am i letting down the sisterhood to want cosmetic surgery?

[AvaGardner]

I have decided, after breast-feeding two children, to have a breast augmentation operation. i consider myself a feminist, and am raising my daughters to consider themselves beautiful on the inside and out, whatever their shape. i do not want giant barbie boobs, but a b cup to make me feel a bit better about myself. i'm 39 and have two very tired and shrivelled aa cups which i would rather do something about than feel a bit sad every time i get out of the shower and see myself.

my sister and my mother think i'm having a mid-life crisis and that i'm letting down the sisterhood. all the discussion boards where i have sought advice or ideas seem to feature mainly very young girls having very big breasts inserted in order to fit an ideal.

i'd really welcome your thoughts. i am feeling very conflicted and sad about this. i would like to do this for myself, but i feel somehow like i'm letting the side down or doing something trivial and slightly seedy.

POF I did actually mention Papua New Guinea a million posts back, for the same reasons as you have.

We can't escape our culture but we can decide whether we want to a follow "conventions" for want of a better word.

lowercase I didn't say that I would, did I- read the post more carefully.

Do we criticise men who have, for example, hair implants to make themselves look better? Do we criticise men who wear make-up, who dye their hair? We don't, (I don't) so why criticise a woman for doing similar. I think the 'sisterhood' is letting down its sister by asking her to continue to be unhappy.

Isn't feminism about having choice?

Ava - good luck with your decision.

There are conventions purplepeony and then there are impossible ideals perpetuated as the norm.

Saggars the point has been made quite a few times that non invasive improvements are not the same as serious surgery.

I think feminism is about equality. Having breast implants don't do much for equality.

I think feminism is about living your own life and not giving a fuck what anyone else thinks- or convention decrees. If that means having your breasts fixed because you no longer like them, bring it on.

Your argument about equality is rubbish. Equality means equality of opportunity- that's not the same as sticking 2 fingers up to men's or society's (implied)idea of a beautiful Barbie doll body. you are seriously confused.

I have read the thread PO. I'm just commenting if that's OK? IMO if you're 'improving' the way you feel about yourself, for yourself then to me surgery is no different to having your hair dyed. Criticising a woman for doing that is doing her a disservice.

purplepeony there is no need to be quite so aggressive. I have to say your argument is rather confused. Where is the equality of opportunity in having one's breasts enlarged to suit a society in which large breasts/skinny body is perpetuated as the ideal? Have you really no idea that older women with less than ideal bodies are still a subject of revile in the media?

Saggars of course you can comment. As can I comment on your comment. Invasive surgery is rather different to having your hair dyed.

And I have repeatedly said I empathize with Ava and do not judge in the slightest.

Morning all and hello in particular to purple, POFAKKEDD and saggars. Your indefatigability impresses me no end. I would take my hat off to you, but i'm wearing my dressing gown instead.

i'm not trying to have large breasts, i just would like some. and then i'd like to forget about them and feel normal. i'd probably feel less compunction to stay skinny too if i had them because at the moment i feel i have to stay thin in order to keep the rest of my body in proportion to my top half. (there's another can of worms.)

anyway, it's all immaterial this morning because i've fallen out with my sister v badly about it and feel completely sick and at this point having my sis back is the most important thing in the world.

POK
You totally don't get this, do you?

Women have the equality of opportunity to do what they want with their own lives and their own bodies. They have money, freedom, and choice.

What you can't seem to let go of is the notion that any woman who wants to change her appearance is doing so because of media pressure.

What that shows is that you feel women are too silly to make up their own minds which is not exactly "sisterhood" whatever that means.

Don't talk to me about the media and older women; I am an older woman and I am also a journalist so I know exactly what is out there.

awwwwww Ava- tell your sis to mind her own business- what's it to do with her anyway? Do what you want.

So the jist of it is that it's OK to conform to society's norms as long as it's risk free?

I'm in my dressing gown too Ava, I love Saturdays. Hope you make up with your sister soon.

Purplepeony well my opinion is that it is you that doesn't 'get' it. I don't feel women are too silly. I feel it is disingenuous to pretend that the way images of perfect women are bombarded at us from an early age has nothing to do with the decision to have breast implants.

And the irony in your phrase:
'Women have the equality of opportunity to do what they want with their own lives and their own bodies. They have money, freedom, and choice.'is hilarious. And depressing.

Go on then- explain why hilarious, and depressing. or are you just being plain nasty now because someone disagrees with your points?

images of perfect women

oh- so you believe that there is a perfect image?
that kind of throws your argument out of the water I'd say.

Oh gawd if that is the most your argument can muster then what can I say. I will come back to you tonight to explain the rest as have to go out with children now. The perfect, as it has always been, should have been in inverted commas but typing in a terrible hurry as have friends coming.

don't bother- you will never win this one and neither will I. we just think differently.

PO i hear ya

OP - if you want them, get them. Don't feel guilty, just get them. Best of luck :)

Ava, sorry about your sister. Have to agree though, that's it's your life. Do you think she might be a bit jealous ? If you're both flat chested & then you get boobs, then you won't be in the flatchested gang ?

Hope you resolve it soon...I imagine she's a little in shock. Fortunately I'm an only child so didn't have to do any explaining..

So the debate is still raging on.

Just like to add that having breast implants doesn't mean you suddenly become perfect. I still have cellulite (sob), grey streaks, wrinkles. I'm not beautifully made up, strutting around in the latest fashions or trying to seduce everyone's husband. In fact I keep my dressing gown on for as long as possible & wear slippers & cardigans.

I think the people need to realise that 'normal' women get breast implants & actually, it's ok.

Another thought to those that think they look awful, my granny never knew, but when she saw photo's of me in a bikini, she kept admiring my 'lovely bust'

i think the moral of the story ava is if you have them done don't tell anyone!!
haha sorry to hear about your sister - am sure she will get over it by christmas!

For the record i also think you are far too aggressive purplepeony.
again thanks for your comment that

"AA cups are tiny and I would be doing the same in your shoes."

That's great to know but how about celebrating all shapes and sizes?

I am also a AA cup and (relatively) fine with it - but the more comments i hear along those lines who knows? in the future maybe i'll be standing in Ava's shoes.
As i said earlier, if Ava has to ask the question perhaps all she needs is reassurance she's ok as she is.

You claim you're a feminist - I don't buy it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions - you can support everyone going out and getting this op - others may disagree.
Perhaps other people have been too harsh in saying why they disagree with it but I don't think MOST of the posters mean it as an attack on Ava - rather frustration that we as a society have got to this point that perhaps we don't just accept our bodies.

That said it's a fact - and always has been that we will be judged on how we look and if it makes you happier to do it life is certainly too short to agonise over the decision to go ahead.

From what I've read Ava it seems pretty clear you really want this so go for it.
(Maybe just wait a year til your family have forgotten about it!)

It can always be reversed (right?) if you're not happy with the results unlike say a nose job.

I will repeat myself and say that I would entertain the thought if I could be sure that

1. I would be happy with the results
2. i wouldn't start checking out what else needed fixing as I'm sure it would never end!

Although lovingthesun it sounds like you managed to stop at just the breast op?

I would rather be unhappy with real ones than unhappy with the result of fake ones.