How do you give yourself permission to look good?

[BabCNesbitt]

This isn't for the women who've always invested in their appearance and for whom taking care of their looks is as automatic as looking after their health - who've never questioned whether it's OK to spend money on clothes, skincare, etc.

It's for women like me who perhaps grew up with mothers who thought make-up was for vain women who clearly didn't put enough food on the table for their kids.

Or maybe you grew up with a version of feminism that disdained make-up, but even though you don't necessarily hold to that you still feel a bit guilty about being interested in it.

Or you've just internalised the idea that spending money on yourself - on decent clothes that will last, on skincare that isn't 2.99 from Superdrug, on makeup from department stores rather than the supermarket - is inappropriate now you're a mum.

How do you get over that guilt? If you have, how did you do it - what did you tell yourself? And if you haven't, why not?

(And actually, if you've never felt any guilt about it, why do you think that is?)

S&B might occasionally point and laugh at things online (especially monstrosities from M&S) but I have never seen people being mean to real MNers.

They might say that a particular item is hideous, but they will invariably offer alternatives that might work for the person asking for help. I think there have been lots of fantastic S&B threads, where people come in hating themselves and not knowing what they want, and end up feeling a bit better - and if spending a bit of money on a new frock makes somebody feel better about themselves, then it is money well spent, and if S&B can help in that, then that is A Good Thing.

I also think that there are lots of people on S&B who are prepared to help other posters find exactly what that person wants, rather than trying to push everybody into a certain look. Certainly, some of the things I've asked for help finding in the past are not what every man and his dog would want to wear.

I agree with S&B being very helpful most of the time. I lurk on there a lot. However, I do find some of those "what is mumsy/frumpy?" threads quite disheartening. When your confidence is low anyway and then you find out that what you thought looked ok is in fact deemed mumsy, it can be very disheartening.
I do agree though that those threads are very general and I have never seen one aimed at anyone in particular.

I know what you mean yournotfat but to be fair I think the 'oh god, this is so mumsy' threads are often about trying to encourage people to avoid tht pitfall.
you are right - its not the best way to go about it. But often lak of confidence pushes us into choices that are all about being more invisible . And style and beauty is where you come before you head out iyswim.

It's Like when I took my mum out a few weeks ago. She kept picking up safe tent like things because, post an op on her stomach she felt self conscious.
Eventually I nagged encouraged her into sometime more empire line and she looked great.

I'm sorry that there has been some meanness towards posters on some of the threads. MNVogue is not mean and we enjoy general fashion/style chat. We will say honestly whether we like an item but it is pretty much that plus plenty of suggestions of how to 'style' an item irrespective of what our personal opinion is of it. There are enough Fashion wankers out there in fashion-land acting like a group of school bullies but thankfully none on the MNVogue thread. And it has kept going for 16 threads now. Anyway advert over

And we all have a style whatever it may be. I enjoy playing clothing detective, helping posters find what they want.

As for 'Mumsy' being a derogatory term? Well that just sums up how little value is placed upon the role doesn't it that it should be so awful to look like 'one'? That saddens me greatly.

I used to be so adventurous in my clothing but people sneering at me and calling me fat among other things has destroyed what little confidence I had. I dress to hide now even though I've got a cracking pair of norks and a tiny waist just begging to be shown off. I just can't do it anymore, I'd be mortified if people were looking at me now, I'd just think they were laughing at me

Oh One..... . Can I suggest the wonders of properly fitted underwear? Sexy black fitted underwear that doesn't clutch ta you like a drowning man but holds and contours will do wonders for that hourglass shape of yours. And pencil skirts, A lines worn with fitted sweaters/cardigans with a deep welt and waist rib so they fall below your waist and disguise any soft tummy areas you feel conscious of are your friend. So are fit and flare dresses (but not in jersey-too clingy). I'll take this over to MNVogue if you like?

And I have a desire to punch anybody who has laughed at you and I am a pretty gentle person.

Onelittlelady that is so sad. It's easy to say just ignore what other people think, but very hard to actually do it.
It is awful that 'mumsy' is such a derogatory term. What's the matter with looking like a mum? Surely a person can look fantastic even if they're dressed to the nines in the most up to date stylish clothes. One of the most gorgeous women I know wears linen trousers (OMG NO!) and loose voluminous tops. She is about a size 20 and has men falling at her feet.

Should say NOT dressed to the nines.
I really should proof read before posting.

OneLittleLady - whilst knowing that one dress will not solve all ills, if one dress would make you feel a bit better, I'd totally recommend going and trying a Westwood jersey dress on. It will emphasise your, 'cracking norks and tiny waist' whilst skimming over the rest!

I actually don't think mumsy has anything to do with being a mum, anymore than 'yummymummy' does.

It's just a shorthand for clothes that make women look older than they are.

I hate mumsy, I hate yummymummy.
My mum says 'do you think this all looks a bit WI' to mean that sort of thing. It always makes me laugh , not least because she was in the WI for decades.

I wish a load of us could go shopping together and try and boost our confidence a bit.

Love, 'A bit WI.' Dp refers to, 'A bit Harrogate lady flower arranging' if he thinks I'm straying over into olds-ville too much.

Goth - let's do it! I'm up for a Birmingham shopping spree at a moment's notice.

remus I've been eyeing up Westwood dresses for the longest time. I shall have one eventually, even if it's just to wear in the house! Sounds a bit egotistical saying I have 'cracking norks and tiny waist' but I don't feel it, its simply fact though I cover them up, even DP is lucky if he gets a glimpse of them

I've had this issue with feeling guilty. We're not rolling in it, but I do like to reward myself with treats that are usually clothes, makeup and those kinds of things.

What a great thread. I haven't fully given myself permission but I am trying, so here are my tips:

look at other women, especially women who have "not-perfect" bodies in the way that you think yours is not (if you do) and love them. Actively think positively about them. all of them.

when you see a woman who is really stylish despite being "not-perfect" think about how you would rather look like her than like someone who didn't bother. this is to get out of the guilt thing of "trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" - just think, well she made the effort and looks fab and I love her for it, I can love me too.

I have daughters and want them to be confident. I wore jeans every single day when on mat leave with dd2 and dd1 would tug at dresses in my wardrobe and say "wear this one on today mummy!" and I would actively not tell her why: no I can't I am too fat, I do not have the right shoes, I don't have time to do my hair or makeup to go with a nice dress, I haven't shaved my legs.... I decided not to share with her the tyranny of a million ways of not measuring up so I am trying to stick by that decision so that the girls can see themselves in me as people who are worth looking after

I have two Vivienne Westwood dresses. Totally impossible to feel invisible or frumpy

I got this for my mum. She was looking at black sacks, tried this on and she looked astonishing
Watching her bounce out of the changing room was utter joy

I only have one but it is sublime (and I do have two skirts, too!). :)

Must admit that I am very guilty of pretty much always wearing black though. I'm size 10-12 and do like black, and think it suits me, but one of my (male) friends always says that I look better in colours.

No, no. If black suits you it's fine!

My mother was going for black as camouflage - she suits strong colours.

at Vivienne Westwood dresses.

I have one VW jacket, much marked down from Bicester village, and I bloody love it.

I remember dragging my mum to buy her a proper bra about five years ago, because she was convinced she was a 42C and was getting upset at how 'fat' she was. I couldn't make her buy a cup size bigger than DD because she simply wouldn't believe it, but she still looks a damn sight better in a 38DD with the straps properly done up.

I do think buying stuff that fits is a bit part of it. When I was really depressed I was buying clothing two sizes too big and floppy because I just wanted to be in a grey tent.

LARDY, I really identify with buying clothes two sizes too big. I am a size 16/18 on top, but my current favourite wardrobe item is a cotton size 22 shirt from a charity shop. I bloody love it. It hides all my lumps and bumps and makes people think I look like Elle McPherson under my tent. Not.
I hate tight clothes and live in perpetual dread of them shrinking in the tumble dryer. If anything feels tight I dissolve into a puddle of self loathing at the huge amount of weight I must have put on in the two days since I last wore said item. Think I need help.

I don't think being fat actually makes that much difference, it is more about how you feel about yourself. I have lost 5 stone over the past year and gone from a size 20 o a size 10/12, but I still look in the mirror and don't like what I see.

However, partially inspired by this thread, I booked a special deal that they were running at my local beauty salon - Express Facial, Eyebrow Shape and File & Polish Hands & Feet for £25. I now feel unusually good about myself. I'm thinking of booking it every month as a little pick me up if I can manage not to feel too guilty.

LARDY is an apt name for this thread.

But yes, I agree with jemima, I don't think for me it was about the weight I was - just to do with feeling as if I wanted to hide. Of course sometimes you want something skimming and pretty, but that's different.

Plus over-tight clothing is uncomfortable. In fact I never wear trousers because they never fit comfortably on my waist.

Oops. Sorry just seen you're not LARDY, iyswim.