am i letting down the sisterhood to want cosmetic surgery?

[AvaGardner]

I have decided, after breast-feeding two children, to have a breast augmentation operation. i consider myself a feminist, and am raising my daughters to consider themselves beautiful on the inside and out, whatever their shape. i do not want giant barbie boobs, but a b cup to make me feel a bit better about myself. i'm 39 and have two very tired and shrivelled aa cups which i would rather do something about than feel a bit sad every time i get out of the shower and see myself.

my sister and my mother think i'm having a mid-life crisis and that i'm letting down the sisterhood. all the discussion boards where i have sought advice or ideas seem to feature mainly very young girls having very big breasts inserted in order to fit an ideal.

i'd really welcome your thoughts. i am feeling very conflicted and sad about this. i would like to do this for myself, but i feel somehow like i'm letting the side down or doing something trivial and slightly seedy.

smallwhitecat: thank you for being a warning bell. i don't know what overanalysing is at this point! i think it's somewhere in the middle. there are some things we don't have to do any more, which is marvellous. there are some things we have the option of doing now, which is marvellous. i haven't decided where this fits. (but i don't think it's marvellous! but i do think it would make me feel better.) i've done six months of research, had three consultations and read every piece of medical analysis i could get my hands on. i've looked at pictures and talked to people who have done it. in the meantime i've tried not to obsess and tried stay grounded/not disappear up my own backside - working, looking after my family, exercising and appreciating all the things i do have. i hope i'm not hiding what i'm doing from myself. by posting on here i'm trying to be as honest with myself and all of you as i can be.

soxhound: what am i thinking? isn't there enough of what i'm thinking out there?? aren't you bored of me yet??? :-)

everyone else: thank you. again!

Ava, I would never personally attack any individual woman for having a cosmetic surgery procedure. I don't think you are 'letting down the sisterhood'. The pressures on women these days to look a certain way (particularly post-birth) are enormous and complex.

However, I do not agree with cosmetic surgery. I think it is a gross, barbaric phenomenon and feel saddened (and sickened, actually) that so many women feel the need to have silicone stuffed into their bodies, or bits of fat sucked out.

It angers me. But I am angry with society and the media for obsessing about the female form and normalising the cutting up and messing about of female bodies. I don't feel angry for people like you - just sad, really. It is very sad that a woman who has had children, and who's breasts reflect that, feels she must have surgery to give her perky, 21 yr old breasts in order to 'feel good about herself'. What does that say about our place in society? And so-called 'equality'?

hey OP, i had a conversation with a good friend lately about post bf boobs. we are both bfers but i have recently stopped. i told her that i was feeling really sad about the state of my boobs. she said well you can always get them done. i said i felt like it would undermine all my feminist principles to which she replied 'yeh i sued to feel like that but now i think you know what? i'm still a woman! i still have needs, damn right i'll get my boobs reconstructed if i need to'. i think i agree with her. my boobs recovered alot in the following weeks but my mindset on it has changed.

i am the first person to complian about the constant pornification of women and how much it undermines feminism and everything that has been so hard one BUT you're 39, your still young, you still want to enjoy your body/sexlife. you can argue that we mothers must resign ourselves to the wreckage of our post baby bodies and insist we are proud becasue we have martyerd ourselves for our babies but we are still human beings with needs and desires - we still need what we need to feel confident/sexy/whatever.

op - if you think after a few months you will cheer up about your boobs and get on with it then do nothing but if you feel like you will spend the rest of your life not ever quite feeling happy because of them then book a consultation.

i dont think boob jobs are v feminist but i don't think pretending that womens' bodies are ONLY for childbearing is very feminist either iyswim

seth you can't really expect one single incident - as you admit- to be a scientific reason for not going ahead?

Anyone having any op- and very few ops actually save lives, they tend to be about quality of life- which is another whole ethical issue ( are looks to do with quality of life, or just piles, for example) will be well advised to look at the stats for success as well as the success rates of that "surgeon". The op's only as good as the dr who does it.

What is rather ironic- if you could only see it- is that this post is on style and beauty- so for all of you who are suddenly asking why what we look like matters, why on earth are you on S&B!

OP what I meant by over analysing was I don't think making the most of yourself is a feminist issue. Wanting to be comfortable in your own skin, whether by usig a bit of slap or having surgery, is a personal choice. Neither is right or wrong, but it is wrong for other people to tell you that you are shallow, or should be happy as you are, when you are thinking of something like this.

I'm no martyr to to my children. I just think cosmetic surgery perpetuates the myth that only perky, young looking bodies that don't look like they've given birth can be sexy. And that's insulting and disturbing to me.

Sorry, Ava, I didn't mean that in a dismissive way. Have re-read your OP and can see where you're coming from. In that case, no reason to feel guilty about it. If the medical risks aren't too great, and it will make you feel very substantially better in yourself, then it's your choice. I was saying what I would say to a friend; but you are right, I hadn't read enough about your situation.

I would agree with what others have said about waiting a while.

Go for it! I've got 4 young children and am about to have surgery for a wonky jaw and chin. My kids don't have any photos of me because I feel so ugly I cant satnd having my picture taken. I hate looking in the mirror. When people look at me I think they're thinking how odd I look. I've turned down jobs/ promotions because it would involve presenting and people looking at me. And so it goes on.... Everyone thinks I'm mad but I know its the right thing for me and wish I'd done it years ago :)

I think this comment is really patronising.

It angers me. But I am angry with society and the media for obsessing about the female form and normalising the cutting up and messing about of female bodies. I don't feel angry for people like you - just sad, really. It is very sad that a woman who has had children, and who's breasts reflect that, feels she must have surgery to give her perky, 21 yr old breasts in order to 'feel good about herself'. What does that say about our place in society? And so-called 'equality'

*

Are you really crediting the Op with so little intelligence to suggest that she wants firm boobs because society expects that of her, or that she needs that to make her feel good?

why can't you accept that some people want to look good for themselves?

Unless you are being dishonest, most people would agree that aesthetically, pert breasts look nicer than spaniels ears. What's wrong in wanting to reclaim what you once had? Nothing.

soxhound: i didn't think you were being dismissive, don't worry about it.

faamily: i'm not trying to have a 'young-looking' porno body. at ALL. mine is long and (mostly) muscular and quite effective. it's just these deflated balloon boobs that are getting me down!

purplepeony: thank you for understanding what i meant about being comfortable in my own skin. i think that's the best summary of what's happening here.

and sungirltan: thank you. your comment was very practical and down to earth and helpful.

purplepeony, why do people think perky breasts look better than spaniels ears on a woman of childbearing age, who has born children?

Can you not see where those views have come from? Did we all just pluck them out of thin air, or do we all hold these views because of societal pressures, which tell us that only certain women are attractive? It's not rocket science, to be fair. It's Feminism 101.

I totally sympathise with the OP, btw. I just feel angry that women are left with this feeling of self loathing because their bopdies change after childbirth / breastfeeding.

And I don't think it's patronising to suggest that she (and others like her) are victims of a very warped societal view of what is and isn't acceptable/attractive about the feminine form.

This whole 'I'm doing it for myself' thing is a falsehood, too, I'm sorry. Analyse it in any detail and that argument falls apart.

But hey, I'm not a one-woman anti-cosmetic surgery campaigner. I can't stop you from going ahead, and if you do, good luck to you.

hey no worries ava - i used to be way anti fake boobs. now i'm a bit nearer the fence. i'm very pro 'do what you need to do to feel good' though x

whoah there. i'm not self-loathing!

i'm grateful for your comments, and interested in your interpretation of what's happening here. but i don't feel like a victim at all.

PurplePeony - I am on this thread in S&B because I saw it in Active Convos and didn't even notice which topic it was in. I should think a lot of people are here for that reason.

And of course cosmetic surgery is a feminist issue. No-one has told the OP she is shallow; I don't believe anyone here thinks she is. To whom are you imputing those views?

I don't think anyone is missing the fact that body image is bound up with confidence. The point is that there are other ways to deal with the lack of confidence; changing the body is not the only option.

Personally I think that Taokiddy's story is very, very sad, and if that's patronising, so be it. Only she knows whether making the decision to have that surgery is the right one for her; it might well be that given the options available to her at this time, surgery is the most straightforward and practical option, but that doesn't make the situation ok. It is not ok that women think the way they look is so important that they have to go through surgery in order to live a normal life.

And there is a huge misconception if people are saying the OP simply wants normal breasts. Her breasts already are normal, they are just not the breasts of a young woman who has never had children. The image of 'normal' breasts is so distorted that people think there is something wrong with a woman's body for not being young when it is old and not being childless when it has had children. Fine if that's what you want, but at least be clear about what you are wanting.

I am tall and have no boobs either op. I've breastfed 3 kids so I imagine they look a little like yours.
However, Having never been bigger than an a cup and never sunbathed toplessI can't feel that bothered about it.
On a night out I wear a padded bra and some inserts because the size 12 tops I wear were made for b cups!
All I can add to this is that I felt devastated when my mum had a facelift. I had no idea I'd feel that way and have never told her. It just felt so utterly brutal and I felt like she'd let me down by not feeling like she was good enough the perfectly normal way she was.
How does your dh feel about you doing this?

The whippet thin marathon runner I know who had c cups put in does look a bit mad-inflated-less obvious when she's got clothes on though.
Not sure about the sisterhood thing. Might be an uncomfortable conversation with your dds.

Ava - I totally understand where you are coming from - have just finished bf dc3 and well - my boobs have seen better days.

However for me - I'd rather spend the money on beautiful bras than on a boob job. I must confess its not only the GA that scares me but also the fact that I don't think I've ever seen a really good pair of fake boobs.

If I were you I'd make sure you were wearing some fabulous bras and then start doing some very careful research to ensure if you go ahead that you end up with the results you want.

Good luck whichever way you decide.

when the thread title begins, do you think I am letting down the sisterhood..?, I would assume that actually OP does wnt to hear from posters who are uneasy about cosmetic surgery from a feminist perspective

I never personally pick up on what topic the threads in active convos are actually posted under, just read the title usually

If you really hate something about your appearance/body, it is fine to have recourse to surgery to correct it.

I have had a couple of bits of minor cosmetic surgery and, while I never, ever think about it, both operations have improved my life immeasurably.

This is not a feminist issue - just a human one!

I don't understand, Ava. If you are sure about this and don't think it's a feminist issue, why ask the question?

But if you are asking the question, then my answer is: Yes, it is very much a feminist issue. The cosmetic surgery industry is an extremely lucrative area of business, aimed at making (primarily) women feel so insecure about their bodies that they are willing to pay thousands of pounds to have unnecessary surgical procedures to 'fix' themselves. If that isn't a feminist issue, then I don't know what is.

A friend of mine works as an administrator and receptionist at a cosmetic surgery clinic - a state one in Australia where most of her work is with people who are having reconstructive surgery after accidents etc. However, she was sent on a course aimed primarily at people in the private cosmetic surgery industry, at which one of the sessions was on how to persuade people to have other bits of work done, when they're in there for one operation, by making subtle little comments to make them feel shit about other bits of their body. She was at just how blatant it was.

I say that to back up Faamily's point about the industry in general being one 'aimed at making (primarily) women feel so insecure about their bodies that they are willing to pay thousands of pounds to have unnecessary surgical procedures to 'fix' themselves.' Horrible industry.

can't help feeling that womens body issues are oppressive from both angles. of ocurse we all agree that the fashion/lads mag industry objectifies women and only presents them in a sexual way but then there is the other lobby which seems to say 'you musn't covet perfect bodies - you only want that because society is tell you that!' both of these perspectives sweem to invalidate indovidual women's personal feelings about their own bodies.

faamily: i'm seeking advice so no, i'm not entirely sure. and i do think it's a feminist issue, hence the headline (where did i say i didn't think it's a feminist issue? what i said was that i'm not self-loathing.)

no-one has made me feel shit about my body. my dh is a superstar -- he's sitting beside me now, reading all this with interest. his take on this is that if it will make me feel better i shouldn't feel guilty about it.

re: the industry -- in general i'd say yes it is horrible. but the surgeon i'm thinking about going to does more than half of his work on reconstructive surgery for women who've undergone mastectomies, and trained at the hospital where my mum had her mastectomy, and subsequent resconstruction (when she went up to a c cup on request from an a cup...)

sungirl: you've encapsulated 49 threads very neatly, bravo.

On the one hand I totally agree with Faaamily.

On the other, though, I don't think you can argue that reasonably perky breasts are more attractive than the ones that hang down to woman's belly button, withered and stretch-marked.

I mean, just objectively. If you put them in an exposition box and forgot about all the ridiculous standards that society holds us to, you wouldn't say- yes, those ones, the deflated wrinkled ones, are nice.

I bf 2 dcs, am still bf dd and my breasts are ugly. Yes, they are part of my body, I'm attached to them etc, but there is no doubt that, objectively, they are ugly. It's not about the size, it's about their almost dead, sad appearance.

So while I wouldn't personally have a surgery as it's too much of a risk plus not sure I could deal mentally with having 'new' part of my body, I can understand why someone is not happy about a part of them that has changed so much (because, let's be honest, a little roll of fat on your tummy or even crepey, loose skin is usually not so a dramatic change as breasts can undergo after pg and bf).

So I'm not sure it's all about conforming etc. I'm not happy when I bend down and my breasts almost sweep the floor. Is it so strange?