Influencing the Influencers - Disclosure in Social Media (Vol 3)

[FrustratedFrugal]

Continuing the threads that discuss blogging and Instagram

Vol 2

Vol 1

You are right botemp, at least with GN we all know where we stand.

I've only just come across this thread.

Very interesting read. I work in blogger outreach, so I am like a middle man for brands wanting to contact bloggers.

Lots of things in this thread I'd never considered.

Been following these threads for a few days and fins them fascinating.
I agree that these threads are a symptom of a problem many of us had already noticed over the past year or so, and like many have said, the problem can be summed in one word, transparency or lack thereof, which obscures our informed decisions as customers.

So what I mind/ don't mind -
-I don't mind professional blogging, or bloggers making a living out of their blogs. That is absolutely logical, but I want to be made aware of it. It's absolutely fine if someone wants to make a living off their blog or their persona or brand, but I want to know that you are a "sales" channel, meaning you operate that way, thus creating transparency that will lead me to make informed decisions about my spending.
-I don't mind affiliate links. If indeed I buy something based on a recommendation, I'm even happy if the blogger makes a commission, though I never order something without checking prices/ delivery fees in other sites as well.
-I don't mind the free samples etc. They obvs need those in order to churn xx reviews a week. What I mind is "haul" blogs or video's, which pretend the blogger bought the stuff (complete with X shop/ website bag/ box and blogger constantly taking a peek at the loooong receipt) when it's obvs not been payed for. This creates an illusion of "everyone should/ can" afford this, just like me "the girl next door". Same goes for any pretension that the blogger bought a product or went on a shopping spree etc...
-I very much mind a blog doing an ad for certain brands, and then, lo and behold, the product pops up again after a couple of weeks as part of a routine or favourites or it might be a similar product from the same brand (I've also noticed happening the other way around). If that is not an ad or part of a commercial relationship with a brand, then what is?
-Putting #sp or #spon at bottom of Insta post at the end of another twenty hashtags is not enough - just state the obvious, use the full word or use #ad in a very clear way.
-And what's more, no, the tag "sponsored post" is not enough. In my world a sponsorship is when a brand gives you money and you mention their name and logo, but they have no influence on what you are doing (like in sport or culture events). The situations we are discussing are an advertisement, so as far as I'm concerned calling them sponsorship is also slightly misleading, especially for a young audience.
-I very much mind any type of product placement awithout calling it an ad.
-Don't try and hide an expensive product which is obviously part of what you are promoting in a post with other cheaper options, when everyone knows you are affiliated with that brand.

I'm sure everyone here read those blogs because they love beauty and because it's/ was fun, so hopefully things will change in the near future, and agencies and bloggers will realise we are not stupid. Believe me, if a brand annoys me in that way, I will NOT buy the product even if I like it. So dear brands, take from this what you will....

cizzbot I wonder where I got the impression everyone gushed over it?

botemp mentioned a subscription service a few pages back.

I think I'd be prepared to do that. I never thought twice about paying for magazines and it was boredom rather than cost that led me to give them up. I'd prefer an upfront exchange of money to the charade we have now.

However most bloggers would need to up their game first. I would pay for good writing, interesting topics and genuine research but not for copy-and-paste PR.

Also magazines charge but they still seem beholden to their advertisers - that's how I got into bloggers in the first place - so I'm not sure how well it would solve the problem.

I think magazines started losing their relevance when their financial survival subsisted only on the whim of their advertisers and no longer on their subscribers Floisme. That really hasn't changed and I don't see it changing. The bloggers are now operating on the same model, they need their readers for the stats but they're reliant on something other than their readership for their income. It's a balancing act and I do see it tipping more and more into the brand's favour.

dig I do remember CH giving a preview of the Luna oil at some point far before it was released and a small feature on it when it was (not a review I think) and at some point an update how to use it properly which was later altered to a more critical stance months after the hype as mentioned by cizzbot. Her frequent silence on it when asked about it spoke volumes to me at the time but I'm already quite averse to anything Sunday Riley as I consider it skincare on steroids. Everything I've ever sampled has either broken me out with unprecedented eruptions (I'm normally not even close to anything acne-prone) in places where I've never broken out in my life or it feels like my face is burning off. I am curious though dig, whether your current happiness with Luna is down to the fact that you managed to get an expensive product that appeared to be a dud to work for you or if it's an encompassing love that'll have you continue to repurchase it?

Well put AuroraPolaris I never considered the semantics of 'sponsored' vs. 'ad'. Sponsorship does indeed suggest something completely different, long standing relationships, etc. The frustrating thing with this all is that I consider something an ad whenever money has been exchanged for guaranteed space, period. The ASA only considers it an ad if there is money exchanged and there's been creative input so a lot of what we would consider an ad or advertorial is allowed to go on undisclosed without any wrongdoing. Add to that that the enforcing body (the ASA) has no way of checking whatever agreement has been made on content input between brand and blogger, how am I as a complete outsider supposed to know what is genuine or not? I can only vaguely rely on 'trusted' bloggers now who have demonstrated at length that their opinions are genuine and remain that but as seen in this thread when prompted to identify these bloggers we've barely made it to a handful. And the blogosphere as a whole does nothing more than condemn bad practices while at the same the time they're not exactly purging the chief offenders out either.

No one’s going to get called out for bad practice and dodgy dealings on someone else’s blog because no one wants to get sued. This might explain why some of the newspapers have backed away from the story as well. Not enough hard evidence to make the legal department sign the article off.

Tubbs

botemp
Good questions. I think I'm happy because finally expensive products work but I had the same problem as you re break outs with good genes. Always broke me out until I used it with Luna and then no problem at all. I don't think I would buy it again (and yes, that occurred to me when I wrote my previous post) but Together they are the only products I have ever used that have made an actual overnight difference to my skin.

MrsTubbs That legal issue is exactly it - I started researching a piece on this and finding people who will go on the record about it, provide documentary evidence to back it up etc, is really hard...Although this might be of interest...
I spoke to one PR who told me "Recently we were in touch with a blogger who used to attend little events and do posts free of charge. She is now charging – through her agent - £6.5k for a sponsored blog post and one Instagram post. £10k for a vlog post about the brand exclusively, or £6.5k for your brand to be included in a vlog with other brands. It’s a mockery of what blogging actually started for."

botemp I had a similar issue with Good Genes, it also broke me out, though I did enjoy the SR eye cream (which is relatively good value for money as it is 30 ml), so I am weary of other SR products, as Space NK are not very generous with samples (just asked for one last week, and they claimed they don't have a tester - well, why should I buy a ££ product without testing it?). But there are so many nice face oils one can enjoy that do not cost that much, and as far as I can remember it's not clear what the retinol % is, but I might be wrong.

featuresjourno why does PR expect bloggers to do their advertising work for free? It's true that that is how things started, but as the net is driving the brands' sales, why should they demand ppl work free of charge while they make profit?
As I stated, my problem is with the transparency, as obviously we wheel will not be turned back.

AuroraPolaris I think we share the same view - if bloggers have to make money from their blog, then yes, they have to take money from brands, and yes, this should be declared.
I just know that I've heard from a lot of PRs that they know some blogs won't feature brands in their "editorial" at all if those brands are not also buying sponsored content, and that to me seems wrong. It comes back to the fact that he who pays the piper calls the tune - and if the people paying the piper are beauty brands rather than readers, it's very difficult for that tune not to favour them.
But then maybe I'm just jealous because if I write a positive piece about a product in a newspaper, because I genuinely believe it's a great product, I KNOW it can drive sales, but I still get paid the same fee (which is nowhere near four figures!) AND get online commenters asking how much I got paid to flog this product...

Hello

I am here to apologise for my posts on the previous two threads, and to make clear that I have withdrawn them because I realised that I jumped to unwarranted and hasty conclusions. what I said was unfair and I am very sorry to have made those posts.

Once again, I would like to apologise wholeheartedly and make it clear that I realise my comments were unfair.

Featuresjourno how fascinating. I understand how difficult this topic is. And I can also understand how lots of people might be unnerved. I agree that blogging is hard work, but still, the quoted prices are high, and if they are at all realistic, I understand that they might unsettle lots of followers.

I met up with a few friends today. The first one is on the industry side these days. The second one used to work in glossies and has also been a lifestyle blogger. The first person was growing disillusioned with bloggers (and said many local cosmetics companies now increasingly skip them and find other ways of reaching their customers. The second person said that not only has she stopped blogging, but she has also stopped following other people's blogs because there are so very few good ones left. (We are not in the UK.)

Maybe me and my friends are an exception rather than the norm, but my friends have always been early adopters. We used to love blogs and followed tons of them, but these days our feeds are empty.

Good Genes was actually the one that made it feel like my face was burning off, it was an oil (I'd have to look up which one but it wasn't Luna) that caused the epic breakout (never had a reaction to an oil before or after that one). Similar experience with the ceramic slip cleanser.

That's really annoying about the samples Aurora, they can always decant but I guess if you're asking after SR they are probably inundated by young girls who saw something on youtube and just want to try it and will never purchase it. I was recently asked to pay (it was very little but still) for a decant, very strange experience.

featuresjourno and mrstubbs I get the legal issue but naming and shaming isn't the only way to purge your chief offenders. We as a society didn't take doctors seriously as the medical professionals they are today until the smarter ones started congregating and self imposing standards and establishing medical schools to distinguish themselves from the swindlers hawking snake oil and other 'wondrous' potions. Bloggers shouldn't be surprised we paint them all with the same brush (and by extension online journalists by the uninformed) if they don't find a way to distance themselves, simply saying it happens and they disapprove of it just isn't cutting it.

Should add that online journalists was in reference to featuresjourno not SH, since featuresjourno mentioned in her comment that she gets online comments asking how much she got paid to write something. Didn't realise the possibility of misreading that till after posting .

I agree botemp. Of course they have to be careful about public allegations but it's not good enough to throw up their hands and say 'but everyone knows who the real culprits are'. No, I don't know and why should I?

frugal I'm slightly dismayed to hear that brands are now looking to find other ways of reaching customers. They've already ruined magazines and blogs for me - I wonder what they'll set their sights on next?

Floisme I didn't ask - we moved on to other more interesting topics - but I hope it's stuff like Snapchat and Periscope. I bet you won't be too bothered if they are ruined

Oh they can have periscope - I've no idea what it even is

I've been getting into people-watching all over again and loving it: spotting really stylish women of all ages and I'd have probably never noticed them if I was still wasting my time on blogs.

I, stupidly, splashed out on a bottle of Juno oil on the recommendation of Hirons. Never before have I reacted to a facial oil, not sure what the hell it was but I was left red, swollen with sand paper textured skin, even my eyelids were puffed up.

Now I'm sure this over priced crap works for some skins but I'll never touch another Sunday bloody Riley product again.

You know I always regard the Americans with envy MsBojangles since they can just go back to the store and return used beauty products that aren't working for you. I wonder if SpaceNK would continue to hawk SR if we all returned the stuff that wasn't working for us.

Supposedly a trend for 2016 is 'Offline is the New Luxury'. Stupid as it sounds I can attest to its efficacy, I purged a lot of social media nonsense, newsletters, and my blogfeed over 2015 and it's wonderful to have it all pared down. I only look at online shopping during the sales periods and have rediscovered the joy of shopping in small independent shops the rest of the year.

In regards to what brands are trying now Floisme, I've noticed a steady increase in actual snail mail from brands and stores over the past year or so and I have to admit it gets my notice far more effectively than my electronic inbox.

Oh and periscope is pretty much youtube without the production value and the video disappears within 24hrs. Naturally it is predominantly used for nudity...

Ah well, I've had pretty bad breakouts from quite expensive "cult" products in the past few years, so I don't buy anything pricey anymore without testing for a week at least.
I'm really enjoying the Caudelie Polyphenol oil at the mo, it works really well under an all night mask, and the Pai Rosehip oil is pretty amazing and gives an amazing glow in the AM. And of course there are always the Clarins oils. If I write here for how many years I've been using the lotus oil I think Clarins will def have to pay me blogger's fees
Yep, purged all my feeds and subscription during the past weeks!

The purposes of nudity apart, isn't Periscope based on being more interactive in real time? You Tube content is put out there, but with Periscope the broadcaster responds to real time viewers as they broadcast?

I've purged a lot of blogs, forums, Instagrams recently so happy to be on trend! For the bloggers - can't they just keep it simple? Say, here's a product I like, they sent it to me to try and after 2 weeks I love it. Or here's a great product from a brand I've been working with (elaborate if required). And here's one I bought with my own money, because (whatever reason). That's what I want to read anyway.

It is EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard, viewers can comment and because it's broadcast in real time (though you can view back) there's the possibility for interaction but it depends on the broadcaster if they respond to that. I think it's cleaned up a bit recently but it used to be that every other commenter was asking to see boobs or rather the autocorrect version 'bobs'.

I'll have to check out the Caudalie one Aurora I think naturismo has it in the sample section and since I'm not UK based I can always get Caudalie pretty cheap. I like the Pai Rosehip oil too (great price) but I prefer their Age Confidence one which is a bit pricier, I'm dehydrated so always get forced into buying the hiked up prices of anti-aging while not necessarily needing it yet but the age confidence one is really nice for summer, hydrating but not heavy, almost serum like. I really want to like the Clarins Blue Orchid but I can't get on with the smell so never purchased, does it linger with you? Lately I've been buying a few of the MV Organic Skincare oils which are all really, really nice but extortionately priced. I so wish I knew someone in Australia, the price difference is staggering. I've also got my eyes on a 100% Camellia Seed Extract Oil from Blossom Jeju which they've just introduced at Cult Beauty, but you can get it from Korea directly for far less (around $20 (US) with shipping. It's supposed to just sink into the skin with no residue while being really hydrating so it sounds promising.

Botemp easypharmacie have really good prices for Caudelie as well as for Weleda body oils etc, so if you order some extra stuff it really pays off, even with shipping charges.
I use the Clarins Lotus oil, which strictly speaking is not for my skin type (normal-dry and well behaved) works for me and the smell is highly addictive. God, I could live inside that bottle! Don't care for the smell of the Blue Orchid one either...
I like the sound of that Korean oil, and I've been pretty pleased with the stuff I've ordered from Korea up to now, so guess I'll have to check it out.....