please does anyone have any suggestions for a mineral spf suitable for under make up daily wear plus water resistant for beach and holidays etc, no white cast (or very little), not drying! But not greasy, and fragrance free!! Surely these are common requirements there must be something!! PLEASE HELP ME 🤞🏻

Few days late but just to add to some of the weekend convo...

bonfireheart I used Epiduo for two years and found it made a massive difference to my skin. I used it in combination with duac (duac AM and epiduo PM). I stopped at end of 2017 to TTC and moved to just duac in PM and my skin took a massive turn for the worse so it does work (although I obviously stopped the pill in that time too which will likely have had some effect)

I've since moved onto a new combo of skinoren in AM and duac still in PM (although it's hard to know whether I'd be better off just ditching the duac).

sophie and shop I've been using skinoren for about 8weeks now. I didn't notice too much difference for first 4-5weeks but since then my new breakouts have reduced significantly and I'm keeping fingers crossed that I'm starting to notice some effect on the red marks left my spots (which is becoming my main concern now I think)

hi all, newbie to this thread but slowly working my way through the previous ones. I'm a skincare enthusiast who is picking up what I can along the way.

I'm currently using the Murad City Skin Age Defense Broad Spectrum SPF 50 PA++++ which I've found works well under make up normally, but recently foundation settles into my pores with it. I've been using Hourglass Illusion or Armani Luminous Silk. Am I dehydrated? Should I add another layer of hyaluronic? Current routine is:

AM
Cleanse - Sarah Chapman Ultimate Cleanse
Serum - Vichy m89 or new Clinique jelly stuff
Eye - Clinique all about eyes
Moisturiser - Murad's Hydro-Dynamic® Quenching Essence
SPF: Murad City Skin Age Defense Broad Spectrum SPF 50 PA++++ or Glossier Invisible Shield

pm: Pixi CH double cleanse/ or Sarah again as first or Clinique TTDO, then Dermalogica microfoliant or DE Jelly cleanser (don't love this, tbh)
acid: if i've not used the dermalogica I'll go in with one of the following: Vichy Overnight Peeling/Clinique 1.0/PIxi Glow Tonic/Zelens PHA pads
Serum: M89 or Zelens Luminous
Eye - Clinique all about eyes
Moisturiser: Murad's Hydro-Dynamic® Quenching Essence or Murad Hydro-Dynamic® Ultimate Moisture

Realising now i've no vit C in there. Find I typically have combo - normal with hormonal activity, and get lovely and greasy in t-zone during the summer/on train etc. Any advice very welcome - thanks!

I really need to stop skim reading, after talk of food it moved to hamsters and I was horrified at the thought of people loving to eat hamsters on here and tant, I genuinely thought you'd been slathering ice cream on your face for a bit there too

Nofilter, the order is correct but you may not need to use moisturiser in the AM and make sure all products are absorbed before applying the next one.

cad and Bluebell I've added your names to the GOW list. Bluebell, does GOW expressly say not to use their Vit C and Niacinamide together? You can theoretically experience flushing by using products with both these within a routine, but it's down to formulation and the flushing isn't necessarily harmful, just uncomfortable but it may compromise efficacy of the actives. AFAIK only the Ordinary products ever had this issue. The Cerave PM is half the active percentage of TO and not in a serum form so irritation is less likely and if you are unsure, just leave a bit of time in between applying.

pickled thanks for that informative post. By any chance have you ever done any similar body treatments like RF? I'm attempting to expand my research into that a bit but there's a lot less information on it out there and things that work for the face don't necessarily work well for the body and vice versa.

Never heard of Valjean bonfire but HA is a pretty easy thing to formulate and it isn't expensive so there tends to be a lot of choices out there. Are you using both cleansers in the AM or one or the other? There's no need to double cleanse in the morning, depending on your skin type a quick rinse with water or a mild cleanser is more than enough.

If you're struggling with a lot of dehydration I'd rec the Hada Labo Premium lotion and a nighttime cream that focuses on barrier restoration like the Cerave PM or similar.

zoClueless, do you have a Vit C in your routine currently? It may help to get one for the red marks but then use a high % one in the PM. I'm not sure how it plays with DUAC but worst case scenario you wait 20 mins to apply the Vitamin C after the DUAC. I'm still in testing mode with the GOW 23% but that would potentially be a good one. Although I should warn, Vitamin C (in L-AA form) can induce a bit of purging in those that are acne prone so it's a risky strategy. Perhaps a derivative is more sensible, the Melano CC from Japan would be a safer option.

mrsdane, welcome. Indeed no Vit C but IIRC the Murad SPF has a Vit C derivative in it so you're getting some of the efficacy boosting properties. Also, no retinoid and a lot of acids, don't know how old you are but if over the age of 30 I'd be switching that around, easing up on the acids and focusing on a good retinoid instead. WRT feeling dehydrated/pore issues, I'm inclined to point at the heavy acid use again (and the Dermalogica microfoliant is technically another acid product), this usually leads to a compromised skin barrier, which results in dehydration. I generally rec 2-3x a week maximum for acid use and one preferential form of it.

Thanks for the guidance, Bo. I try not to use the acid every night but will strip back and go for a retinol. I have the new Murad retinol in a sample, which I might try out. I seem to be having a huge Murad phase at the moment.

Any pointers for a good entry-retinol? LRP perhaps?

Bo no comment on my long post?? I know I'm a pain in the arse but you must have some comment even if just to abuse me 😜. I'm doing you all a favour testing spf 😉

Thanks Bo. I'll do some research but it's good to know I should be ok with it.

Mrsdane Bo put a Retinoid guide on the first post. It tells you all about the different sorts and gives recommendations too.

Bo just seen your extensive Medik8 recommendations, will take a look. Thank you

mint I'm waiting for a new mineral SPF to arrive at the moment, I'll let you know if its any good. Its supposed to be good for sensitive skin, free of fragrances, dyes, oils, and other irritating chemical ingredients, not clog pores or cause breakouts and is waterproof and sweatproof.

Bluebell that sounds promising! Do you mind me asking what it is?

mint its Neutrogena Pure and Free Liquid SPF 50.

Bo I haven't tried RF for anything other than my ex double chin. The fat disappeared over the years with diet, exercise and age and left me with a wattle 😂😂😂. I suspect it either works for you, or doesn't, the doctor warned me I may get no result at all so I'm pleased with the visible effect I get.

Has anyone tried CeraVe that they've bought in the UK? I used to buy the hydrating cleanser from the US and loved it. Just bought some in Boots and it stings like crazy. It may well be my retinoic acid use but I wonder whether it's been reformulated for Europe? And does that mean the PM won't be the same either?

Bo Vit C is definitely something I've been considering adding in. I need to look more into whether it can be layered effectively with the duac or skinoren AA. Been meaning to rewatch some of Dr Sam's layering and acne based videos to see if it mentions it - I'm going to aim to do that this evening!

Any thoughts on GOW daily hydrator??

@Mint What about using one of the spfs which haven't irritated your eyes just around your eyes and then Frezyderm the rest of your face? I do this with my Avene.

Pickled, there's some doubt as to whether the CeraVe range has actually been properly released in the U.K as yet.

My husband is in Las Vegas this week so I'm getting him to bring me back 2 bottles of the PM moisturising lotion (as recommended by bo), courtesy of Amazon Prime. V excited to try it out sad person.

...though obviously Boots stocks some of it, as you've managed to buy some! No idea about possibly different formulations... I hope not.

Violet in theory that's a good idea but there's no way I'm buying two spf products and faffing around in the morning, firstly I can't afford to buy two each time and secondly my morning needs to be quick and easy, I'm forgetful at the best of times (fibro fog) and mornings I'm worse!
Sorry I don't mean that in an ungrateful way, I realise it may read like that over text. I really appreciate your suggestion 💐