Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Style and beauty

Looking for style advice? Chat all about it here. For the latest discounts on fashion and beauty, sign up for Mumsnet Moneysaver emails.

Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!

999 replies

botemp · 29/01/2017 08:36

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault. Grin

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then Wink. Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:


Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
cad186 · 28/02/2017 22:40

Dulci I gave up very quickly with the azelaic acid too. After reading about everyone's successes on here though I am thinking perhaps I should give it another go!

SashaTaught · 28/02/2017 22:42

Thanks for the reply Enid. Well done for getting through it, I think my fingers still hurt!

Best cleansing oil in my opinion, doesn't sting the eyes, lovely and light and doesn't give me a volcanic chin. I'm off balms but I've seen the camomile balm also seems to be popular if you're a balm person.

I didn't realise water could help the circles so I'll definitely try to improve it. I'm fine when at home but my job is too stressful at the moment I tend to shutdown and not eat or drink for most of the day and I avoid the toilets so it does make it difficult. I'll try to persevere.

My dark circles are hereditary too. My mum and gran both have them. My gran sometimes looked like she'd been battered they were so pronounced. I'm currently using the meccas dark circle corrector, Nars creamy concealer or Kevyn Auction concealer but they make my mascara run which is why I've gone on Lumigan.

Thanks for the advice though.

yongnian · 28/02/2017 22:55

Hmm yes, thinking red....but yes the blue is smashing and so is the raspberry!!! Rubs hands together and cackles Grin

botemp · 28/02/2017 22:56

user...202, it depends on what you'd like from a Vit C. The facetheory one uses Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate as their stabilised Vit C, it has its benefits but in comparison to L-Ascorbic Acid and second choice MAP there is very little research. The research that is available suggests it may do the brightening and pigmentation tasks like AA on the supposition that it converts to that but the emphasis is on may. So if pigmentation and brightening is what you'd want it for it wouldn't be my first choice, although FT have put in some licorice root extract in the serum to cover that somewhat. As for aiding in collagen production it performs weaker than MAP which is already less than L-AA (so as an anti-ager it isn't of much interest in that sense, it does have the UV protection boosting properties like other Vit C forms so in that sense it is of interest anti-ageing wise, albeit slightly more one-dimensionally).

What it is good for is acne, some studies suggesting it is as, or more, effective than benzyl peroxide without all the side effects, so as an antimicrobial acne fighter that's also an antioxidant it looks great on paper. The Mad Hippie Vit C Serum, which is quite popular on the Skincare Addiction Reddit, also uses SAP so it does have its fans (but I suspect it is of the acne suffering sort as that mostly populates that Reddit). That one is around 10% SAP and I do wonder if there is any benefit to a 20% version as SAP has better penetration abilities than L-AA (one of the major drawbacks and why the low pH/high % combo is needed) so a lower concentration would be just as good (the studies were all in the 1-5% range). The Mad Hippie is about twice the price though so in that sense the FT becomes interesting. I wouldn't take the offer price too seriously, everything is always discounted to the same prices on there along with the discount codes. Side note, if you do want to buy it I'd contact FT first and ask about the pH, SAP works best at a pH of 6-7 which would mean you also wouldn't use it in the traditional place before BHA and AHA post cleansing like with L-AA but instead after both BHA and AHA.

eversions, how are you using the CosRx (don't remember discussing this product introduction previously, last I remember the PC BHA gel and other acid left you tepid, hence the prepping toner talk)? It's always sensible to build up use no matter how gentle they're supposed to be, so 1-2x a week to start. I also only ever recommend introducing one product at a time, I sort of assume that even if people can't read all the threads back they've at least read through most of the current one so I don't need to continually repeat the basics that cover this, leaving plenty of time to evaluate a product before introducing the next one, not washing your face in the shower, etc.

PHA work a lot like AHAs but are of a larger molecular weight meaning they have less of the sensitising side effects of AHAs. But since you're experiencing issues with the CosRX currently hold off on these for a bit, please.

JDSTER, yes P50 is considered a strong acid (iirc between 9-12% and lowish pH) but much like PHA, lactic acid has a larger molecular weight and is therefore less sensitising than glycolic. I'm not against them as a rule (peels I do find a territory like derma needling where it's sensible to wonder how easy access should be), just feel they need to be approached with caution and a certain amount of guidance.

I think you should start with 1-2x a week for the Retinoid (I'm assuming the 2%, yes?) You can do BHA in the same routine but I'd avoid it (initially) if you can).

yongnian, ten-year-old me is giddy with excitement over the pony! What are the colour options?

SashaTaught, I'll take a closer look tomorrow if that's okay. I don't know what platform you're using but on desktop and mobile browsers there's a choose file option underneath the message box to attach files, alternatively, you can PM me and you can email the pics if you prefer.

Kennington, true, acids will be acids and IME formulations are everything when it comes to them and this is the one skincare realm where I've found spending a bit more reaps better rewards, though I'd happily be proved wrong by TO. However, these formulations carry a lot of similarities if you place the INCIs side by side. I've put them in a google doc here to avoid clogging up the thread. Direct copies they are not (and possibly we're just disagreeing on the semantics of it) but dupes doesn't seem to cover it for me but possibly is the correct term.

I did notice the 2% Salicylic is presented as a spot treatment so I assume it'll be a little thicker texture wise and fits in on their low use acid philosophy slightly better that way, encouraging topical use. INCI wise they added witch hazel which is a shame as some people are quite reactive to that and it lacks the soothing extracts of PC's formulation.

The 7% Glycolic is very similar to Pixi as it has that glycolic-aloe-ginseng-glucose formulation, TO using rose water instead of fragrance to give it a bit of scent. It's not exactly the same, but it feels far too similar, I did read today that Pixi is highly priced in North America, around $40, which kicks it firmly outside of the affordable realm there so I guess it's fair game in that sense. I've never been a big Pixi fan due to some of the irritants (that the TO version doesn't have, though rose water is irritating to some) so this actually looks to be promising for those in need of a daily 'gentler' AHA toner.

The peel is based off Drunk Elephant's T.L.C. Sukari Babyfacial which is a 25% Glycolic TLC + 2% Salicylic peel/weekly treatment. The TLC (Tartaric Lactic and Citric) acid combo with glycolic really is a DE signature. TO is definitely a simpler version of it but again, they look very similar.

I did just have a very traitorous thought about using the peel on my KP arms after all the side eyeing of it these past 24hrs

Meh, Dulci, I continually mess up Azelaic, Salicylic, Matrixyl and countless others Blush

I had the same thing with the Niacinamide 10% thought it was true love and that we'd never be parted but it stopped being impressive after a while and my routine didn't suffer at all without it. Was very weird that way.

OP posts:
Dulcimena · 28/02/2017 23:03

JD Retinoid - just not sure it's doing anything... I've been using it in pretty regular rotation for 4-5 months, but not for the past few weeks and I've seen no difference since stopping. I know it's a longer term thing but still. I came to this thread after a long period of taking "less is more" approach (after royally messing my skin up some years ago) and I feel I'm gravitating back to that. A few products that 100% work for my skin and not faffing about with other stuff. When TO launched it was so easy to get carried away!

Enid good q. Much better than it was when I joined these threads! Vit C and multiple layers of hydration have worked wonders. Generally - tending to dehydration, intolerant of silicone, clog prone at certain times of the month, generally on the dry side, fine with AHAs. I was a bit concerned about perpetual red areas but that's settled down. The azelaic (I will nail that word!) caused clogs overnight both times I trialled it - not hormone related.

Cat I know what you mean! I'd still like to try a non-silicone azelaic.

hollinhurst84 · 28/02/2017 23:07

My matchy so far
Brown, petrol, azure blue, red, champagne (which is shimmery!!), fluorescent orange, red X 2, mint green, pink, another blue which is darker. I think that's it Blush

hollinhurst84 · 28/02/2017 23:09

Dulci- I get you on the retinol. TBH I haven't noticed much difference except I break out a lot less so I'm keeping it for that reason
People say retinol makes a dramatic difference but on peering in the mirror I'm not seeing it Grin
TBF I have only used LRP redermic and TO 2% one. Reluctant to go for anything much higher priced or stronger as I don't have any wrinkles/lines etc

botemp · 28/02/2017 23:15

Finacea Gel is the only Azelaic product I know of that isn't silicone based. It's 15%, but I'm not sure on availability. It's an OTC product in a lot of countries but might not be in the UK.

OP posts:
hollinhurst84 · 28/02/2017 23:19

botemp - prescription only, I googled Sad
I found this https://www.theindependentpharmacy.co.uk/acne/skinoren-cream

Dulcimena · 28/02/2017 23:28

Bo on the topic of instant loves, how are you getting on with the Pig 400? As you know I'm not wholly convinced by P50W and I do wonder if a diff formulation would knock my socks off.

Hollin I've tried Skinoren! Think I was trying to get hold of Finacea but Skinoren was more easily attainable. Didn't stick with it but can't remember why. Probably the fear of destroying my skin by self-prescribing heavy duty stuff again.

EnidButton · 28/02/2017 23:37

Thanks Dulci I'll approach it with caution then. I haven't decided if I have an issue with silicones yet. That's something I should keep a closer eye on. I'm prone to clogging. If it's no good for me maybe I can get opuonions on whether it'd be beneficial for rosacea prone DH. I guess he could always try it as it'll be there to use already. But hopefully I'll have some success with it.

When people use acids, are youvall putting them all over your face or on specific areas? Does anyone 'patchwork' them (makes sense in my head 🙄) so use more than one at a time but in different areas? I'm pretty nervous to put anything all over as like Sasha describes, my chin and lower jar is a problem area and won't tolerate things the rest of my face will. So I was just wondering where/how others apply them?

EnidButton · 28/02/2017 23:38

The p50w for example. All over or just on lines or pores or acne prone areas?

(This could be a stupid question. Brain operating at 20% atm 😏)

Dulcimena · 28/02/2017 23:43

Enid it seems others are having great results so def worth a shot I reckon.

Re the P50W not a stupid q at all - I use all acids everywhere, but you've just reminded me that I did have brilliant results on individual spots, applying P50W directly with a cotton wool bud. So yes I would def rec that if ever necessary Grin

botemp · 28/02/2017 23:50

Still very much loving it and the brightness it brings, Dulci. I'm a bit of a niacinamide junkie, so that might explain it but it always works best for me when it's formulated for brightness (as opposed to blemishes which was the case with TO and why our passion ran out so soon I suspect). I do also find it good for pore refinement surprisingly, haven't really found use for my PC BHA for a while now as a result. Want me to send you a decant?

There's no INCI for the Skinoren on there is there (on mobile)? Suspect it'll be a mineral oil base as it's cream, but yeah, say no to self-prescribing things that are classed as medication. Enid's DH surely will agree with me Halo

BHA I always use in patches, I take the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' approach to my skin. AHAs I have found in the past using them topically usually was a sign that it wasn't agreeing well with my skin, particularly on my cheeks. But targeted spot treatment with acids is perfectly fine in my book especially if you've got compromised skin in areas (which you shouldn't really torture with any forms of exfoliation) but healthy skin elsewhere on the face. And yes to P50 on spots... gone within hours and the healing process is loads quicker too.

OP posts:
EnidButton · 01/03/2017 00:43

Smile At that price its worth a try I think. Thanks for the acid info.

EnidButton · 01/03/2017 00:44

Bo Grin

EnidButton · 01/03/2017 00:51

Sorry that ^ was to DH agreeing with you. He certainly would. Re acids, I like that motto, will use it when I start faffing with my skin too much. I do have some good areas that don't need much.

Also, weirdly, my face has been looking sort if brighter this past week but the only thing that's different is the couple of uses of Ultrabland which I'd decided I didn't like.🤔 Can't quite put my finger on the difference but I look less ill I suppose which is very welcome. Not complaining but it's unexpected.

I see Lancôme do teint idole colour correcting concealers now. Has anyone tried them?

SashaTaught · 01/03/2017 01:12

Thanks bo. Course thats okay btw. If I've learnt anything from reading these threads its not about ingredients its actually that you are crazy generous with your time. If I book a doctors appointment no way would there be this level of knowledge or attention from my GP. I agree so much with previous posters that you need a blog or something. I'd pay for your advice too.

I've added some pictures. I'm finding it hard to get images which capture the seb fils all over my nose and cheeks. Also it will be another few weeks until my eczema or whatever it is really acts up as its just pre-period that it full sheds.

I have been successful in getting photos that seem to create 6 chins and I'm actually gurning in one. Enjoy that.

SashaTaught · 01/03/2017 01:14

Sorry I haven't posted pictures before. it only posted a few I tried to upload so I can pm you the rest if thats easier.

Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!
Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!
Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!
Dulcimena · 01/03/2017 07:06

That's very kind of you Bo but I don't really need it so I'll say no. Thank you though.

Found the Skinoren ingreds - as you suspected. Benzoic acid (E210), cetearyl octanoate, glycerol 85%, glyceryl stearate + cetearyl alcohol + cetyl palmitate + cocoglycerides (CUTINA CBS) , propylene glycol, purified water, stearoyl macrogolglycerides. Although reading the PIL I'm not sure what I thought it would do for me... Confused

Yes, it was Retin-A that upset my skin initially. What happened with your DH? Enid?

Dulcimena · 01/03/2017 07:07

Sacha I've no useful advice but just wanted to say that I love your user name and your skin really doesn't look as bad as you described it! :)

eversions · 01/03/2017 07:35

bo, I meant a BHA in general, not the CosRx BHA specifically. I thought I'd start with 3 times a week AM and PM, but I guess I'll just leave it to the PM and stop the sunscreen too until I know how I'm getting on with the CosRx. Thanks!

botemp · 01/03/2017 08:01

eversion, I'd swap that round. Finding a good sunscreen and using it consistently is more important than BHA (especially at this point). BHA also has a long introduction period, you have to build up use gradually so were usually talking six to eight weeks before an acid is fully embedded in your routine during which it isn't sensible to be introducing anything else (in contrast to the usual two to four weeks). It's one of the factors as to why I always encourage people to sort their basics out first before delving into any actives, those really need to be solid and reliable first.

OP posts:
AuroraPolaris · 01/03/2017 08:13

Hello, girls. Still here and still pretty busy Sad. Should last only a few more days and then I can catch up with the thread, pheeeewww.

bo tonight is LUMEA night Wink and I'm still going to try to make time for that. I hardy have any regrow on my legs, by the way. So I'm sure happy and thus motivated to keep going.

SashaTaught · 01/03/2017 13:35

Thanks Dulci, I like to try and represent carb and chocolate combos at every level.

I really hate my skin, but maybe I've just looked at it too long. I'd love to get to a point where I don't feel dependent on foundation.

Dulci I actually wanted to ask you if you were still interested in trying the Cure Aqua Gel, as I have the Ginvera Green Tea Exfoliating Marvel Gel which is similar and I can easily send out to you/others.

In fact I have a 90% full bottle of the Corsrx Blackhead Power Liquid I will happily pass on to anyone as it does nothing for me.

I think I made a bit of an error yesterday when I impulse purchased LRP Redermic R and the two Hylamide Boosters. I'm concerned about using Redermic on my skin with its redness and peeling. Would it be better to go back and swap the Redermic R with the Sub Q serum, then use that and the boosters instead of Vichy Aqualia in my routine? Its unopened so I should be able to exchange at Boots.