Influencing the Influencers - Disclosure in Social Media (Vol 3)

[FrustratedFrugal]

Continuing the threads that discuss blogging and Instagram

Vol 2

Vol 1

[JaneBBB1]

Cleopatra: No.. all brands have products that are better than others so it would be an unreasonable expectation from them that I would like everything. I've clearly said that the cream didn't suit me but the serum did. The brand has never asked for positive reviews, despite a sponsored post, and I doubt very much that they ever would. They know exactly my style of blogging so not liking some of their products wouldn't come as a huge surprise.

[maggiesnells]

It's really sad when a blogger you love turns to the "other side" but I think we have to accept blogging isn't a pasttime anymore and people need to make a living...

I've followed bloggers like Alex and Anna for a long time, on the fashion side they do do sponsored stuff but they both are good for beauty as both talk about being new to beauty and I've bought very good products off the back of their recommendations.

Hope that helps - really interesting feed.

[MrsTubbs]

Jessie,

If, by one or two” industry insiders”, you mean me you have completely misunderstood my posts. I happily linked to my blog – which includes some information to prove I am who I say I am. I also tried my best to limit my comments to my personal experience of blogging without directly commenting on anyone else.

As a reader, my perceptions are slightly different. As blog reader, I don’t care if you’ve montised and are a pro-blogger. But I dislike the lack of clarity about how that money is made, how that may influence content and how I’m being sold too. I want sponsored content, samples and ads etc clearly flagged.

Essentially, show not tell. Take a step back and think about how things look to a reader. Do the things on the blog show people you are all you claim to be and inspire trust? As I thought mine didn’t, I changed them. And, remember the devil is in the detail. If you’re asked where something is from, a simple, “It was a gift from the brand, I’m very lucky. Thanks for asking, I’ll add that to the post now” inspires trust and reassures in a way that defensiveness, with supporting eye rolls from one of your blogging mates doesn’t.

[botemp]

JessiePeggy as Jane pointed out under point nine in her post, BBB was declared, with a mere glance, as being full of undeclared posts. The thing is, if you've been a follower of Jane and know her position on these matters, you can pretty easily disregard that assessment, I'm sure others will have simply taken that as fact. The blogging community is defensive as a whole so there is an air of 'where there's smoke there's fire' about it all.

Let me disclaim this first so that it doesn't get misinterpreted, I don't consider Caroline's silence (on her primary platform ie the blog) or her altered 'About Me' page an admission of guilt. Nor do I think this thread prompted her to make those changes re: sponsorship, at most it merely expedited her decision to clarify that. I completely understand that she's not responding directly here and respect that she's not calling upon the might of her following to police what is being discussed here. What it does confirm for me and what I believe initiated the OP on the first thread and is legible in the altered 'About Me' page is that over the past year her blog changed somewhat by venturing into declared sponsorship territory and possibly the introduction of affiliate links. After a year of trying it (the sponsorship) she indicates that the interference wasn't something she wanted to deal with. As a fellow control freak this makes all the sense in the world to me but the sum of that year for me (and not so much the previous threads) have altered my relationship with regard to the trust I place in her recommendations. Not so much that she did sponsored work, but the lack of acknowledgement of these upcoming changes or an explanation to the motivation behind them. She used to be the one that solely marched to the beat of her own drum and as a result she's held to a (possibly unachievable) high standard. Perhaps she had clarified something somewhere at some point but not noticeable enough to be picked up. I'll follow her blog from afar to see how it evolves from this point on but I don't think the value I used to place it in will ever be the same as it was in earlier days.

I have no issue with declared sponsored posts, affiliate links, collaborations, consultancy, etc. to generate revenue, the more transparent the better. My issue is that as a reader I'm having to constantly guess as to whether something is paid for or not especially with the knowledge that disclosure is only required when there has been creative input by the brand. Though considered perfectly legal by the ASA to me it feels like a loophole that purposefully gets exploited in the benefit of the brand and as a disservice to both the blogger and the reader. I can see why, as a PR you're expected to deliver a certain performance to a client if you want to retain their business and you're far more likely to deliver that when contracts, and therefore, money are involved. Thus guaranteeing that there will be exposure with proven stats vs. sending out a mass amount of product and hoping it will stand out among the rest. It also makes perfect sense that a brand will not want it to be presented as advertising because that's exactly how we will view it and therefore disregard it. Bloggers who aren't in the luxury position to be picky can only write what is desired by the brand, there isn't even a need for content input, creative or otherwise, if the blogger wants any future earnings. In the end the only one benefitting from this construct are the brands and that is a saddening conclusion to draw.

[Expellibramus]

I guess, comments on this thread can be taken as reader / customer feedback, or not. At the moment there are some constructive responses and some defensive ones.

I get that, but as a reader I don't really care, understanding it isn't going to keep me reading and clicking and buying, I'll just move on. I know I'm just one person, and that's fine, but defensiveness and people that may have overstepped the mark on these threads, aside, customer feedback is useful. Businesses pay for it! 'There's no smoke without fire' applies on the customer side too, meaning, if you tar everyone on these threads with the same brush then you're discounting a lot of disillusioned readers about to move on.

These threads didn't start the disillusionment, they are a symptom of it.

[CleopatraCominAtcha]

Thanks Jane, that makes sense.

[Floisme]

I agree Expell. Businesses go to a lot of trouble to get customer feedback and here it is in truckloads.

To the smarter ones who may be listening: I don't know the industry or who's to be trusted and who isn't. I'm also pretty pissed off so now my default position is to distrust everyone.

If you want to change that, you could start by putting some more distance between yourselves and the brands you feature. As I've already said, a good way of doing that would be to tell me when you don't like a product, not just when you do.

I also think it's time to take on the bloggers you know are taking the piss. With hindsight, I can see that Hughes might have been trying to start something on Instagram and I'm sorry if it blew up in her face. But all these veiled hints won't cut it. I'm not an insider and I don't follow bloggers any more so I don't know who you mean. You need to spell it out.

[Expellibramus]

Also, I don't have an issue with affiliate links, I'm happy for a blogger to pick up that commission if I've found something interesting via them, but I have wondered if some brands feature more than others as they pay more from affiliates, or am I way off?

[botemp]

Agree that this is a symptom, not a cause Expell.

I think with the affiliate links you also have to take into account that bloggers are not necessarily always paid by brands but by the online stores we end up spending our money with too. Pushing a certain brand (especially the ones they carry exclusively) may help solve the issue of certain stock not shifting, or add revenue in a traditionally slow time, etc.

[Expellibramus]

Thanks Bo, I had wondered that as I notice some bloggers seem to favour specific stores even if there's a better deal on elsewhere from a consumer perspective.

[MrsCampbellBlack]

I think you are right Expell - zara don't pay on affiliate links (or they didn't used to) hence lots of fashion bloggers never link to them.

[FrustratedFrugal]

Interesting discussion. I agree that this thread is about customer/reader feedback.
And many of our questions would be deleted or ridiculed if we posted them on blogs or Instagram.

Someone compared bloggers to wine critics. Here's a headline for you -
Wine-tasting: it's junk science

I'd love to give a few beauty bloggers some Astral in an unmarked jar and in a La Mer jar and conduct some tests. Or, better yet, pick a brand they have worked with and use their packaging. And mask the scent with lots of lovely essential oils

The early days of beauty blogging were exhilarating - beauty was democratic and you could get people's actual views: that's when I became hooked and started following lots of blogs.

But right now so much of what is offered on social media is thinly veiled marketing messages. And how can you have an independent opinion if your income depends on brands? What you can still do is list new releases and cash in on people's fear of missing out. But content created using that template is not much more interesting than telemarketers' messages or the junk mail in my inbox.

[FrustratedFrugal]

You can probably use Zara as a litmus test - if you favorite fashion blogger links to Zara, the content isn't entirely Rstyle driven.

We've posted this link before, but the affiliate system has its downsides.

And that subtle skewing of content towards what can be monetized is making fashion and beauty blogs a lot blander than they used to be.

[diggerdigsdogs]

Great thread and to the bloggers who have come to give their thoughts.

I think the wine critic in a paper is a poor analogy unless comparing say SH guardian column. And in those columns there really isn't the space to discuss poor products IMO. I'd rather hear what works. The few wine blogs I've ideally googled where either puff pieces by the local region (and therefore all wine = brilliant) or quite balanced between lots of good and some "meh, X is better."

And on the note of products being ignored if not liked I think the Sunday Riley Blue moon is a good example of this not being the case. Almost universally loved by bloggers but most of MN thought it was moonshine and bullshit.

For total clarity I thought it was a Rubbish until I tried it under good genes and was then converted. But the blogger love just did not equal the consumer dislike.

[diggerdigsdogs]

sorry for spelling and grammar errors. I'm ignoring playing with the baby.

[Floisme]

I'm particularly suspicious when there's universal love for the same product. Everyone's skin is different so you would expect dissenting opinions.

Even with a small space you could alternate good and bad reviews. I'm sure Trinny and Susannah used to do that back in the day when they just had a column in the Telegraph (before the BBC deals). It's one reason why I still retain a soft spot for them.

[botemp]

I think we're deluding ourselves a bit to accept that 'reviews' are reviews. SH's column is a different beast but comparing blog reviews to film reviews is the wrong parallel. It's more something like the Graham Norton show where high earning A-list stars appear for free to be gushed over (all questions pre-approved by their handler) and told their movie is wonderful and we all must see it even if it's shite because otherwise no other A-list star would ever appear on their show again and therefore no one would watch it, so Graham's certainly not going to point out that their blue hair isn't looking all that natural. What I want is someone to take beauty products to task like journalists do politicians since they both promise a lot and rarely deliver...

[Floisme]

You see I don't watch Graham Norton either. I think gushing over anyone is boring, no matter who's doing it. But I do read/listen to Mark Kermode - and they still manage to get A-listers on their show.

[Cizzbot]

Digger,
I disagree regards the blue oil by SR.
CH pans it for wrongly claiming to be natural and organic. Containing 7 highly irritating and inexpensive essential oils. ( there by questioning the price tag )
Pointing out that as your skin will be sensitised by the Retinol in it already is that really a good idea.
Using green and blue dye for the colouring.

Paula B also and her site gives its less than 2 *
On SH ITB with BBB when Jane says she has started using this oil but dislikes the blue SH says that they can speak about that off camera.

You say it works well under the Good Genes 😳😳😳So essentially a £85 serum work better if you put another £85 serum on top by the same company!

I've yet to read a beauty blogger who doesn't go to a dermatologist for prescription vitamin A. And I think it's an important point. As no lotion or potion in the beauty industry will come close to matching a prescription.

So to me the SR blue night oil was as close as a beauty blogger will go to not endorsing a product without loosing face ( income )

[Cizzbot]

Frustrated,
Enjoyed reading from the link you included in your last post. Thank you.
Now I will just google endorsements to avoid the cookies and underhand/ hidden payments to bloggers.
If someone buys a $3000 hand bag from a bloggers affiliated link this can earn said blogger $300!! OMG😨 I didn't know that.
No wonder the only 20 something's that can buy houses are lifestyle bloggers. And my post graduate son owes £40,000.
I remain more incensed by these work shy inexperienced con artists who are nearing 30 yet acting like they're 12 and aiming for 10-14 year olds. What a messed up world we live in.

[theclick]

What I can't stand about sali Hughes Atm is her obsession with the britpop era. Everyone she bloody interviews is somehow connected to that whole 90s thing. Would be good to have some diversity.

[MsBojangles]

^ That whole 90s nostalgia schtick really grates. She was a teenage runaway who built a career on the kindness of strangers as far as I can tell, no wonder she waxes lyrical, she wouldn't have stood a chance in today's world.

[FrustratedFrugal]

Cizzbot to be fair many bloggers earn peanuts from affiliate links. It's not the money but the sneakiness that I resent - even knowing how long the cookies are good for is usually unclear. I purged cookies from my iPad and got rid of lots of targeted ads as well. Declared affiliate links are okay, but I am a bit sad that many places on the internet have become a gigantic mall.

Comparing beauty bloggers to wine critics was not my idea
And there is a crucial difference: even bad plonk will get you drunk - but there is no guarantee that skincare will work at all.

botemp I like your Graham Norton analogy - some people enjoy the schmoozing and gushing. I don't

[AdventuresOfADentist]

To be fair to graham norton, I don't watch the programme for his in-depth analysis of the latest blockbuster, I watch for the occasionally funny anecdotes/moments

[botemp]

Well I wasn't trying to be mean to poor Graham Norton temporarily fears the oncoming twitter tirade . But basically we all know what to expect what that show is and who is really directing the narrative and that it's all in the name of entertainment value, it's not pretending to be something it's not. Bloggers seem to exploit their aura of independent voices because that's where they started but it clearly no longer applies.

I think the $300 commission on a $3000 bag is a little exaggerated, I remember being part of a cash back program where you shared the affiliate link commision and the percentages really weren't all that high and got capped the more you spent. I stopped using it because it really didn't save me that much considering the hassle, it was only interesting for booking holidays, flights, etc. since those paid out the most commision on a relatively high amount.

For anyone who has principal issues with affiliate links there is a free add-on for the Firefox browser (also free to install) called Clean Links that automatically strips the affiliate information and tracking tokens from a nested link and removes all affiliate information.