am i letting down the sisterhood to want cosmetic surgery?

[AvaGardner]

I have decided, after breast-feeding two children, to have a breast augmentation operation. i consider myself a feminist, and am raising my daughters to consider themselves beautiful on the inside and out, whatever their shape. i do not want giant barbie boobs, but a b cup to make me feel a bit better about myself. i'm 39 and have two very tired and shrivelled aa cups which i would rather do something about than feel a bit sad every time i get out of the shower and see myself.

my sister and my mother think i'm having a mid-life crisis and that i'm letting down the sisterhood. all the discussion boards where i have sought advice or ideas seem to feature mainly very young girls having very big breasts inserted in order to fit an ideal.

i'd really welcome your thoughts. i am feeling very conflicted and sad about this. i would like to do this for myself, but i feel somehow like i'm letting the side down or doing something trivial and slightly seedy.

Belgrano, FWIW, my opinion on breast implants would be the same for any woman, child-free or with 16 kids

and I am wondering when our offspring would be "old enough to not think a boob job will make them happy", bearing in mind it appears this thread is full of rather more mature women who still think like that

How condescending AF.

What an insult to many women here- including the OP who appears to be highly educated and intelligent- to say that only a boob job can make them/us happy.

You surely are just being provactative and not serious ?

If you look at my previous post on this point, maybe you cna say what for you, is the limit to looking good?

Shaving your legs? having a hair cut? A brace? Flattering clothes?

Or is the boob job simply so bad because boobs can be sexual parts of our body? And there for we should be "above" any work on anything like that?

funnily enough, invasive surgery to fulfil a societal ideal is where I draw the line

there is absolutely no comparison between invasive surgery and having your hair cut, what a ridiculous suggestion

do you know what? i would do it if i could be sure i'd be happy with the results - but of course you can't be. i'd rather be unhappy with the real thing than unhappy with fake ones!!
also, i would be scared i'd start looking at what else needed fixing... slippery slope :)

No more ridiculous than your suggestion that having your breasts increased/decreased/hoiked up fulfils some sort of "societal ideal."

I think there have been enough posts here from intelligent women who have made it very clear that if and when they have a boob job, it will be for them not to conform to any societal ideal.

If you choose not to believe them then there is nothing anyone can do to convince you.

yup

Of course there is more to happiness than having breast implants. that is rather the point. If you want to go through major surgery and wound healing to be 'satisfied with one aspect of your appearance' I think that is even more worrying to be honest, not to say a little disingenuous, as is the claim that these decisions are not in the least influenced by the stereotypes of 'perfect' and child free women in the media [most of whom have had breast implants themselves] If you'd rather I say that having breast implants teaches one's daughters that unless you have perfect breasts you cannot be satisfied with your appearance, well that is a depressing lesson to be learned too.

It is not the same in the least as having non-invasive manicures or haircuts. Major surgery, deep wounds and silicon inserted into one's breasts entail risks where haircuts and manicures have none.

Not telling them until they are older doesn't really stop them learning that lesson Belgrano.

I can see and empathize with all your reasons for wanting cosmetic surgery. But I just can't pretend there is not a much bigger political issue at stake, that of the objectification of women that has been even more amplified by the fake breast boom, and I think it is disingenuous to ignore that.

I never get this thing about having plastic surgery done for oneself rather than other people. If you were living alone on a desert island surely you wouldn't be bothered about having any plastic surgery or beautification done. Isn't it always for other people in one sense or another?

yes, its vanity.

and surgery on healthy bodies is insanity.

im a poet!

Surely even a reconstruction is only cosmetic? There is no clinical reason for me to have a new breast built.

a reconstruction is not comparable an enlargement.

But why not lowercase? I'm not being argumentative, it's a question I'm genuinely asking myself.

Tbh, the surgery I'm going to face to have my reconstruction is immense, much more complex than enlargement surgery. It will involve taking muscle and tissue from my abdomen and using it to shape a breast. It's a major operation I'll be putting myself through for no real clinical reason.

Obviously my body has changed, but then so has the OP's, just for different reasons.

I think because a reconstruction is like having a prosthetic arm fitted, or leg. It makes you feel whole.

Yes, I can see that. Although prosthetic limbs are not fitted during surgery I don't think, they are removable, not permanent. Similar to my silicone breast prosthesis in that sense.

I suppose that if medical knowledge existed to permanently replace a lost limb, that could be preferable to a prosthesis. I guess that's comparable to reconstruction surgery. I certainly appreciate that the option is available to me.

Sorry, I feel I'm hijacking this thread. It's just raised a whole load of questions for me to ponder over.

Yes that is what I feel. That if it were possible to have reconstructive surgery to restore an arm or leg, it would be done. That is not vanity in the same sense. It does not contribute to the objectification of women.

Can I say something here and ask please don't jump on me for saying it?

What you're saying about feeling whole is exactly how i feel about the surgery i'm considering, and the reasons i'm considering it. it's genuinely not to measure up to an ideal. it's because i feel like a part of me is missing.

wubbly: i wish you all the best. my mum's reconstruction surgery was a very emotional process and a big step towards embracing and celebrating her sense of self again. i don't think anyone would question your right to that.

Look Ava you go for it, I do understand how you feel. God I would love the body I had before children. But I feel it is almost impossible to decipher what is purely our own motives and what is a process of osmosis from an early age, growing up in a society where physical perfection for women especially, determines their value.

Thank you Ava.

My opinions on surgery have probably changed since all this. I don't think I fully understood it before. I think your reasons are just as valid mine.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do

POFAKKEDD: (what does that stand for?) thank you, and thank you for all the sensible and intelligent points you have made. what you say about deciphering our motives is so true. i have a headache from trying.

wubbly: and to you, with very best wishes.

It was originally an IKEA twist on my old name Ava. Have been meaning to change back.

Best wishes to you and wubbly and good luck with whatever you decide.

I disagree: If you were living alone on a desert island surely you wouldn't be bothered about having any plastic surgery or beautification done. Isn't it always for other people in one sense or another?"

well, no actually.

For the same reason that even if i am alone in the house all day, going for a walk in the country, or doing the garden, I'll wear pretty much full slap- because I look better IMO, and it's done for me!

If I look in the mirror and see myself pale and with purple circles under my eyes, i want to cover them up.

I just don't get why some posters don't get this- or can't accept it.

i dont believe that if you were alone on a desert island you would be interested in applying cosmetics?

crank

make up is a cultural thing purplepeony, if you lived in Papua New Guinea you might style yourself rather differently. so you can't really say it is all down to what you want and not influenced by cultural and societal norms/stereotypes.

Everything is influenced by societal norms and whatever influences we each have from our upbringing and life experiences.

I do think there is a big difference between people having their breasts enlarged because they want to have big breasts on show, and people who simply would like their breasts to look more like they used to a few short years ago. For many of us with smaller breasts no one else would be able to tell that we'd had them filled out again, because they simply weren't very noticeable in the first place.

I used to love my breasts, small and shapely and just right they were to me, and a part of my body I knew really quite well. They played a part in me feeling sexy, and in me enjoying sex. That I miss them has nothing to do with society because to the outside world there is no difference, I don't sell myself professionally on the basis appearance and I'm not in the market for sex or companionship.

However I do think that the cosmetic surgery industry is a deeply iffy one and I've seen a lot of very bad implants, so it's not a risk I'd take without a great deal of research (plus I've other priorities for my cash right now).