🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Tiny Lovely People who Live in your Phone and Tell You to Buy Frezyderm Velvet Face SPF50

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

MAY 2018: We’re in the midst of the Frezyderm Frenzy, for the MN bottom line:

www.amazon.co.uk/FREZYDERM-SPF-Velvet-Face-Sunscreen/dp/B007TSU0E2/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?keywords=frezyderm+velvet+suncream&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1526062070&sr=8-1

thisisbeautymart.com/shop/sun-screen-velvet-face-spf50/

Interesting Tant, it's eyes stuff that I'll spend big on because they make such a difference. Hence being so devoted to my Verso super eye serum for years now. Ditto the Sisley concealer. Very picky about mascara too. I loved the look of permanent eyelash extensions on me but was never a fan of the feel of them. Strip lashes, in contrast, make me even more hooded and appear off the planet.

I do also like to take concealer all over my eyelids so there's a flash of bright skin behind the lashes (always prefer mascaras that keeps lashes separate), that works really well. Even a tinted eyeshadow base or something like the Mac paint pots in a 'your skin but better' tone looks so much better than any sort of eyeshadow (unless doing an evening full on look).

Mint, the routine is fine. Unfortunately most of the ingredients helpful for Rosacea don't work for you (Niacinamide, BHA, silicones). The one you haven't tried is Azelaic acid but I think it would be pretty hard to get a product of that OTC without silicones. I only know prescription Skinoren that would possibly meet the criteria of your skin intolerances but that would need to be prescribed. I'm a bit on the fence if perhaps using something like the Boots online acne clinic would work for you as that requires an online correspondence that works like a diagnosis, I think. Sounds ideal in your situation but as mentioned before the dysmorphia does distort your ability to objectively assess yourself in a way someone without would so in that sense it's a troublesome route to go down.

I've been lurking a while, reading the cheat-sheets and trying to come up with a mini-routine (not much me-time, particularly AM). I still have a few 'vacancies' which I would very much appreciate help with. Currently I am using:

AM

Superdrug Naturally Radiant Hot Cloth Cleanser

TO Agireline on my forehead and under eyes (before or after HL lotion..?)

Hada Labo Premium Lotion (loving this, it's really plumping up my face, which helps with forehead lines)

>>>any recs for a light, non-oily moisturiser, as I've read that the Hado Labo needs 'locking in'..?* Thinking of adding in TO Granactive Retinoid 2% Emulsion..?

(Gosh that was really long - sorry! 🙈)

@botemp thank you for that. I'm not too bad with silicone as long as not that cyclo one (although that is actually in my nars tm) what are the azelic acids available without needing to be prescribed? And how would it slot into routine?
I'll check out that boots online thing but I have done something like that before (not sure if it was the same thing though) and was recommended a shed load of fragranced products!

Pfft, you've got nothing on my signature giant walls of text, Chester

For your routine, I'd keep in mind that the argiline solution is a temporary fixer rather than anything that cumulatively does anything. So in my book it's a bit of a waste of space in that sense but if it works in the temporary for you, great.

The Frezyderm acts well enough as an occlusive so don't think you absolutely need a moisturiser in there. I certainly don't need one.

Too many bad experiences with TO retinoids formulations have me actively dissuading against them these days.

Since you're responding so well to HL premium I'd consider getting a night cream that focuses on barrier health (ceramides, cholesterol, fatty acids in the 2:1:1 ratio) to help actively improve the cause of dehydration rather than just fixing it in the temporary alone.

Facialist I can't really recommend anyone specifically but I do find that those who are trained by Dermalogica and sell their spiel are well trained and good with extractions.

mint, and actually, everyone else here too, EnablerInChief Alert I just checked with a brand that Victoria Health has recently started stocking has a good Azelaic acid product for you INCI wise, the HA may be an issue. Proceed with caution as you did with the BHA but it's a much gentler pH level so hopefully you'll be able to tolerate this better. It's by Garden of Wisdom which has been a Reddit Skincare Addiction favourite for quite some time but was difficult to get hold of here. It's very affordable so a proper replacement/competitor to TO without the issues clouding that brand.

I'm thinking of getting their L-AA Vit C 23% Ferulic serum which is better value for money than the Vichy and in an airless pump. It would make a good Drunk Elephant and SkinCeuticals alternative too. The high percentage does concern me a bit as it's a hydrous formulation but the pH is a bit higher so in theory you're getting about the same efficacy as a 10-15% concentration at a lower pH. I'll have to run it through that free acid calculation spreadsheet to know exactly.

Anyhow lots of other interesting single serums by them too, niacinamide, arbutin, mandelic, retinol, BHA, etc.

Bo I have to be careful applying mascara because of course it can quite easily transfer very quickly to my hooded lids if I blink too hard or at all in fact.

The Alpha H eye gel I'm using was free ages ago with my Liquid Gold, I wouldn't have chosen to buy it tbh, it can sting on occaisions but it does seem to work.
I have to say I did really like the 111 skin bright eye lift I tried in Space NK but it's £££ but I will probably repurchase cliniques all about eyes rich when the time comes. I don't really go over the £25 mark.

Bo which mascaras do you use? I am using the Bobbi Brown smoky eyes at the moment but it's not value for money. I like anything non clogging. Sali and Caroline said at the even that Clinique don't make a bad mascara. I was in Boots the other day looking at the High Lengths one, but I can't get my head around the wand.

I might look at this Retinol then:-

www.victoriahealth.com/product/RetiStar-1-Retinol-Serum/12908/brand/Garden-of-Wisdom/1110

Also, I bought the Vichy Vitamin C. I do think it's a false economy. My DE lasted 4 months (for twice the price).

Did Renee Zellweger have hooded eyes too? She did something to them and they look completely different now. Preferred them before...

Pupsie, your before photo looks exactly like a friend of mine who wants to fix her eyelids. What was the name of the exact procedure you did? Thanks.

As someone with sensitive eyes (tendency to go red), I agree Bo that eyes make such a difference. I’ve also been doing the concealer on eyelid recently. Quite like it.

I’ve been told off by derm for using too much sun cream on face (from a spots point of view anyway - I'm sure sun damage wise the more the better!) Been applying it about 4 or 5 times a day and it’s given me spots on my chin (it’s not the sun cream per se that’s the problem, it just seems to be any product on my face right now that causes spots). I am getting through Frezyderm at a fantastic rate!!! Anyway I am to apply only before going out, stick to shade and WEAR A HAT AT ALL TIMES!!! Must wash SPF off when back in house but not wash face more than 3 times a day. All a bit tedious as it seems no matter what I do, I can win with my skin at the moment.... need to go and live in a sunless country

Can't win (obviously...!)

Clinique All about Eyes rich started to make my eyes blur and sting and I had little dry itchy patches where it had been. I'd used it for years with no problems. Strange.

I have a choice of shoes for my outfit. because I ordered All The Shoes. Nice, easy to wear, cheaper ones or bloody gorgeous, can't really walk far in them, might break my neck, sky high, expensive ones? I know the correct answer...but...they're so pretty! I mean, at least I'll look good when I'm lying in A&E with a broken ankle.

I'll see how I feel later. Hope everyone's having a good day and not too hot.

@botemp thank you I'll definitely check that out! I know you said my routine is fine but do you think it could be better? Or do you think I'm using the most beneficial products for my issues? They all seem to work well for me as in no negative reactions etc

I'm going to order that bo as it's only £9. How do you suggest I fit it into my existing routine? And how often?

Oh and does it matter that it says it lightens skin??

Enid In my book, the correct answer is always the impossibly impractical and uncomfortable pair that make you feel amazing. Going by other grumbling MN posters on these boards, you only have so many viable years for these type of shoes so I better take the opportunity whilst I still can.

Pupsie, my favourite mascaras for non clumpy seperated lashes are:

The completely cost ineffective, Chantecaille Faux Cils Longest Lash
Chanel Inimitable Intense
Eyeko Skinny mascara (this is a really barely there mascara which I like when I go pretty low key and since it's a tuber I also layer it over other mascaras to stop them running).
Sensai 38C Volumising, I use this most days as it's a good medium between separated lashes but still present. Also a tuber.

mint, given the limitations of your reactions I wouldn't look for improving anything. The only thing I would question is the use of is a balm cleanser, the less direct contact with the skin, the better so balm cleansing with cloth isn't very conducive in that sense. Leave skin alone as much as possible and tap product in gently.

There are certain ingredients that are marginally beneficial for Rosacea (that are not a prescription, oral or topical) but without you having a diagnosis I don't see a point in chasing those and replacing products that do work well for you with the unknown again when there's absolutely no way of knowing you actually have Rosacea..

---

Since it's now been the first of the month again it’s time for the monthly overview to get a good idea of what everyone's been using up an trialing and how it's been working for them. I've drawn up a simple format for everyone to use, but it's a guide really no need to adhere to it to the letter .

MAY EMPTIES, TRIALS, AND PLANNED PURCHASES

ROUTINE

AM

PM

EMPTIES:

Mini reviews of finished products and your thoughts and whether you’d repurchase or already have.

PRODUCTS ON TRIAL:

Mini reviews of products on trial and your thoughts so far, please include for approximately how long you’ve been using it.

PLANNED PURCHASES:

Products you’re considering purchasing and would like input on/bring notice to.

SPECIAL MENTION:

Product(s) you may not have started or finished this past month but has been giving you noticeable results (good or bad).

I’ve been away this week and so am just catching up on here. Enid – It has been lovely to read how everyone has been so helpful over the past week. You are all such a lovely bunch!

My first monthly round up! My concerns are active acne and pigmentation from older spots. Acne was under control with contraceptive pill, duac and epiduo but now ttc so the pill and the retinal have now gone so I have taken a backwards step.

ROUTINE

AM
Neutrogena Ultra Gentle Hydrating Cleanser, Creamy Formula
Skinoren (prescription AA)
Neutrogena Hydro Boost Eye Gel
LRP Toleraine Fluid
Usually LRP Effaclar Matt on nose.

SPF – I got Clinique City Block 40 in the end as I needed one I could just go out and buy. I admit I am not using it every day yet.

PM
Clinique TTDO
Neutrogenia Ultra Gentle Hydrating Cleanser, Creamy Formula
Duac (prescription BP)
Neutrogena Hydro Boost Eye Gel
If I put the duac on early enough for it to have a good half hour to sink in then I sometime follow with the LRP moisturiser.

OTHERS
I also own and occasionally use:
LRP Cicaplast – as many others, a tiny tab on spots that are almost completely dried out but still flaky and purple/red looking
LRP Effaclar H – occasionally the prescription creams can make my neck really dry so I use this on those patches then
Vichy Aqualia serum – use on lower neck/chest when I remember and occasionally on skin when it gets dry as per above
Clinique moisture serge hydrating superconcentrate – potentially wasted purchase, don’t use often, only when acne treatments make me feel dry and I have other uses for this. I think I remember reading that it is good for protecting against pollution though (I work in central London and live in outer London so see a lot of pollution!) so I keep it and try to work out if I should fit it in somewhere

EMPTIES

Vichy Aqualia Hydrating Eye Gel Balm – this is the second time I have finished up this. I like the texture but tend to chop and change a bit with eye creams. Can never be 100% certain that the ones I am getting are worth the ££. I think would repurchase but haven’t yet.

ON TRIAL

Clinique spf – as per my previous posts here I have issues with spf breaking me out and have never found one that I can wear constantly every day. I’m wearing this one on sunny days only really which I know is bad and that the harmful rays are still around on cloudy days. I’m working up the courage to try every day as that’s when I start to react. I think this one is ok for a city/home spf, I find it quite light on the skin and easy to rub in. It gives a slight glow which I also like. I assume that this one wouldn’t do for a full on holiday though? (I confess I was just in Italy for 3 nights and only had this for the face – I did reapply often though).
Not sure if on trial is the right description but the Neutrgena eye gel is a new purchase for me. Its ok. Doesn’t amaze but is cheaper than the Vichy. Only been using it for a week so far.

PLANNED PURCHASES

Wondering whether vit C would be good fit for helping fade the marks I get from spots. Never too sure about where to layer things when I have prescription creams though. I think Dr Sam has some videos on this which I need to rewatch.
As always considering new spf options – the Elta MD which I was orginaly going to try or perhaps the much loved Frezyderm!

I'm not sure about that Retinol Pupsie, it's a 1% Retinol Retistar, whatever that ingredient may be, rather than 1% Retinol. Never heard of it before.

It's 'lighten' as in help fade pigmentation, mint, not turn you white as a sheet. Admittedly not the best copy edit term to use there.

You're just going to have to build up use from 2x a week, depending on how you react to it build up to 3x a week or every (other) day. Theoretically you should be able to use it 2x a day. It is a very high pH product so the chances of irritation will be low, it's more a case of whether your skin reacts well to the ingredients in it or not. Just use it after cleansing before Vichy 89 (or skip that on those nights).

bo You've convinced me I know they'll make me feel rotten the day after but these are strange times so anything daft and cheering is the way forward.

Talking of daft, MAC have brought out lipglosses that taste of cake, sweets and chocolate. I need one m.maccosmetics.co.uk/collections-oh-sweetie-lipcolour I added one to my Selfridges order and then was sensible and removed it. Thought I'd wait until there were more swatches. Should've kept it in.

💗💗 zo

Bizarrely I have managed a month and a period with no spots I'm amazed, my cycle is so regular and I'm usually covered in hormonal acne over my chin. Not one spot

Go for it Enid! EnablerInChief reigns supreme

Olli, I dare you to go on the miracle soap thread and claim it's all down to washing your pits with soap now

Popping in to say I am 2 days into using Frezyderm and I am in love.

Yesterday afternoon, I wore it to stand in a school playground for 3 hours to help makeup clowns and mafia widows (don't ask) for a play at school, this morning I wore it with my L'Oreal Infallible Pro-Glow foundation on top (which is much more of a thin liquid than I'm used to these days so was dubious) despite walking to school in about 30 degrees, sitting in roasting classrooms then walking home again at 1.30 in (what felt like) 300 degrees, my foundation has stayed put and my face isn't a red sweatball. If I stroke my cheeks now, (after a 40 minute nap as well) they still feel velvety.

@botemp thank you I have ordered it.

I understand what you're saying about the ttdo balm but I didn't feel that double cleansing with just the avene was sufficient for my skin in removing my high spf and make up. I was breaking out a lot which I put down to not removing spf properly which is why I started using the balm followed by avene.

I shall keep you updated on the azelic acid once I receive and start using. Thank you so much for your help x

APRIL & MAY EMPTIES, TRIALS, AND PLANNED PURCHASES

Empties and Routine for the past two months, had very few empties and routine was the same throughout both months.

ROUTINE

AM

Avene Extremely Gentle Cleanser
Uriage Thermal Water (patted dry)
Vichy Liftactiv Antioxidant Booster (or whatever it’s called, the Vit C Serum)
Kiehl’s Ultra Facial Toner (used as a hydrating toner, patted in gently)
Frezyderm Velvet Face SPF50 - obvs

PM

Edenens Milky Cleansing Oil
Avene Extremely Gentle Cleanser or LRP Toleriane Hydrating Cleanser
Uriage Thermal Water (patted dry)
Mo-We-Fr Medik8 R-Retinoate and Verso Super Eye Serum
Tu-Th (sometimes Sa) Biologique Recherche P50
Sa-Su If I can be arsed I use up masks/sheetmasks/etc. but realistically, I usually just skip straight to moisturiser
LRP Toleriane Ultra Nuit

EMPTIES:

April: Vichy Thermal Water I’m finishing up the Uriage which is fine but I loathe it anyway from the skincare pantry backups. Le sigh. I miss the adulterous Vichy bastard, there may have been a really inappropriate middle of the night drunk phone call

April: Vichy Liftactiv Antioxidant Booster - aside from the deceptive price, the limited amount, and necessity to keep it in the fridge to keep it lasting longer I do really like this so have RP but as mentioned above will try the GOW one next.

May: Frezyderm Velvet Face SPF50 - crapped out on me a few days ago and sent me into a panic. Had ordered a new SPF from Japan but no way would that be here in time so the bastard Frezyderm had me signing up to Amazon Prime and shipping it over within a day.

PRODUCTS ON TRIAL:

Kruidvat Super Lash Serum- just bought this a few days ago. It’s an eye lash serum with Bimatoprost high up in the INCI which is what’s in Latiste/the prescription eye stuff in the US. It’s only 10 euros and from our version of Superdrug and bloggers have been raving about it with good visible results so I felt it was worth trying at that price.

A313 cream, if it ever arrives.My order’s been delayed due to lack of stock and then it’ll be a good few days before it arrives at a languid French pace. So most likely it’ll show up after I return from France in July/August at this rate… will be using it for body (1:1 with Cicaplast).

PLANNED PURCHASES:

Garden of Wisdom 23% Vitamin C Ferulic to trial once my current Vichy is finished.

I need a new cleansing oil as it’s running out, which is a bit annoying as it’s the only thing I really need at the moment so purchasing the Edenens from France is not cost effective due to the high shipping costs but there’s not much available locally. May get a travel size DHC one and then a full size from Muji when in France but haven’t really made up my mind yet but I really need to...

Considering ordering AmLactin 12% from the US (Lactic Acid body lotion) as my KP is playing up a bit and Eucerin Urea 10% isn’t working that well at the moment.

SPECIAL MENTION:

Medik8 R-Retinoate 3 month check in. I’m still really really happy with this aside from the ludicrous price. It’s done wonders for my dehydration, I no longer use a hydrating serum at night, I just don’t need it. I also use less moisturiser. I suspect I could do without a hydrating product in the AM as well but I do need to finish up that Kiehl’s toner and then finish up the Kohaku-Hada that I used to use at night as I’d rather not see it go to waste and most likely will want to use it with a Japanese SPF as that has alcohol in it. Other weird side effects of the Medik8 R-R, it’s really sharpened up the contours of my lips, don’t really know how to explain how that happened as I obviously don’t use it on the lips but I assume it’s just a general tightening of the skin surrounding it

Sophie I had a 'blepharoplasty with partial brow lift'. Happy to answer any questions here on privately (I am conscious of influencing people into thinking they need surgery, inadvertently, obviously. Obviously that's not something I want to do!).

Sophie - that photo is the worlds easiest eye makeup!
It's just makeup geek eyeshadows - brownie points over the lid and crease and mocha in the outer corner. Blended both at the same time, tightlined with eyeliner, lined upper lid with black shadow and stuck some of the mocha colour underneath. So 2 shadows really and an eyeliner