am i letting down the sisterhood to want cosmetic surgery?

[AvaGardner]

I have decided, after breast-feeding two children, to have a breast augmentation operation. i consider myself a feminist, and am raising my daughters to consider themselves beautiful on the inside and out, whatever their shape. i do not want giant barbie boobs, but a b cup to make me feel a bit better about myself. i'm 39 and have two very tired and shrivelled aa cups which i would rather do something about than feel a bit sad every time i get out of the shower and see myself.

my sister and my mother think i'm having a mid-life crisis and that i'm letting down the sisterhood. all the discussion boards where i have sought advice or ideas seem to feature mainly very young girls having very big breasts inserted in order to fit an ideal.

i'd really welcome your thoughts. i am feeling very conflicted and sad about this. i would like to do this for myself, but i feel somehow like i'm letting the side down or doing something trivial and slightly seedy.

Ava - your OP indicates that it's your family's reaction that has made you think twice. Their negativity is probably fear of the danger you would be in from surgery. Or perhaps they are over-emphasising that you are great as you are because they should - that's their job as family. Perhaps a longer discussion with them would help more than all of these independent opinions?

wubblybubbly I do hope you are ok...my bf (also 41) is about to have a mastectomy & she has been told she'll be able to have a reconstruction in around 6mths time. She is distraught at the prospect of cancer, but I think, even more distressed that she'll lose her whole breast including nipple....hope everything works out for you.

I have been thinking about this today, ten saw this thread tonight!

OP of course it is your decision, but undoubtedly this is a feminist issue. Breasts are one of the things that define our sense of femininity, so if we are planning to make changes to them then this is something that will interest/concern feminists.

The thoughts I'd been having before I saw this thread were simply how sad it is that this has become such a normal thing to do that we seem to have forgotten how extreme it really is.

I have always had small breasts (A-B cup), as a teenager I swore I would have implants when I got older. Until one day I thought about myself as an old lady, thinking how sad and silly it would be that I had never worn a boob tube, or even a strapless top, because I was so self-conscious about my body. And also of how beautiful my young body would seem to my older self when I was reminiscing.

Tabouleh has already posted the link I was going to, but since noone has commented on it, I will post it again here

I had 2 children 15 months apart in my early 20s, both unplanned. I was devastated by the body I was left with. Discovering this website helped me a lot, to accept that I was just fine the way I was, more than fine in fact.

Please look at the website if you haven't already. Whatever decision you make, I think it's really important to accept the changes to our body, through pregnancy, and through age. Even if you have this surgery, there will come a point where your body changes. If you keep the 'perfect' youthful perky breasts, what about the rest of your body around them?

Can I just add something without sounding smug?
Your body does not have to change that much either due to pregnancy or age. I know that some women's breasts do etc, but at the same time I want to give a positive slant to this to answer some critics who seem to think that changes are inevitable.

I am 55 and weigh almost the same as I did at 22 , bar say 4lbs heavier,after 2 babies in my 30s. my breasts are the same, in fact slightly bigger, my waist is a bit thicker but otherwise i am still happy with my body.

i doubt I am unusual.

Redhappy: thank you for your thoughtful post, and i will look at the site.

You say breasts are one of the things that define our sense of femininity -- precisely. This is why I feel bereft without any. I am not an A-B cup, and I have lost count now of the number of times I have been gently rebuked by A cups on this thread (with my best interests at heart, so this is not a sulk.) I am an AA-AAA cup. 'Cup' in that context is a bit of a non-sequitur.

To everyone who has posted: thank you. I have examined your arguments and mine in minute detail! And now I'm off to let it all percolate.

Best wishes, take care all of you.

Over and out.

Ava

Thank you for the kind words Purple and Loving, it's appreciated

The reconstruction option isn't forced or even pushed. It has been offered and there is no time limit on taking it up. It's there for me when I'm ready.

Like you say Purple, it's a wonderful thing that reconstruction is now available on the NHS for those who want it. Until you've gone through this, I don't think it's easy to say exactly how you would feel. Although I don't mourn the loss of my breast as such, I do mourn the loss of myself. The reconstruction is part of regaining my sense of identity. That has been something I've held onto throughout treatment.

I wish your friend all the very best Loving. It's a hard trek but do-able. Reconstruction surgery is amazing these days, silicon is not the only option, it's not even the preferred option in many cases.

Yes you are right, I have fallen into that same trap...I was AA until I was 20, had my children early 20s, and I was AA again for a couple of years. Being a B cup is world of difference to AA, I wont deny that.

But I was AA when I found the website, and it did really help me come to terms with the shock I was feeling.

Anyway, I wish you well, and goodnight!

I don't think I could ever have plastic surgery, short of being maimed by a dog or a car crash. I do consider myself a feminist, and I think I'd be letting myself down, never mind the sisterhood, if I even thought of such a thing.

Did anyone see that programme a while ago with the teenager absorbed in her school studies and the glamour model mum? ("You spent an hour on your chemistry homework? Well that's an hour of your life you'll never get back.") here but no longer available to watch. It really does make you wonder why women do this to their bodies.

Ok, the feminist issues aside for a moment, and on a practical note, you said on page one that you are so flat that your bra rides up as there's nothing to keep it in place. That's because you're wearing the wrong back size. If you go up to a B or C cup, it will still ride up at the back. Try a tighter fitting bra - it will also make the pads or chicken fillets look more natural too.

But I know how you feel. I'm still crying my eyes out nearly every day over how pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding has ruined my body. I love DS but I seem to have sacrificed everything whilst DH remains unscathed.

I think it's a very feminist thing to do. What could be more empowering than saying "this is my body, I'll do whatever I want with it to make myself happy". I think any woman who tells another what she can or can't do with her own body is just as sexist as the people they claim to hate.

I guess my feelings on this matter are quite clear. :) If I hadn't had a caesarean and made the promise to myself "Never have surgery unless it's vitally important" due to how long something so common takes to recover from, I'd definitely consider fixing my body a little bit in a few years when I've figured out what's post-pregnancy and what's here to say.

(Haven't read the whole thread but will do my best later to catch up with it all - read page 1 and 8)

I had cosmetic surgery to correct a lazy eye 3 times as a child even though I was told quite clearly by the consultant that it was purely cosmetic and would not help my vision what so ever. I know these operations made me happier and definitely more confident so I decided I wanted them (with parents support). It wasn't about how people saw me it was about how I saw myself. I see this as a similar situation as getting your boobs done if it makes you unhappy.

I would say as a feminist getting cosmetic surgery to make you feel better about you is perfectly fine. I think over analysing it and saying "a real feminist wouldn't do this" actually goes against my understanding of what feminism is. To me it is about not being pressured into gender specific roles and stereotypes just because of social expectations. To not do it as a feminist is just swapping the set of expectations you live by which isn't an improvement, iyswim.

I consider myself not as a feminist but as myself an individual (I don't see why I should be put into a box) and do not give in to gender expectations unless I want to. I am pregnant because we wanted a child and I am happy with my body even though I am a size 14. I do not wear make up unless I want to (which is on rare occasions) and only ever dye my hair if I get bored of the colour - it's been a few years now. After the birth of my baby I expect I will want to lose my baby weight and will do so because it is what I want to do not to conform to expectations. I am a D cup and am happy with my breasts and I know I would be less confident if I was a lot smaller. Being a feminist doesn't mean you lose your right to feel feminine... or at least that was what I was told. Like I said, why the need to be categorised? In the words of Brian "We are all individuals".

I thought about having something done to my breasts a while back. I've also always been small, and perfectly happy with it, but when I stopped bf my dd my breasts swelled up and the skin elasticity was damaged forever. I don't look much different with clothes on, and I am with the father of my children with no wish to move on (and he likes my breasts, because they are 'so soft'). But when I look at my body I am slightly repulsed by my breasts. They just don't fit in with my body image of being me.

I really really think that this has very little to do with societal pressure, as I don't read womens magazines or watch TV, so am not bombarded with images of how women should be, and in any case I am not very body conscious - I don't wear make up, shave, dress up much, have my hair cut only when it gets fairly dreadful, never weigh myself or diet and once lived for two years without a mirror (when I do come across mirrors, I tend to smile at myself and move on quite happy).

I think that part of the issue is that there is nothing I can do about my breasts - if I tone my body my breasts actually shrink. However I didn't get around to doing anything about it, and so have got used to the sad breasts and now ignore them really. Still feel a bit ick when dh fondles them though, which isn't quite right.

The only thing I would say to the OP is really do your research, because your nice breasts are sadly gone for ever, and surgery might fill them out, but it probably won't change the skin tone (the crepe-ness of mine is what I really dislike). Also stop wearing bras! Much much more comfortable without them.

Do people really think that false boobs look nice ?

Forget the feminist angle, silicone implants look awful. You can see and feel the implant (don't let anyone tell you different) and there is no going back once you cut open that skin and scar it for ever.

I think natural boobs look better than implants, even if they are a bit pg-and-bf ravaged (like mine are).

I don't like my boobs, never have, but I don't like the look of implants either.

I've never seen them in RL (naked that is) and I have never felt any so I don't know

I ddi meet a woman once who had just had her breasts enlarged (but not dramatically to a B). She said she had always had small boobs and aftershe had her children she did not droop, she simply had flat breasts and she wasn't happy with it. I met her just after the OP (actually in hospital) and she was in agony . Obviously the skin has to be stretched a lot to cover the bigger size and that seemed to have been very painful. No idea how long the pain would last.

I have seen a couple of horror documentaries where they show you things that go wrong - nose a bit to one side, longer on one side than the other. Obviuosly mm count with a nose. Breasts really badly done - one higher , one lower, somehow lumpy. I presume these are not the usual results but still... felt really sorry for the women in those films.

good luck if you go ahead Ava, hope you will be happy with the result. do you have the possibility of speaking to someone who has personally had it done?

I would consider myself a feminist and am raising DD to be the same.

However, after DS arrives and is weaned, if I've lost the same amount of weight as I did last time then I already know that my breasts will have turned into flat, soggy pouches (for reference I was 11 stone before pg and 9.5 after finishing bf-ing DD).

I don't care at all about 'letting down' the sisterhood - it's nobody's business but mine. My body, my choice - I'd definitely consider surgery.

My only issue would be needlesslly going under general anasthetic, when having young children. However I have thought that if i didnt lose this pregnancy baby weight off my boobs, I would consider a reduction. However I just don't want to go under GA while having young children - its such a needless risk

I've had surgery. It's pretty major stuff, and I don't really understand why anyone would go through it unless they absolutely HAD to. I have a reconstructed boob and the surgeon did offer to make my boobs whatever size I liked. I guess that if people want to go through the risk, the pain and the expense, of course it's up to them. There is a lot of swelling after the operation, and it's hard to know what it will look like until the swelling subsides. The surgeon should have plenty of photos of their work.

OK, I've had time to look at that site now. It is indeed a great site and could be very reassuring for women who are not sure if they are normal. I know my breasts are normal because I have BF two DC for two years each ... I have never doubted that they are normal. However, the majority of the women on that site look much better than me (although mine are at least not significantly lopsided) - the closest I could find to how mine look are from a woman who has BF seven babies and is still BF a four-year-old. Also, if you read through the comments below the images, quite a few of those women are very unhappy about their breasts, even though they accept them as normal.

I don't think a boob job is something that any mum who has BF would undertake lightly - we already appreciate our breasts as non-sexual things - but I think some people perhaps don't realise quite how miserable it can be to feel so bad about their appearance.

Life is short. If this is holding you back and destroying your confidence, Ava, go for it, and good luck to you. :)

Don't do it. It wont make you happier.

Its sad that our society is obsessed with one, unobtainable standard of beauty and that so many of us internalise this. Do some voluntary work or take up kung fu instead to bolster your self esteem.

When you say "I am" you immeadiately place limitations on your self. How you perceive a "feminist" to be is probably not empowering you. I am very much against using "labels" to describe the self as thses are often the very things that limit our true potential. Whatever you think you are you are always so much more than that!

I've seen some amazing implants...personally I would consider a face lift and implants if I had the cash.

Go for it!! I agree with Eric's My dh offered to pay for new breasts after the birth of my dc's not because he wanted them but because it was one thing I was most worried about..
I'm going for the prolapse repair first.. that's whats bothering me most day to day, and it does affect my confidence and sexual confidence hugely so I do know where your coming from.

Are your family opposed to the boobs or you undergoing surgery?

AnyFawker yes they bloody do look nice Where's the sisterhood in this eh ?

It's women like you that make me keep my rather fantastic boobs undercover.

There is nothing wrong with do things to make yourself better. OP has breast feed her kids & now she wants to perk them up.

A reputable surgeon & she'll be fine. Yes it hurts, it's not like having your ears piecered, but having given birth twice, my labia stiched up with little pain relief, it's copable.

AND this nonense about taking risks, there are risk everywhere. What about women that have c-sections when they have young children...let's stop the witch hunt & offer some support

ava if you would like to contact me, please do feel free.