Influencing the Influencers - Disclosure in Social Media (Vol 3)

[FrustratedFrugal]

Continuing the threads that discuss blogging and Instagram

Vol 2

Vol 1

Yes frugal, like you I'm a cautious optimist. I would hope that bloggers would see the benefit of creating a set of principles and standards and publishing them openly. It gives accountability, because the general public can decide for themselves whether those standards are being met by a specific blogger. And it's a good lever for bloggers and businesses that are a bit, erm, reluctant to change.

Reasons to be less optimistic - who will make it happen? It'd be nice to think that someone like Gleam would lead the way but... I guess they've done their sums and the extra £££ from cynical sticklers like us won't outweigh the ££££££££ losses of moving from the status quo.

howmany I know what you mean about the bathtowels, but then where do you draw the line? If you trust individual bloggers to draw it for themselves you get back to the same problems. Plus I think it's more about the bathtowels plus the dinners plus the press trips and the rest, from lots of brands all owned by the same parent company - it's about the bigger relationships, IYSWIM

Well, this is a bit embarrassing..!

The Mumsnet Bloggers Network has a handy guide to how to get income from your blog, with fuck-all mention about disclosures

So maybe as a starting point, MN Towers could ask the author of the above article to update it with a 'blogging ethically' section?

MrsBertMacklin ouch

Howmanyminutes a code of conduct would definitely help me to rebuild trust.

Re good blogs, I don't have many positive examples because I've unsubscribed nearly everything.

The Scandi bloggers I still like write about 50-50 positive and negative reviews. One of them (she has hundreds of thousands of montly visitors and is a professional blogger) just blogged that a RMS Beauty foundation looks fabulous for about an hour but feels tacky and goes patchy really quickly - she showed exactly how with macro shots. And then she showed how their eye shadow goes streaky. It could be a calculated strategy but I think this type of information is very useful for the consumer. The sample was sponsored and marked as such and there was a link to the shop. She rounded up her post with a positive review of their face oil. She also wrote about a cosmetics chain and tagged 'great', 'meh' and 'blah' products. Again, very useful for the consumer, and I felt tempted to visit the shop to try one of her recommendations.

And I've said it before, I really like this US-based beauty blogger.

Any big UK-based bloggers that I still like? The Frugality is a bit more upfront about disclosure than many other fashion bloggers. She could mark her affiliate links more clearly but at least she admits that she uses them. When she stays somewhere, she says that the room was paid for her. And her collaborations seem easy to spot too.

Thinking about this some more, as far as I'm concerned being prepared to give a negative review isn't just a 'nice to have', it would be a bottom line.

Can you imagine Mark Kermode trying to justify why he only talks about a films if he likes it?

Evening all, well the other thread got a bit messy didn't it.

We've been portrayed as a nasty bunch of jealous crones, was there a strategy employed in the Mother's Day fight back?, who knows

Anyway, I'd like to see a 'why I didn't like it' slot about products that didn't do 'it' and weren't worth the hype or cost, to those of us who pay for the actual product.

StillStayingClassySanDiego you're not kidding. I was impressed SH took the time to write what she did but that poster who popped up in her defence, yikes. That was awful.

flippanda I know, it really went tits up.

Anyway I've thoroughly enjoyed the threads, they've been informative, made me a touch more cynical ( a good thing ) and I'd come here for advice before anywhere else.

Well for regulation to be truly effective it needs to be independently funded and organised. Which usually means public funding etc.

But this isn't exactly a top priority for policy makers, so bottom up / self regulation is where it will have to start.

(...)

I think some of the big bloggers could facilitate this, by getting together, consulting opinion, developing some common standards and guidelines, following them themselves etc.

Like the 'Fair trade' logo, there could be a shorthand which bloggers following that approach display on their site - it would / should help them build an audience, and also help smaller and newer bloggers withstand the pressure.

I completely agree with Dougal's post, but can't really see it happening yet. As Freia wrote, the extra £££ from cynical sticklers like us won't outweigh the ££££££££ losses of moving from the status quo.

The only influencer who has tried to properly address the concerns voiced on here was Sali and even with her, I feel some questions remain open. Most of the other significant players have ignored or cried "bullying" and seem to be hoping it will all go away as quickly and quietly as possible.

From what I can see (happy to be corrected), none of the big influencers - even "good apples" like Sali - have previously felt it necessary to publicly address the lack of disclosure and the conflicts of interest in beauty blogging and beauty journalism in any major way. Sali mentions on twitter that we "weirdly ignore the worst offenders", so she clearly thinks / knows that some of the big influencers are pulling the wool over their readers' eyes for financial gain. If even someone as popular, well-respected and articulate as Sali only addresses these issues when pressed for answers, how are we supposed to trust the rest of the bunch?

Why have none of the major players felt that some sort of proper self-regulation is in order when the current regulating body obviously doesn't give a fuck and many bloggers evidently violate even the existing, pretty lenient codes of conduct? Surely it was obvious that this would start to reflect badly on everyone and erode trust? Also doesn't help when you're signed with the same PR firm as some obviously dodgy bloggers. Why didn't the honest bloggers feel the need to warn their readers and protect them from manipulation?

Even if some of the big bloggers were to implement some sort of self-regulation now, it would all feel a bit forced and dishonest. Not sure if this would do much to re-establish trust for me. I think a proper admission of how things have gone wrong in the past would be a good idea. Not just from those who have actively deceived readers and not disclosed financial interests properly, but also from those who have kept quiet about dodgy brands and bloggers.

howmany oh I think I totally misread your previous post, sorry . We are of a mind! Yes, give us the info and let us decide for ourselves.

Yes, lots of food for thought. I agree with 'give us the info and let us decide'.

As I said in the previous thread, I'm not bothered about the freebies. But yes please to more transparency.

Great post Extralemony!

I wonder whether some of the excesses also take place because many bloggers and social media stars are not professional marketers. Some of them seem a bit cultish, there is a touch of Forever Living about it, and if you dissent, you will get napalmed. If not by the cult leader, then by the most zealous followers.

To me, great marketing is not psychological manipulation (bullying someone into buying, lying about a product, or preying on someone's vulnerabilities). Great marketing helps me to solve a problem that I have. This might mean finding a product that works for me - by really making sure that it works. When I find stuff like that, I become a loyal customer, and also tell other people about how much I like what I have found.

Someone, I think a digital marketer on Floisme's links, said that brands are overly eager to script how social media influencers interact with their fanbase. He said that brands should give the influencers freer reign, because people tend to spot fake endorsements. And that's definitely what I am getting from some blogs. A telemarketer's script

Sorry, Forever Living is obviously professional marketing. But not something that I find particularly appealing

Jane at British Beauty Blogger and Haley at London Beauty Queen have highlighted these issues and attempted to get the ASA to act. Haley has a pledge that bloggers can sign: www.londonbeautyqueen.com/2015/07/self-regulation-shady-guidelines.html

I think they're the only top their bloggers who've highlighted this. Although, TBF, I gave up on a lot of the others ages ago. Seeing some of the others sign the pledge would be good.

I'm pleased that Hirons and Hughes have responded. As a reader, I'll see how they go.

Tubbs

Disappointing to see bloggers on twitter congratulating SH on her response to MN bullying.....i hate to think that anyone felt bullied, altgough not sure that was what SH was saying in her comment.

Woukd love to see bloggers, as the journalist they are praising did, comment on consulting etc

Thanks FrustratedFrugal for this thread, I'm glad to see it continue on in a thoughtful way.

Regarding bloggers who do disclose properly; in my opinion Jane from BritishBeautyBlogger is someone who I implicitly trust. She doesn't have an agent, isn't reliant on her blog for income, is firmly an advocate for her readership and is focused on product rather than promoting her personality. She gives her honest opinion on very diverse content, declaring something crap if it is and as a whole feels balanced. When seeking out paid work, be it consultancy or advertising on her blog, it is at her initiation and she clearly is in charge rather than the brand and it is done so for the benefit of the blog. It feels much more like her baby than a vanity project. She's often at odds with PR and brands for pushing bloggers into salespeople where she is firmly of the opinion that it isn't their job. The pieces I enjoy most are her more op-ed like pieces about the blogging and beauty industry and I really like her periscope channel.

I believe much of the same can be said for London Beauty Queen whose blog I don't follow but she's very much a spokesperson for more transparency in the beauty blogging sector, demanding action from the ASA, etc.

Inspired by another thread here I've finally started properly researching Asian skincare. I have to say the bloggers in that particular niche disclose to a level I've yet to see anywhere else. The reviews are honest and fair, the content educational about both product and skincare in general, a noticeable absence of paid posts, there are clear disclaimers on everything, affiliate links are marked appropriately and individually, many even go so far as to provide spreadsheets that are updated daily so you can see exactly what they're using, how long, in combination with which other products, etc. A few of those bloggers (mostly US based) recently released this podcast where they discuss exactly these issues of transparency, affiliation, consultancy, sponsorship, press samples, etc. and how they deal with it or refuse to do it altogether. It was very enlightening, though admittedly their field is so niche that there simply isn't money to be made on a professional level so I assume the temptation to exchange trust for cash is less incentivising in that context.

SH has replied to someone to say someone else told her the accusation about the cancer charity on a random Facebook. This was in reply to someone who appears to be linked to the charity.

Botemp I agree about the Western Asian Beauty community. I discovered it by accident about a year ago and have learned so much about skincare and ingredients from them. 50 Shades of Snail is one of the more professional AB bloggers, and see her disclosure! Hope she will be able to handle the growth of her blog, she seems like a lovely person.

FrustratedFrugal I agree, 50 Shades of Snail seems very upfront and has a great sense of humour, though I've only been following for about a week now but it's looking very promising. The reddit is a little busy but great as a resource and starting point. I feared AB would be unnecessarily expanding my routine but found with the exception of one or two extras (which aren't necessary) like essence/lotion and sheet masks it really isn't all that different from what I am doing now and I've always been a fan of Japanese skincare.

I've been following these threads with interest - and I'll declare mine: I'm a freelance features journalist who often writes about beauty, for a number of newspapers and publications.

I might be fortunate, but I've never been told to write favourably about a brand, or been told that I have to include a product in a feature.
In fact I'm pretty sure I've been blacklisted by one of the major beauty corporations for being critical of one of their brands.
But that's OK by me, because I'm paid by the publications I write for, and indirectly by my readers, and so as far as I'm concerned, that's why my allegiance lies with readers rather than beauty brands.

That's also the reason, I'm not a blogger. I'd love to be, I'd love to have my own space to write honestly about the stuff I think is a rip off, about the pseudoscience that undermines the really exciting science that happens in the beauty industry, and of course about the things I think are genuinely brilliant, but I can't afford to.
I have to make a living from my writing. Yes I get sent samples of products, but I can't pay my mortgage, or my gas bill with samples. If I blogged, I'd have to take advertising, or sponsored posts to finance the blog - and pay my mortgage.

I don't think you can do that and be honest in the way you're suggesting (and I agree) bloggers should be - ie. giving negative reviews, calling out brands when they overclaim and under-deliver, pulling them up when their science doesn't add up etc.
I'm obviously not saying that every blogger is on the payroll over the beauty brands - overtly or otherwise - but I do think this is part of a broader issue about how objective a report you get when you're not paying for something - because if you're not, somebody else is, and I don't understand how that can not influence the content.

But maybe I would say that because I'd like people to carry on buying newspapers!

I am genuinely interested to know whether anyone thinks that there's a way to fund blogging so that it can be utterly independent (that doesn't involve being a woman of independent means.)

Apologies for the long post, hope it makes some sort of sense...

Maybe it can't be done. But if it can't then what exactly is the point of bloggers?

I managed quite happily without them in my life for 50-odd years and I can do so again.

I will check out British Beauty Blogger, London Beauty Queen and The frugality. Apologies if there are any I've missed. Thanks all.

Personally I see no future in the ads model as it exist today in a larger context, Apple allowing adblocker programs into the iTunes store is a clear turning point. I think the only way for a blog to pay for its upkeep and turn a profit without ads/brand influences featuresjourno would be through a scheme like patreon which is in essence a subscription service much like a newspaper except the relationship between content creator and reader is closer/more personal.

If there are clear benefits to be had with an USP that differentiates the content I do believe it is possible, whether it's sustainable is another question altogether since the notion that blogs will continue to be influential is uncertain. Newsletters and podcasts are suddenly becoming far more influential again because with the rise of mobile device use 'desktop' time (where blogs used to reign) is becoming limited and there is suddenly a favour again for condensed content that can be read/listened to while on the go, same can be said for apps. I don't think most people have an issue with advertising on blogs but more so with native advertising, if we're guessing too often whether it's an ad or not it's only natural we become suspicious.

I would listen to arguments for a paid subscription service.

However I also think it is up to bloggers to put their house in order, not for me to think up a way of keeping them in business. They are not the 5th emergency service and the world would carry on without them.

On a different note, I have just cleansed and exfoliated, as I always do, with almond oil and a warm, wet flannel. I am confident my face will still be there in the morning. These cells - they're dead. They're about to drop off anyway, right?

It was because of Caroline banging on about ingredients that led to me researching (Googling) the benefits of certain ingredients and of the right percentage to be beneficial.
I could never really find any products where the manufacturer disclosed the percentage of their ingredients, so I started to make my own.
It was a game changer.
When you know your ingredients then you know that much of the stuff they flog on these blogs is just snake oil.
I don't know how Caroline can use the Emma Hardie balm, full essential oils while using Retin A as it irritated the hell out of my skin.
She must have the hide of a Rhino

I do trust Laura at buynowbloglater as her blog is just a hobby as was mentioned on the last thread. She also explains why she stopped doing youtube.