Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Style and beauty

Looking for style advice? Chat all about it here. For the latest discounts on fashion and beauty, sign up for Mumsnet Moneysaver emails.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Influencing the Influencers - Disclosure in Social Media (Vol 3)

215 replies

FrustratedFrugal · 07/03/2016 16:04

Continuing the threads that discuss blogging and Instagram

Vol 2

Vol 1

OP posts:
bigbuttons · 08/03/2016 06:46

I also like snowhite and the asianpear for advice on AB stuff.

What I really WANT to see are negative reviews on blogs. I find it very suspect if I can't find any. I wold trust someone much more of they said something was crap and why they thought so. I don't buy the line that it's not worth giving age space to a poor product and that it's only worth reviewing good ones.
No, we need to know if they are poor and ineffectual.

Floisme · 08/03/2016 07:34

Hear hear bigbuttons. They are having a laugh with that line.

Anyway I've started checking out some of the blogs mentioned on this thread. On British Beauty Blogger, the first thing I saw when I opened the home page was a link to a disclosure statement and a clearly marked list of sponsored features. I also found a review where she takes the piss out of a product (La Roche Posay Wearable Beauty Patch - it won't work without your phone!). I also liked the reading page - sorry to keep banging on about early bloggers but one of the things I really miss is that they wrote about anything they were interested in, be it clothes, politics, make up, films, books or food.

So step forward and take a bow, Jane Cunningham. And apologies, I think you were the blogger who joined in the first thread and I was pretty unsympathetic. Blush

Housewife2010 · 08/03/2016 08:13

Quite a few bloggers do disappointing products vlogs - eg Lily pebbles, I covet thee and fleur de force. In the last few days I have noticed a lot more disclaimers in blogs and more budget products which must be thanks to these threads. Jane at BBB has always been clear on her periscopes if she doesn't think much of a product.

botemp · 08/03/2016 09:03

Yes, Jane from BBB deserves a bit of recognition and a set of apologies, it was unfortunate that many swarmed on her for merely introducing herself as a blogger on that first thread while attempting to explain and set right some misconceptions. I do wish she'd name and shame the brands who misbehave behind the scenes though because I'd rather not spend my money with them. But I also understand that would make her situation with others completely unworkable. Since she receives most of what other bloggers do in the PR sample department you can sort of make an estimated guess who's absent with her. SH's ITB video with her is great too.

Indeed Housewife2010 there are 'disappointing' products vlogs out there, they are usually also disclaimed at length with the 'what doesn't work for me may work for you and everything else from this brand is great' mantra ultimately devolving into the this didn't work for my skin type spiel and/or didn't live up to the hype explanation. Personally I think it's also connected to the free sample culture. When I've spent money on something, and a good amount of it, after sampling and researching the product and find it doesn't deliver on any of its promises long term the disappointment is huge, however, if it's a sample I got for free (even if I went out of my way to get it) and found it underwhelming after trialing it for a fair amount of time I'm just not as upset about it even though I've likely invested the same amount of time researching it.

extralemonylemoncake · 08/03/2016 09:07

I wonder whether some of the excesses also take place because many bloggers and social media stars are not professional marketers. Some of them seem a bit cultish, there is a touch of Forever Living about it, and if you dissent, you will get napalmed. If not by the cult leader, then by the most zealous followers.

God yes, absolutely. The more extreme cases actually put me off the blogger, their skin care philosophy and the product all at once! What excellent marketing. Grin
If I were a blogger, I wouldn't be happy with nutty fans piling in on anyone who dared to ask an even mildly critical question and would call them out and delete as appropriate. Nasty fan girls can easily make an entire blog look rather unpleasant.

However I also think it is up to bloggers to put their house in order, not for me to think up a way of keeping them in business. They are not the 5th emergency service and the world would carry on without them.

I couldn't agree more! This is also why I have somewhat mixed feelings about this new thread. While I would love to see a new approach to disclosure and transparency, I really think the initiative needs to come from influencers themselves. Let them do the work, after all their subscribers' trust is what's paying their bills. I'm sure they are perfectly aware that a growing number of readers is cottoning on to their shady tactics and isn't happy. If they can't be bothered to make changes, that tells me all I need to know about them and how much they really value their readers. So I'll sit back now and see what happens.

For now I will look into making my own products, even though chemistry bored me to tears at school and I can't remember a thing.
Also, 50 Shades of Snail and Snow White and the Asian Pear look great and I like Asian products anyways, so thanks to the posters who recommended them!

MintyChops · 08/03/2016 09:32

I think Sali responded pretty well. She is clearly upset by the last thread (or two) but I respect her for her post. What I don't respect from either her or CH is the wittering on about how they "had" to spend Mothers' Day dealing with this and saying that this is all bullying and nasty bitchy Mumsnet. The other threads were around for a good while and if they both chose to put something up on Instagram referring to it on Mothers' Day or at midnight the night before or whenever they did, they can expect a reaction. Additionally, there have been many, many polite, reasonable, non-bitchy people contributing so that's just a lazy accusation.

Anyone notice that CH's page says something along the lines of "as of 1st March 2016 I will no longer be doing sponsored posts". Posted, presumably, on 6th March during the whole Mothers' Day Debacle (MDD).....

AdventuresOfADentist · 08/03/2016 09:52

The no negative reviews thing shows the unhealthy connection between the brands PRs and the bloggers. As pp have said, imagine if film reviewers just spoke about things they liked. Has mark kermode ever turned up to a screening and they've said "oh you slated the last film we made so you can't watch this one"? No. But I suppose that's film, not products. But still...

MadameDePompom · 08/03/2016 09:55

'Can you imagine Mark Kermode trying to justify why he only talks about a films if he likes it?'

Exactly! Why do bloggers feel it's better to say nothing about a shitty product than to give an honest review.

Cizzbot · 08/03/2016 10:17

on CH IG
Fan asks ' la mer eye concentrate or Estée lauder renutriv ultimate contouring'
CH ' don't think I've tried Estée lauder one so couldn't say'
Fan replies ' Jeez Caroline its ur favourite eye cream!'
Ch ' OH God LOL..,,,..

Gleam team CH & AMR promoting budget yesterday/today.
I've decided to just avoid gleam team bloggers. Though that they are gleam is hidden in contact info. Should be on the front page.
Yes I think it is up to the bloggers to be transparent as there is nothing wrong with earning money from a blog just don't fake it. No one likes a faker

MintyChops · 08/03/2016 12:12

Cizzbot Grin, that's really funny!

MrsTubbs · 08/03/2016 12:16

Having read the comments in Sali’s piece, most of her concerns relate to the contributions made by iamnina and a few of the responses. Iamnina, having lobbed her comments into the discussion to maximum effect, appears to have de-registered. Hmm

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I’m assuming that I have been played with by someone who is happy to share work confidential information to settle scores. Angry Sad Blush

Tubbs

KateMumsnet · 08/03/2016 12:17

@MrsBertMacklin

Well, this is a bit embarrassing..!

The Mumsnet Bloggers Network has a handy guide to how to get income from your blog, with fuck-all mention about disclosures

So maybe as a starting point, MN Towers could ask the author of the above article to update it with a 'blogging ethically' section?

MrsBertMacklin that is an excellent suggestion - we should indeed have info and advice on this. We'll crack on with it right away.

JaneBBB1 · 08/03/2016 12:37

Hey thank you so much. I want to let you know - because I've listened! - what changes I've made to be even more clear. There always used to be a disclaimer on the bottom of every post saying that unless otherwise clearly stated, all products are sent by brands/PRs. I've re-instated that so every single post carries that message so there is no doubt at all.

I think what you also need to know is that by the ASA guidelines, if a brand has had no creative input in a post, then the rules state that there is no need to declare that money has changed hands. That's their rule, and I am surprised that Iamnina didn't ever mention it (that I saw, but haven't followed fully). Most bloggers entirely ignore that and declare, when legally, there is no need to do so. We have very much tried to change that with no success. Please believe that behind the scenes we do try to make changes. I see that you are now aware that Iamnina is gone, and I can assure you that many, although not all, of her assertions are not entirely correct. We will never quite know why she chose to 'inform' in the way she did, but it's been misleading to say the least.

Bloggers are very much aware that there are many things with wrong with how the blogosphere works and most of us want no part of the wrongs. It's frustrating for us that while the arrows are flying, they've completely missed their target.

MrsTubbs · 08/03/2016 13:23

Jane, so glad you came back. Chocolate It would be really helpful if you can correct some of the mis-information iamnina shared if you're able too.

Housewife2010 · 08/03/2016 13:40

Hello Jane. Welcome back. X

UntamedShrew · 08/03/2016 13:52

Interesting Jane, really nice to have you back (glad one blogger at least doesn't think we are all a bunch of gossiping meanies hellbent on taking down other women on mother's day). I wonder if you could let me know your point of view on one of Nina's allegations about instagram product / routine line ups - are these paid for? It is separate to the blog so I don't know if they would be under any obligation to disclose - obviously they should, but do they have to? And is it even a thing that happens or was that inaccurate? Thank you.

oOJJOo · 08/03/2016 13:54

I'm not going to take it as read that iamnina was simply talking rubbish just because Sali Hughes has said so. I'm sure that Sali and Jane are telling the truth about their own particular set-ups, and that what Nina said doesn't apply to them, but this doesn't mean it might not be true for some bloggers and some agencies?

I don't really get why Nina would come on and just make up a whole load of absolute rubbish for no reason. Especially seeing as she wasn't particularly naming names... The idea that she was 'settling scores' doesn't ring true - she didn't sound like she had a particular vendetta against anyone and was more talking about the industry as a whole.

That said, I'm not going to take everything Nina said on face value either, she is only one partisan member of the industry - she may have got things wrong, she may have over-exaggerated how wide-spread certain issues are. (And of course, there is the possibility that she really was just stirring for the sake of it - that she's actually not in the industry at all and was just making it all up. But that seems fairly unlikely (why bother?) and a lot of what she said does appear to have at least some truth in it).

As to why she left - I don't think that's suspicious at all... As soon as all the talk of lawyers and libel started to be bandied around (inc. Sali Hughes contacting Mumsnet HQ directly), she clearly got spooked and left... Which is presumably what Sali et al. wanted.

So yeah, I don't know how we'll get to the bottom of what was and wasn't true in what she said, or how widespread the practices she spoke about are, but just because they're not true for Sali and Jane and a number of more honest bloggers, doesn't mean they're all just complete fiction.

oOJJOo · 08/03/2016 14:00

p.s. thanks Jane for returning. It's honestly really appreciated that you're not just poo-pooing this whole thread as mean gossip, and that you're actually listening Smile

I second the request that, if you have a minute, you might do a run through of your impressions about what is and isn't true in Nina's posts... not in relation to your own blogging practice but in relation to standards in the industry more generally...

extralemonylemoncake · 08/03/2016 14:56

Cizzbot, great find, that's hilarious! CH dedicated an entire blog post to that Estée Lauder eye cream and raved about it in her bathroom video with Sali but now she can't remember ever trying it. Grin

Regarding iamnina, sorry if I'm being daft, but why are people saying that she has de-registered? She hasn't come back to the thread (and there could be many reasons for that), but I can't see anything that would indicate she has deleted her account?
If she has made false allegations, it would be helpful to hear what they were. A lot of what she said seems quite plausible and dismissing it all as "inaccurate" without going into further detail can easily look like trying to silence an uncomfortable poster. I'm not suggesting that this is what Jane or MrsTubbs are trying to do at all, I just wanted to emphasize what it can look like.

The fact that iamnina may have shared confidential work information on here to me doesn't necessarily mean her allegations are untrue, even if she did it to settle a personal score (which may not even be the case). In a former job, I almost ended up whistleblowing and that certainly wasn't about revenge but all about protecting unsuspecting clients.

Jane, I think it's great that you and Haley have repeatedly spoken up about transparency and started a campaign, even though for my taste the proposals don't go far enough. May I ask if any well-known bloggers have signed your manifesto / linked to that post / shown support in any other way?
I have just had a look at your disclosure page and while it is miles ahead of many others, I think it would be great if you could elaborate on the consultancies bit (names of companies you have worked with past and present). Also it would be nice to know which companies have misbehaved behind the scenes so we can avoid.

You have stated that "the arrows have missed their target". Who or what should our target be? Are you like Sali referring to "much worse offenders" and if so, who are they? What should subscribers be doing in your opinion? And why aren't more bloggers just doing it themselves? Surely the blogging community can't expect readers to campaign the ASA for stricter rules? I think that would be very low on everyone's priority list when there are much more important issues people can't be arsed to campaign against.

You said that "most of us (bloggers) want no part of the wrongs". If that is the case, many of the big names have been remarkably silent on the issue. I'm not doubting your good intentions at all, just wondering, how many are really on board with them.

extralemonylemoncake · 08/03/2016 15:00

Should have refreshed before I started writing my post, completely agree with oOJJOo regarding iamnina.

UntamedShrew · 08/03/2016 15:10

Sorry didn't mean for one minute to imply that Nina's allegations were inaccurate - more that I would like Jane to provide her point of view. Interesting to hear both sides, apologies if I gave the impression I didn't believe Nina as to be honest, I do believe her version of events is true for a great many bloggers large and small.

bigbuttons · 08/03/2016 15:23

Tubbs, where can you see that iamnina has deregistered? Surely she's just not posting. I am happy to stand corrected.

MitzyLeFrouf · 08/03/2016 15:25

Sali Hughes has said that iamnina has de-registered. I presume she got this information from MNHQ directly.

JaneBBB1 · 08/03/2016 15:58

Is it possible that one of you can ask some specific questions that you'd like answered. I'm finding it quite hard going back over pages and pages! I will do my best to answer, but I can only speak about my own blog and practices as I am sure you will understand. I'm happy to discuss more about the generalities in the blogosphere, but naming names really isn't my style.. I feel karma takes care of things like that in the end! I'll pop back this evening and happy to answer x

extralemonylemoncake · 08/03/2016 16:03

You can still click on "Message poster" next to iamnina's name. I assumed that wouldn't work with a de-registered poster? Anyone know?