sted dad advice needed regarding step son

[toy23]

Me and my wife have been toghether for about 3 years now been married one year. We have 3 children toghether ages 18 months 2 and half years and 5 years (5 year old is in middle of me getting adoption).My wife has 2 children aged 10 and half and 9. I get on great with step daughter look at her as one of my own, but the step son is another story.

Basicly i dont like him at all he is nearly 11 years old yet acts like 2 year old he speaks to me and wife like shit.If he dont get his own way he winges like mad its perfetic he has been violent towards his oldest sister and the 5 year old in past.I have tryed to talk with him spending time with him but as long as he gets his own way he doesent care at all

It has now got to the point ware i hate him pure hate him i wont speak to him unless exstreamly nessasary. I hate it when we go out as faimly when he is thare.It makes me feel sick when he talks to the little ones to the as i dont whant them growing up to be like him and acting like him.

I have never hit him but came close once when the 18 month old was in hospital at 9 months my wife was staying at the hospital with her came home to get some stuff and when she said she was going back to hospital he starts winging. I lost it the baby could have died and all he cared about was getting his own way.

I know things cant continue the way they are, i wake up every morning wondering if he going to hit one of little ones or even my wife due to his violent tendancs. Knowing if he did god couldent help him.

Me and wife have had him to see doctors about his behavioure but they ruled out everything.I dont know what to do anymore its causing problems between me and wife and thare is always tenshion in the house.

Any advice would be aprishiated

p.s: sorry about spelling grammer

I find this very , hes 11, a child, i know they can be hard work but i could never say i hatted my step child (i have 3 of them).

There is a reason why this child is acting like this and i think you need to be finding out why.

You're not blind to what's happening or the consequences, hence your posts, so why are you frightened to seek support? What do you think might happen if you did?

Toy, I am sorry that you had such a troubled upbringing, truly, I am. Don't let what happened to you cloud your judgement over this issue, Diva's DS is not you at age 10, I think you are worried that he is/is becoming who you were at that age. I understand that you are asking for help, but you need to try harder, don't give up on your son, he has had it tough in the past and needs you both to help him, if you don't help him, who will?
I do appreciate that this must be hard for both of you, but your son is a child.

Divastrop That is your Son no man should ever come before your child I understand that you have other children but still I can promise you that if you did choose your husband over your DS then he will grow up hating you and your DH I have been in that sitiution with my Dad and DSM We walk past each other in the street and dont regonise each other even thou I have contact with my Sister and her DS. Pure anger and Hatred fills me when I think about them and it ruined my whole teens.

Is your X involved in the kids? Maybe you should spend time with him on your own away from your DH you need to forget about the past and whats your fault and concentrate on yours and your son's future If your X is still around doe's he have much contact with your DS and do you both have the same rules etc? I for one would set your DS straight lay down some ground rules explain when he winges it gets him no where and try the naughty step or something for everytime he winges.

As for Toy23 If you spoke about my DS like that married or not you would be out the door so the kid has some behavior problems are you suprised when you tell him u hate him he sounds like he needs some love and support instead hate and arguements also you being his SF does not give u any rights to even think about hitting him from your posts I feel you may be the arrogant and selfish one. He is 10yrs old and he has had to deal with firstly his parents splitting up then being introduced to a new person in his life with new kids its a confusing enough age with all that on top of him I suggest you try harder and cut this kid some slack try find the root of the problem rather than assume that he is a nasty piece of work and not to speak to him for a year is crazy

This post has shocked me to say the least

Divastrop I suggest you spend some time with your DS and find out how you can make him happier

And Toy23 if you have had an abusive childhood why would u want your Dss to feel the way you did as a kid you see that hate u have for your Step father is that what u want from ur DSS I think you need to fix up abit and try and include this obv upset little boy into your family rather than out cast him as his behaviour in fact will get worse Kids will seek attention in any means by being naughty or being loved and not once has either of u said anything good about this Kid maybe some love and support will help if it does'nt least you have tried

Diva, I've been thinking about this thread a lot today and have felt very sad for all of you.
your dh has been there for you and obviously loves you very much, which is great for you.

However, in telling ds1 that he hates him the damage is irreversible as far as their relationship is concerned.

I could not have anyone have a relationship with any of my children if it turned out that person hated one of them. I would remove myself and my child from that relationship immediately.

I also really feel for you diva, it must be a really difficult situation.

Your Dh said you had been to the Gp and "they ruled everything out". I wonder how much info you gave the Gp about your ds's relationship with his father and now stepfather. I am a GP (FWIW - am not an expert on child psychology) but it sounds like your poor ds is suffering from a form of reactive attachment disorder, which is not surprising given your past history, with abusive first husband and now emotionally abusive new dh (i agree with the other posters it is emotional abuse, even if it is unintentional)

Please will you go back to the GP, book a 20 min appointment, without your ds to start with and talk it all through (see another one of first one wasn't sympathetic). maybe print out your/toy23 posts from here if it helps. you should be referred on to someone for specialist help i my area that would be a child and family consultation centre. it is exactly what it says - as both the child and the family need help here.

Toy23 you said you have tried talking to him, and he doesn't want to change. He is too young and immature to understand the consequences of his actions, and doesn't know HOW to change because it is a learned pattern of behaviour. by that I mean because of what has happened in his life, he is full of emotional pain, sadness and feelings of rejection. this causes him to behave the way he does, and sadly it is so entrenched that it will take more then just you talking to him (especially if you have already told him you hate him). it will take therapy from a professional, and the family dymanics will need to change as well so he can learn to trust people again.

i understand how difficult it must be (my parents fostered, dad is a child protection officer and we adopted my cousin who was being abused - long story) BUT see it from this little boys point of view. he started out as a blank canvas and has continually been rejected, and feels that the people that matter most - his parents or father figures, hate him. he will have zero self esteem. can you imagine how this makes a child feel??? imagine being helpless in a big scary world with no-one to turn to. he is making your life hell, but least you are old enough to rationalise and talk about your feelings. he just feels unloved and unwanted and there is no worst feeling for a child.

you do need urgent help as a family, and you could still get a good outcome if you act now, try to stop blaming him for everything and instead try and see things from his point of view and understand WHY he behaves like he does. if you don't act, the consequences could be dire.

oh and my cousin had RAD after his mother abused him, before my parents adopted him, and happily now, after a long slog he's a fine and well adjusted 30 something.

Sorry reading through you posts again but this sentence from your first post really really worries me

"I know things cant continue the way they are, i wake up every morning wondering if he going to hit one of little ones or even my wife due to his violent tendancs. Knowing if he did god couldent help him"

what will you teach him if you are violent to him? he needs to be taught about love and respect, and about other methods of discipline. he will not be able to defend himself. HE IS A CHILD. get help before you are violent to him.

divastrop - in this boys eyes you are everything. you have got to save him by getting help. and by talking to your dh. your job is to protect not reject. sorry if that sounds harsh, it has upset me rather a lot.

Diva I'm sorry you don't recognise a threat of violence to your DS or a threat of abandonment as abusive behaviour. It is. But good on you for standing up for your boy. My DS who is bigger than my DD hits her occasionally. It would be utterly mad to believe that in response, I should hit him. Toy you are still reserving for yourself the right to do this if your SS displays this particular undesirable behaviour and you haven't acknowledged that that is an inappropriate response.

I disagree that Toy's upbringing and background has nothing to do with his response to his SS, I think it probably does. And I think it would be very helpful (even though probably v. painful) to talk through it with a professional. ATM you're still heading towards continuing the cycle, but both of you sound as though you are capable of breaking it. You have to be utterly determined to though.

Diva, you may not be in an abusive relationship, but you are forcing one on your son if you continue to allow someone who hates your son to live in your son's home.

I honestly think that past abuse has calloused you to how bad your husband's behavior and attitude is.

If you cannot bear to make your husband leave, and therefore alleviate the pressure and misery heaped upon your little boy, then you owe it to him to find him someone who CAN give him a safe environment, and can assure him that his mother condoning her husband's hatred of him does not mean that he is only worth hating. Find him some outside help. It isn't your husband doing the most damage, it is the fact that you are allowing this.

Your child is being abused under your roof. You cannot be a victim any more, you have to be the adult now. Either help your child and make his home safe for him again, or find someone who can.

Toy23, you have a great deal of growing up to do. Whether or not you believe in hiding your feelings is irrelevant. You are abusing this child by insisting that you hate him, by allowing him to feel hated. You are in a position of trust and you are failing. It is your job to show him how men behave and you are showing him that men abuse children.

I have tried to stay away from this thread because i feel so strongly about it.

i hope that i am calm enough to say this in a way that will not offend but i do not promise.

Toy -as such what you are you are saying you are a child of a broken and abusive home. you say that by the age your SS is you were out muggin gpeople at knife point. so far all he has done is not want to take a cup to the kitchen.

You are screwed up by your own childhood and you are now forcing your history onto this child.
yes some of his problems preceed your involvment with the family but it is no small wonder this poor child is unsettled and has temper issue's when he ha had to deal with 3 abusive father figures in 10 years.
whather you and Diva recognise it as such or not, you ARE emotionally abusing your son (im a social worker so know)

You need to seek independant councelling for your own demons.
once you understand why your own behaviour became so aggressive then you will have a better grounding as to understanding your SS.

Your SS needs independant councelling too. Diva i would ask you to speak to school and ask for a JAT referral. explain whats going on and tell them that you feel he should have someone to speak to with regards to his traumatic life so far.

Diva you too need to speak to someone about you DV. i feel you have low self esteem and i
worry that you allow your Dh to speak for you with regards your son because you feel you aren't strong enough to. you fgeel guilty about how much he has been through and you almopsty let Dh take over because it is easier. you need to resolve these issues in order to be striong enough to battle for your son.

Toy will then need parenting classes. having sex does not make you qualified as a parent. it is not an easy job and some need help in mastering teh skills it takes. Diva i know you have said you have been on a course before but i dont think it will hurt for you to acompany toy and go through teh process again. refresh yourself.

and then you ALL need to go to family therapy. i can't think why you do not wish to go...unless there is violance in the relationship somewhere along the line then there is no reason why it cant work.

As for your sons potential violance. he is 10! sometimes siblings fight especially when they are children.
Stop expecting him to act with a maturity that im sorry toy you are yet to show yourself.

Thank you Mamazon, I think you have said what most of us are feeling.

Toy and Diva I think you did a very brave thing coming on hear and explaining your situation. I really think this is the first step in changing things, and the first step is often the hardest, so well done.

I think professional support is called for, there's some great therapists around who can help you get through this, don't feel shy or ashamed.. you can't change the past but you can change the future.

Grab it with both hands and try some of the websites/numbers people have mentioned, I think Barnado's could be very useful.

Also talk to your GP again. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Good luck to you both.

Toy, I am so glad you are not my stepfather. I was 12 when my stepfather moved in and looking back I was more than awful to him.

But at no point did he ever make me feel unloved. He stuck with it and offered the most basic of parental gifts: tolerance, understanding and love, which you do not seem to have.

It took about 6 years but eventually I did become more mature and realise my behaviour was out of order and probably due more to my issues with my dad than with him. Things only got better from then.

Now I am in my 30's with 3 children of my own and have a terrific relationship with both my mother and stepfather - BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GIVE UP ON ME.

My heart is breaking for your little boy, he must be so sad.

Unfortunately you cannot expect him to grow to love and respect you when he hears you talking about him like this. All I can ask is that you take a leaf from my stepfather's book and treat your ds the way you would wish to have been treated at his age.

Please give it time, as I have demonstrated changes will not happen overnight.

I think we all bring our demons to parenting and the challenge is to turn our experiences into something positive in our parenting.

Of course this situation has not been ideal but it is probably not as bad as everyone thinks.

Divas ds has probably been very challenging because he will want maximum of any kind of attention from the man in his life. And maybe indifference would have been the worst abuse. The fact that Toy is struggling with this shows that he does care.

Which of us get it right straight away? Especially when challenged to the core? Toy has the potential to be a fantastic influence for this boy.

Already Toy may have done some good, a troubled boy needs boundaries, he needs to know that his behaviour isn't going to be tolerated. He needs to know that he is not the boss.

His parents need to present a united front. Yes he needs to be shown love. But sometimes showing love isn't just about saying I love you.

A stepfather who goes through the motions of being 'good' but who's heart isn't in it would be the most subtle and evil hatefullness which noone could put their finger on!

We can all feel sorry for divas boy, but he isn't a kitten. He will probably not understand or respect a soppy approach.

Toy hasn't given up...far from it.

Support is what Toy needs to give him the strength and confidence to meet this challenge. And in turn divas ds1 needs Toy to work this out.
He doesn't need to be removed, he needs to be able to get all his shit out with his own family and for his family to work out how to process it.

Shouldn't we be trying to help and support them rather than judging on very little information?

"A stepfather who goes through the motions of being 'good' but who's heart isn't in it would be the most subtle and evil hatefullness which noone could put their finger on!"

Supersillyus, that is utter nonsense. Sometimes in life we are obliged to do things we would rather not, to "go through the motions" because we have a duty to our family. When you marry somone with children you take on a huge responsibility, both to their children and any future children you may have.

Telling a child you hate them is really nasty. That will tear away at their sense of self, and it is plenty evidence that there is serious emotional abuse here. Besides the demonising of normal, childish behaviour - the whinging and fighting with his siblings.

Being kind and caring to a child, even if you can't bring yourself to love them, is only the right way to behave. And in time love often grows.

Diva, you have not mentioned your DS1 and DD1's father. Could they go and stay with him? As a mother, please don't allow this situation to continue, where your son lives in a house with a man who hates him and wakes up every morning imagining violence.

I think it is better to admit you have a problem with a child rather than pretend there isn't a problem. I don't like people who make a show of being right and good when it isn't sincere, that's all.

I am not saying it is good or right to tell a child you hate them.

I don't live with my husband because of a similar problem so I know the reality of splitting a family over this issue and if it can be avoided it should be.

Also my family fostered a very difficult and damaged boy and we couldn't help him and we all really tried so hard. He only wanted his own family, we failed. He died young of a violent death.

But yes of course I take on board and agree with what you say about behaving kindly and hopefully love will follow.

Upwind, Diva has mentioned the father of her ds1 and dd1, he is the one who used to beat her and initiated the deep problems for them all.

I am going against the grain here to say that I have sympathies for ALL of you. Until anyone has lived through your situation we cannot begin to understand everything that is going on. (I too have a SC who is violent and find..erm...'difficult to like').

I am not condoning any behaviours mentioned on here but just hope that you can all find a solution that works for everyone.

You need outside help for this situation. At 11 he is a little boy; and an angry, mixed up little boy.
You are the adults and are responsible for his mental health and well being. You can't write him off as leaving home in 7 years. You are parents for life-not until 18!
I wouldn't have married anyone who had problems with my children but as you have already done it you need to seek help for the whole family.

Toy, I hope the opinions aired on this thread haven't driven you away. I wasn't going to return to the discussion at all - I have found it upsetting and everything has been said, again and again.

But I've been thinking about you all day, and wondering about your perspective on this. I'm currently going through the adoption process, and one of the things the social workers insist you read up on and understand is the impact of disruptive/distressing early years on children.

I expect it feels to you like we are all saying 'poor little boy' with no understanding of how difficult he is, day in day out. It's probably very hard to see him as a sad little boy. But that is what distressed children are like: angry, disruptive, often difficult to love.

You say you've tried everything, but you haven't tried keeping trying. Honestly, it takes years of calm, consistent parenting - not months - to start turning round a damaged child.

It sounds as though you are waiting for your stepson to realise the error of his ways, and change them, before you will be willing to do the same. But that won't happen, will it? 10-year-olds don't have that level of self-awareness and thoughtfulness, and damaged 10-year-olds certainly don't. It may seem unfair to you that you should be asked to change first, but it is really and truly the only way forward. There is no alternative, short of giving up on this family altogether.

If you want to hold this family together, you should do two things. First is to apologise to your stepson for telling him you hate him. No buts, or self-justification, or asking him to apologise too, just saying sorry, it was a terrible thing to say, you were angry and it came out all wrong, you'd really like to make things better. You never know, he may reflect on times when he's been angry and done hurtful things and then regretted it, but don't ask that of him.

Secondly, get professional help. You can't not - this problem sounds too big for you to handle without. Many posters here have made excellent suggestions of who to turn to.

I really do wish you luck. You've been to hell and back yourself and I'm impressed by how you managed to pull yourself out of a very bad situation. See this as another bad situation that you have the intelligence and courage and persistence to turn around. I'm sure you and diva can do it, you just have to accept that the responsibility lies in your hands, not those of your stepson.

great post hester

Excellent post Hester.

lot of people saying that he is just little boy but you seemed to be forgeting something that little boy is the age of criminal responsibility. So in the laws eyes he is responsible for his own actions and has some control over them.