Is there any point in ugly women wearing make-up/ dressing up? Is jewellery OK?

[splendide]

I feel as though there's no point in me making any effort beyond being clean because I look awful whatever I do.

I have this horrible suspicion that people are just laughing at me if I make an effort - as if I delude myself into thinking I'm attractive.

I thought maybe some nice jewellery would mean there was something nice to look at.

Ive just remembered something that seems relevant.

My late Mum was called 'The Gypsy' by my Grandmother. Her sallow, olivey complexion was always unfavourably compared against her younger, and more conventionally beautiful younger sister who had a head full of long golden ringlets and Shirley Temple features. It was made perfectly clear to Mum that she was ugly and dark and 'miserable' looking. Although her life she avoided cameras and when she saw a photo of herself was horrified by her appearance. The sad thing is she was very attractive. I wish I'd taken after her. Everyone who knew her (apart from her parents!) saw her beautiful big brown eyes, her striking bone structure and shiny dark hair. Yet her image of herself was almost monsterous :( She was faking either, she truly believed it.

It does make me wonder if because you have been told you are ugly Splendide that you can't see the real you?

She wasn't faking, I meant. Sorry for the typos.

That is so said, dailymail.

It is virtually impossible to objective about ones appearance.
So, IMO focussing on other qualities than what fashion etc dictates is more likely to be successful in making anybody love themselves. And those other qualities may even include getting good at applying make-up!

I remember a family holiday to Italy when I was 13 really well. I was mortified that I had to let the general public see my monstrous, obese, disgusting body wearing nothing but a very modest navy blue one-piece swimsuit. I was bulging and offensive looking in every respect. I kept a brave face on and basically spent a lot of time in the sea because as long as I was submerged to the neck in the water nobody's eyes could be offended by my horrificness (typical teenaged self-obsession - I suspect nobody was paying much attention).
I recently came across photos of that holiday in a shoe box and not only was I not fat, I was not even remotely overweight. There was absolutely nothing wrong with me, on the contrary I had a very shapely body but could just genuinely not see that.

splendide, keep on going. Try out different things whether they are clothes or make-up or CBT or adopting a 'fuck you!' attitude. Love yourself - you are a miracle of creation and should celebrate yourself as such.

I went to a choir open night last week op. I had to sit at the front and watch them sing one of their numbers.

It was about 40 women? And far more than listening to them singing I was struck by their appearances. Pretty much all of them seemed very nervous (there were maybe 10 newbies sat watching them). A lot were slumped and stated at the floor as they sang as if trying to seem invisible. Without being rude a lot had clearly long since given up and were wearing unshapely fleeces and had dirty hair.

And it was so sad because I bet all of them have achieved something and work hard and have something really interesting about them. And I bet most do a lot of the work to keep their families ticking over.

I just wanted to shake the lot of them and say 'hold your heads high. Be proud.' What is it with women being so easily down trodden? And I say that as someone who has felt similar to you for a lot of my life.

I am trying to pay much more attention to myself. My bra and pants never fit so i'm trying to buy new. I'm eating healthy. I am trying to actually look in the mirror when I buy clothes because I never ever did and it turns out some things look awful on me but some things look good. I'm trying to wear a little more make up and jewellery. It's baby steps but i'd say many many women feel the way we do. It says more about society than us as individuals. Be proud and embrace your good bits because you definitely have some.

Splendide, I love that your toddler loves your nail varnish. That's a great place to start - wear stuff that entertains you and him. I used to have a tortoise ring with tiny legs that moved. DC adored it when they were little. It got some raised brows from the style queens but I'd rather make DC grin any day.

In these discussions it's always worth linking to this post dressaday.com/2006/10/20/you-dont-have-to-be-pretty/

I always think of Susan Boyle when she first burst onto our screens . The abuse that woman got was horrendous just for looking at naturel.

With a good hair cut and and a little bit of make up and well fitted clothes she's been completely transformed and looks stunning.

Make some small changes ( if you wish) . It's up to you how far you wish to take it but above all have fun.

How we present ourselves to the world shouldn't be stressful but enjoyable.

Just googled Susan, look at her here, she looks lovely!

www.bing.com/images/search?q=susan+boyle+weight+loss+2016&view=detailv2&&id=03DC9AA21D5EC7CEFE3180BD09CA9C0495877262&selectedIndex=0&ccid=gNinVWXs&simid=608000266137436301&thid=OIP.M80d8a75565ec59e67fa54d536c315f26o0&ajaxhist=0

Hear hear Doggle

Best wishes splendide

I'm far from a girly girl but my essentials to stop myself looking ahem extremely plain are: flattering but zero maintenance haircut, groomed eyebrows, BB cream or light foundation, eyeliner (or mascara or lipstick - different things work for different faces). That's it. And the first two are done by professionals so it's not hard, but makes a world of difference. I promise you if you make just this little bit of effort, you'll see a massive difference. Also a smiling face is always beautiful, regardless of the bone structure.

Diana Vreeland - what an excellent, kick-ass woman!

Ah but the quote isn't hers though it's Erin's from A Dress A Day, linked above!

I think perhaps if you go to a department store beauty counter and ask advice. Depending on your age and what you want - try Laura Mercier or Bobbi Brown if a 'certain age' or maybe Mac or Lancome or even Boots no 7 and also maybe find a free sclothes shopping advice instore as well. You don't have to buy anything, just try on some stuff or do you have a friend whose judgement you trust. Also don't feel bad about asking strangers outright where they got their hair cut/dress/boots etc if you like what you see.

Don't listen to anyone who puts you down!

Smelly what a brilliant quote! Thank you for sharing it.x

It is great, and it has stuck in my head. I have since stopped wearing make-up regularly, and rarely bother removing hair or wearing heels. I am much more confident as a result.

But it looks like the picture I shared has it wrongly attributed. Thanks for the correct link banivani, I hadn't clicked it, but will save that now

😁 it got misappropriated pretty early on I believe. Does the rounds as a Vreeland quote every few years! 😉

That is a brilliant blog post by A Dress A Day.

I also like that no woman owes un-prettiness to feminism

splendide - with thin mousy hair, go for blonde, not darker.

Brassica - tea tree products sorted my rosacea.

Have been everywhere on the ugly to pretty scale, with some choice comments I can never forget.

splendide - sounds like you're already enjoying trying a few things out. Just wanted to say that I get what you mean about being shy/embarrassed about being seen to make an effort, and wanting to do things that 'no-one would know about'. Doing this also builds confidence - you might find you want to build up to more 'overt' stuff later. Here's some ideas if you want to take steps in that direction - you may already do many of them - if so, take time to notice them?

• good underwear (tick!)
• good hydration - drink your water
• smell nice - start with nice smelling hand soap, shower gel - add a light perfume if you find one you like. (I like to smell nice fragrance on myself, and it reminds me during the day that I took that time to be nice to myself that morning)
• decent skincare - clean & moisturise as a start, Bb cream might be next step?
• a bed that's nice to have a good night's sleep in (clean sheets, cozy bedding, whatever it is that you like)
• bit of fresh air & a walk each day, to avoid total indoor pallor
• clean hair
• clean clothes
• making TIME to do these things FOR YOURSELF - esp when kids are small and demanding, try and carve out that 15 or 30 mins a day to physically look after yourself

Right! I am trying to pull myself together.

I have a half day on Wednesday and I'm going to go bra shopping and maybe buy some make-up.

Does anyone know if Boux Avenue is any good for bras? I have a voucher.

This message made me sad. There is nothing wrong in taking a pride in your appearance - it is good for your self-esteem - and anyone laughs at anybody who looks as if they are happy with themselves are surely the ugly ones. I think smiling is wonderful, try yoga to find your inner peace and glow, and wear as much goddam make up as you want! This is your life - live it like you want to. xxx

Boux Avenue have nice bras depending on size. I can't get anything in there as a 34FF.

One thing that always makes me feel a million dollars though is buying nice pjs and a decent bath bomb. Spend the evening painting nails, giving self pedicure have a nice bath and into new pjs with fresh bed linen. Always a boost and I always feel I sleep amazing that night and therefore look and feel much better the next day. Boux Avenue has lovely pjs so if you can't use your voucher for underwear take a look at pjs.

Another thing that I find helps is earrings. If I'm having a day where I feel particularly rubbish I wear earrings and always feel that the bit of sparkle detracts from my face/hair looking a bit crap.

Have a look at Sali Hughes on Google and you tube
She's fantastic and has loads of self confidence boosting advice.
Take absolutely no notice of what you overheard some bitchy people saying about you - sounds to me like immature cattiness with a touch of envy
Stop immediately saying you are ugly - I have always told my daughter ' never run yourself down- there's plenty of people out there who will do it for you!!!!
That's what you have experienced so don't buy into it

Hello so I've been shopping!

Having done a lot of reading - mostly Sali Hughes thanks for that recommendation!

I've got a Chanel 4 eyeshadow compact, Clinique mascara, benefit erase paste, and a nice red lipstick from Bobbie brown. Also dug out some tinted moisturiser i already had and bought an illuminating face primer.

So far so good! Nobody has laughed at me that I know of and a few people at work said I look well. I'm enjoying messing about with it.

Next mission is to try eye liner.

Good for you op!!