How do you give yourself permission to look good?

[BabCNesbitt]

This isn't for the women who've always invested in their appearance and for whom taking care of their looks is as automatic as looking after their health - who've never questioned whether it's OK to spend money on clothes, skincare, etc.

It's for women like me who perhaps grew up with mothers who thought make-up was for vain women who clearly didn't put enough food on the table for their kids.

Or maybe you grew up with a version of feminism that disdained make-up, but even though you don't necessarily hold to that you still feel a bit guilty about being interested in it.

Or you've just internalised the idea that spending money on yourself - on decent clothes that will last, on skincare that isn't 2.99 from Superdrug, on makeup from department stores rather than the supermarket - is inappropriate now you're a mum.

How do you get over that guilt? If you have, how did you do it - what did you tell yourself? And if you haven't, why not?

(And actually, if you've never felt any guilt about it, why do you think that is?)

Something strange is happening to the links. Hovering I can see they should take me to Phase Eight but they just go to this thread. Tech, help us!

Oh yes - how strange. Mine went to N too. Spooky.

I didn't mean to offend anybody by suggesting that it is facile to post links to items of clothing for Mum. What I really meant to say was that in light of the thread's conversation in general, I realised that simply encouraging somebody to keep buying until they find what they need was not an answer (Not that anybody here had even suggested that.) In my defence, I have been on a ferry all night returning from holiday and I'm not firing on all cylinders.

Apologies to anybody I may have offended or upset.

Mum I know exactly what you mean by the numbness, this is why medication was only an initial relief for me. Incidentally, I don't think being on the pill for years did me any favours either - I definitely noticed some numbness lift when I came off it.

Mignonette that is a lovely post. Although I do have some faith (as an archaeology student!) in the power of Stuff. Clothes and beauty products can't change your life or solve your problems, but in moderation I think they can be very helpful little crutches in getting you out of a sadness rut. Somebody mentioned just doing their nails and hair while they are a SAHM - these small things are important, they give you a routine and an affirmation that spending time on yourself is worthwhile. Small things like that are more achievable than a whole new look, perhaps.

Snowlie, like with other aspects I know exercise is good for me, I know I need to lose weight, I know I will spend more days feeling like this unless I do something about it. But I genuinely feel well and truly stuck, with no idea why or how to move forward.

I really just don't have the oomph or whatever it is that I should have to be more into myself, iykwim.

I sometimes wonder if I always tried to be what others have wanted me to be, if that makes sense. So, a good daughter, a good wife and daughter in law to the most awful people in my opinion , etc etc etc. everyone had so many expectations that maybe I didn't really develop as an individual I think. And now I have no sense of who I am or my identity or what I like or don't like. I want to do things but don't know what and get stuck in the rut again. It's been like this for so long, I mostly think, what's the point, which is very defeatist.

I'm waiting for some CBT sessions and am hoping they might help. I kind of want to get over myself and just get on and bloody enjoy my life and my kids and my time here.

I'm waffling again. Sorry, and thanks again.
Xxx

Mum I think it might help if you viewed exercise as a way of looking after your body and your mind rather than a vehicle for weight loss. I started exercising 5 years ago, when I was 37, after years of being the biggest sloth ever....wanting to be around for my dcs was part of my motivation and so much more inspiring than just weight loss. I started off small but fat a while exercise becomes part of who you are and you start to crave it.

Min excellent post. But clothes do make us feel better, a bit like smiling makes us feel better even when we are sad.

Mum You are NOT waffling. You write in a very clear manner and this will stand you in good stead re therapy. Would you feel able to keep a journal, a way of writing this down? In fact use it to write down whatever comes into your head, sketch, scrapbook, keep a visual mood board. It may help you navigate your way towards you. Go buy a journal/scrapbook that you find aesthetically pleasing, that feels lovely to hold and write in and express yourself within it. You do write very well in fact. I am an RNMH and this is something I set great store by. A journal can be that room of her own that every woman needs.

Yes I agree clothes/make up and such purchases are an indicator of self value and I didn't mean what I wrote to sound the way it did.

Mignonette, thank you for your lovely post. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, that I think I know what's wrong, but I just want to get over it.
And as I was writing my first long post, I think it clicked that the reason I don't like stuff I order or see when I try them on is because I don't really want to be me. I am not thinking of ending it all and like I said before I don't really feel sad, it's just the way it is.

I feel like I'm trapped in a glass cube. I can see everything that is going on around me, but I can't be a part of it. I truly feel just stuck.

And the two senses I have are numbness and anger mostly at myself.

Thankyou again for your kind words. Xxx

Mignonette, you didn't sound anything other than kind. The journal sounds like a good idea. Maybe I'll get something and start on that. I am terrible though. I still have a lovely Filofax that I never used as I didn't want to spoil it.
Thank you for the offer of a pm too. I might take you up on it.

Snowlie, thanks again. I did go through a phase of really getting into excercising and feeling as good about myself as i ever have. I managed to do 6 months and then hurt the bottom of my foot, which put a stop to it.

Fr some reason, I find when things like that happen, that it's my fault or having enjoyed it, if that makes sense. I was watching that extreme OCD camp thing the other night and it was so inciteful. I was never as extreme as they were but I grew up doing rituals because if I didn't something really bad would happen to my family. We lived in an extended family and every night I would creep around the house and check that my grandparents, mum, dad, gran and two sisters were all breathing. I'd watch from the shadows for 3 chest rises each and only then would I let myself sleep.

When things go wrong, ESP things where I've had fun, I've always felt responsible and then awful for having had fun. Then disappointment would set in and I feel like with all the disappointments I think what's the point.

I think the reason I feel angry is that I am an older mum. I'll be 45 this years and my eldest will be 6 and my youngest 4, and I do want to be around or them. But even they are not enough to get me going.

I'm making this thread all about me now. I should go over and post on mental health. Thanks stylers and beautiers for listening and for the kindness you have shown.

Bab, sorry for derailing our thread.

Your thread. Sorry for ALL the typos.

mum you have a case of the chronic apologies I have this too. And yes, I think it is very much about fulfilling roles and being a good little this that and the other. I almost seem to be apologising for existing sometimes.

Yay, it's not just me then

I totally do that! I even apologise if someone walks into me.

Mum39, I understand how you feel. I think I look horrible - unfeminine, too tall and too fat - so think people will laugh at me even more if I dare be so silly as to try to make myself look better. From time to time I buy myself stuff but rarely wear it because I don't look nice. People will look down on me even more if I try too hard because I'll look ridiculous. This applies even more to my horribly thin mousy hair and make-up.

Obviously, in my better moments I know this is rubbish. Sadly, I haven't worked myself up to many better moments yet, but I'm getting there. My mum equated vanity with a lack of brain and being able was what she wanted first for me - was always trying to sign me up to able kid classes. Equally I was not allowed to listen to pop music as that was for thick and common people. I therefore have a whole generation's worth of experience missing. However, I can have tea with a bishop and dress and behave in the manner she'd find appropriate......

I know I should be way over this because I'm a grown-up, but that childhood stuff sticks like superglue.

I have PMed you Mum

One thing that doesn't help is the idea that anyone who accepts the fact they are aesthetically pleasing is shallow and big headed.

I know I'm quite pretty in a aort of cute way. I'm not allowed to admit it though!

My mum is very lovely looking but is miserable and thinks she is overweight and ugly. No matter how much I try I can't get her to believe in herself. She wears clothes to hide herself in and won't do anything to make herself feel good about herself.

This thread is great and sad in equal measure.
It is shocking how often we look around and imagine others to be leading perfect effortless lives and then compare ourselves negatively to that.

When we look at others we never judge so harshly yet we do it to ourselves.
This living life from inside a box looking out rings true.

I had a sort of epiphany a few years ago and it's an odd way around so I hope I don't screw up.
I was sitting on a beach in Barbados, a proper 5 * exclusive place. I was sitting there fretting about the size of my arse, looking enviously at the glamorous people all around who seemed like they belonged there while I didn't.

Then I really looked. Plenty of women hissing at their children, couples barely talking to each other, women with great figures but clearly covering up - feeling self conscious about an imagined defect. Yet massive beer gutted blokes were striding down the beach, kids as yet unbothered by how they look were having a blast.
I stood up and asked my dd if she wanted to go find some crabs. We walked, chatted , I even ran and ha a blast. I realised the only thing curtailing the holiday I should be having and making it an anxiety bound stress fest was my worrying about looking a certain way. The truth was not one other person on that beach gave a shit what I looked like

I am not totally uninhibited now. But itry to remember that I should be living my life according to how it feels, what I want, the things I want to do with the people I love.
I lived at least a decade living according to what I thought it looked like to any passing tosser looking in. What a fucking waste.

What Pagwatch said. I know it's different because he's a boy, but my ds (18) sometimes gets stressed because he says people are staring at him. He thinks it's because he's mixed race, or he has one shoulder about 1 inch lower than the other.

I tell him either:

a) they aren't really looking at him, they're just looking around them and happen to glance at him but not really looking iykwim

b) if they are looking it's because he's drop dead gorgeous

So it's not just us middle aged women who have hangups about people looking at them/not looking at them.

This is an amazing thread.
My mum hardly ever wore make up and gets most of her clothes in charity shops. She lives in a posh town so these may be last seasons Hobbs or Jaeger but buying something new for herself is A big deal.

Consquently I struggle with make up and buying quality at full price. Like a pp I have 2 energetic boys so when I'm out with them clothes have to be practical over stylish. But I need to look smart for work and apart from a black Hobbs suit in the sale in January all my suits are 5+ years old. Am thinking I need to book a personal shopper at H of Fraser as have been looking for months without finding anything other than the odd blouse. But the idea of PLANNING to spend that much on myself seems wrong.

I think this thread is so interesting. It's sad and uplifting in equal measure.
I think there are so many reasons for my reluctance to dress up nicely when I'm overweight.
To me, all my fat lumps and rolls are a very visible sign of my failure. Failure of what, I'm not sure. Failure to conform to the norm? I'm trying to turn my lumps into a positive: that lump is a result of a delicious weekend in Venice, that one a Xmas of yummy dark chocolate cherries etc. a life well lived and enjoyed. My body has given me three lovely sons, dealt with cancer etc.
A few years ago a counsellor asked me to talk about all my friends and people I love. Whilst I talked she scribbled away. At the end of the hour or so she showed me what she had written. She had written down all the reasons I loved and valued all those people. She challenged me to find where I had mentioned anything about slim, groomed, beautiful etc. Nothing. All I had talked about was them as people. So why do I put this ridiculous value on size etc in myself? My family and friends aren't a bit bothered and don't place any importance on that. It was quite eye opening.

My Mother went back to work in the sixties because my Fathers long pockets and short arms left her unable to buy things for herself and us children bar absolute essentials. She worked when an awful lot of women could not and as such we were provided with an alternative vision of what Mothers could achieve. I had a pretty awful childhood but she did work hard and she bought us nice things and encouraged us to enjoy fashion and beauty. She always used perfume-good perfume and to this day I am not dressed unless I have applied it.

I have tried to show my DD and StepDD's that make up is not a mask, a salve to poor self esteem or something to use because of perceived flaws but rather something fun and creative that can be used to express personality and fashion.

Certainly in MH one of the things I look for is a patient starting to care more about how they look-whether it be bathing, brushing hair, using make up as an indication of recovery or in the case of BiPolar, relapse if the colour schemes/choice of clothing and 'appropriateness' etc change. It is a reliable indicator of mood change. Although that L'Oreal ad is annoying, the 'I'm Worth it' message is an important one when women are under increasing pressure to be all things to everyone leaving their sense of self buried under a mountain of work and family life. Fashion and style can be part of that room of our own that every woman needs.

I have never lied about what things cost. I do buy clothing that some people might consider expensive but I work and my DH would never think to raise an eyebrow. However if I didn't work for money I wouldn't expect to have to justify the things I bought for myself although I realise that should I have a spending problem with no income then that'd be the wrong attitude.

I never buy on credit and use credit cards for travel/bookings etc. If I cannot afford it I do not buy it. Despite my love of fashion, I do not use hardly any make up, just eyeliner and lipstick mostly but I do buy nice perfumes.

I do not equate the natural look with not trying. The most stylish confident women seem to be those who develop their own look that essentially doesn't change too much from year to year whether that be jeans and T shirt or full on glamour. The French saying 'Bien dans sa peau' - feeling good in your own skin means so much more than what you put on it either clothing/make up. However fashion and beauty can help us move towards that.

Yournotfat - good way of thinking.

My take on the pressure to be thin is the idea that women should take up as little space as possible in the World- to the point of total denial of self. We wear shoes that reduce us to tottering along like a Fawn and clothes that bind, distort, shape and hide. High fashion is all about the denial of female contours in many respects. Not many designers are comfortable with abundant female flesh. Even the ones that say they are like D&G will still corset and truss female breasts, squeeze waistlines.....

Think of the beauty of a baby- their little rolls and bracelets. Think of how our babies squeeze and grasp our flesh when they feed and glory in the feel of their Mother. Then those little girls (especially girls) grow up and lose that connection with their natural self. Their body becomes something to be controlled and distorted or camouflaged. Sad, sad, sad. And boys are going the same way too.