SS being inappropriate with DD *trigger warning**

[Tryingoworkitout79]

I don't know what to think. My youngest DD, 5, was behaving oddly last night, trying to look in my pants, which is strange for her as she's quite uninhibited and comfortable with her body and mine (and used to them). Talking to her, it seems that SS, nearly 8, asked to see her 'privates/bits' over the weekend, she said no, she didn't want to and he moved her shorts to one side so he could see, saying that he wanted to. This apparently happened in the kitchen when I'd gone upstairs to get something. WTH!

DP rang his mum (as he's back with her now) and gently asked if she could ask him about it (arguably we should have waited till next week when he's with us, but though it was a good idea to let her know) and she's hit the roof telling us we're sexualising young innocent children!!

Yes, I'm utterly furious and feel a whole wide range of strong emotions that SS did that to DD when she said no.

But I'm not for a second suggesting that at their age it's sexual.

What the hell kind of message does that send DD, at this young age, that saying 'no' to someone seeing or touching your body carries no goddamn weight?!!! Jesus.

Yes they have compared it to this - one post literally asked what someone would do if a work colleague did the same thing. Some posters have become frankly very creepy about what ultimately should be about protecting a vulnerable 5 year old child, but which also concerns an still-small 7 year old child. Not a confirmed predator, and definitely not an adult.

@Gytgyt you realise everyone can read what you have posted previously. And there maybe dismissive comments on this post but
@GCalltheway hasn't made any...

Talking of tone, people can agree or disagree with you. This poster your calling "dismissive" actually agrees with you but also rightly points out. It's ops call not yours or hers or anyone else's what dad does.

Putting a them verses us won't actually help either of the children in this situation. Your solution that op shouldn't date or be with her dp is just a opinion.. and you know what they say about opinions...

@Cantstaystuckforever ah then I apologise I haven't seen that although this thread is really long.

I think it's one of those things. This situation needs handling. Abused kids often repeat abuse patterns. That doesn't make them a predator but it also doesn't mean they don't pose risk for repeating those patterns creating another damaged kid.

Obviously the problem being mum who I assume is RP - is completely unwillingly to address the issue.

Now if I was being jaded I could say so either mum knows there's a problem causing her child to act this way and is sweeping it under the rug. Or mum is neglecting her child and knows there's a issue and doesn't want it looked at as it implicates her in some way (via her new partner, family member ect) and she doesn't wanna deal with it.

The results are the same. Short of reporting him and or mum to ss. Change is unlikely to happen. Which means the risk is likely to get worse as this kid hits puberty because the RP is not on board.

The risk isn't going to magically disappear at 8 children know right from wrong because if it was innocent- he would have done it in front of the adults.

The ss issues and how to tackle it with this dynamic- fuck knows tbh. It's not really ops place to either way.

But since op is posting about her 5 year old. You would think people would be focused on the victim of this situation and how to help her. Not turn this into a whole poor boy being excluded from the house because he stole a cookie.

Ops not a demon for wanting to protect her child. Mum should be wanting to address the issue with ss. Since she's not the risk isn't going to go away and I even with op keeping dd separate from ss, he still has some issues that need to be resolved and won't be resolved by a chat.

People forget the bulger boys who were 10 when they committed that awful crime. There were signs of I remember correctly but people stuck their head in the sand.

If my 4 can grasp right from wrong so can a 8 year old. It doesn't mean he's a monster for what happened. It also doesn't also mean he's not a risk.

Separate issues imo.

Thank you for all the posts. It's been a rough day. Talked to DD again after school today, when she was settled and relaxed. Convinced it happened how she said it did, but she seems genuinely okay which is something. I'm clinging onto everything at the moment.

When she said no initially, apparently he said 'you're not my best friend then' which made me want to vomit. Have been feeling nauseous ever since. I reiterated what he did wasn't okay and about PANTS. Will leave it now until the weekend when I'll sit down with all three of my girls. Will try to keep it light but get the message across.

DP is talking to SS as soon as he can. He said he's not going to get angry but will try to get him to tell the truth and and feel comfortable enough to be open.

The world suddenly feels very different since last night. I'm sorry if that sounds melodramatic.

Oh and it gets worse with SS's mum. In an email to DP today, she called my DD a 'spoilt brat' (she isn't, she has some mild developmental delays which means she needs some extra attention) and is again minimising and deflecting. I want nothing more to do with her.

I said it earlier, but SS won't be coming to the house again. I hope he gets all the help and support he needs, although I can make suggestions, I'm not the one to instigate that. Though I appreciate what other posters have said about possible abuse at home

We have a book called Only For Me, it's really good for your daughter's age group.

Erm quite a few included the posted you tagged have been dissimive about the boy being 8. Perhaps you need to re read. That poster has been suggesting others are defending the boy including my post.

I didn't exactly say OP shouldn't date I said basically that's the least of her worries with 3 girls. What I was pointing out most importantly that it's not fair for OP to continue this relationship. Don't try and twist what I said. What's your solution because I don't see you been concerned for the SS either? Are you sure your post isn't biased because it comes across that way apologises if I have misunderstood but I can't see where you have any solutions regarding the boy or did I miss that?

After reading OPs latest update the SS mother doesn't sound very good. I've not noticed you or @GCalltheway say dad has a duty of care to his own Son this has become all about ops DD. He is a child at the end of the day. Arguing that he isn't small is ridiculous. It won't change the facts that he is 8.

Oh op it’s an awful thing to have happened to your dd, and especially in a place where you thought she was safe, with people that cared about her. It has changed everything, and you are probably reeling from the enormity and what it means for the future.

It is good that your dp is so committed to supporting his son, but I fear without his mothers commitment to do the same (which speaks volumes about her parenting) then almost certainly this child won’t get the help or guidance so badly needed. I hope social services will be investigating properly. Have they been informed? The mothers reaction is really strange op, and is concerning.

Focus on your little girl now, take it easy for a few days. Let the dust settle. I hope dp understands fully why ss can no longer visit your house and is preparing accordingly.

I am sorry this happened to you both op. 💐 you sound like a lovely family.

Thank you again GCall for all your understanding and help. Just going to like you say take some time and let the dust settle.

Apparently teacher finally replied and they haven't had any Sex Ed yet at school though the letter went out. DP tried to call twice too but teacher hasn't called back. I too think
social services need to be involved, whether that's via school or directly. SS needs help and support and his mum's reaction is very worrying. When she said that I immediately thought about how people blame the victim. It's horrendous. He may be a child, but she's not.
I'm sure school will contact social services once they know? Keep thinking about all the lovely girls in his class and again, makes my stomach turn. I've been so angry. But I know DP won't let this go, as he shouldn't.

Going to focus on my girls and DD being safe. She is so happy and lovely x

Jeez @Tryingoworkitout79 you are being so strong. The boy’s mother‘s refusal to accept anything untoward is frightening and irresponsible, it will be hard for her and she is lashing out (this does not make it ok though).

Leave DP, the mother and school to take this forward as you concentrate on your girl, as long as there is no further unsupervised contact - you’ve got this.

Give some thought to what might happen at situations like family gatherings etc down the line, have a plan of how you want to navigate those.

xx

I will be absolutely crystal clear with you if that’s easier for you to understand.

SS parents have NOT posted on here asking for support and help because their son has abused a little girl. Op has posted on here asking for help and support for her child and we are responding to her.

It is no one’s job on here to speculate what is wrong with the 8 year old boy nor do we know what is being done to address this incident behind the scenes or otherwise.

We are on here purely supporting op and her child, the victim of an unprovoked and deeply disturbing incident.

IF you want to talk about child perpetrators of sexual abuse feel absolutely free to start your own thread at any time. I will not be engaging with you again.

Op, I say this gently but it’s not in the interests of your dp to contact social services, his likely instincts will be to try and deal with this at home and behind closed doors, and to some degree to protect his own son. It seems odd the teacher replied so flippantly that they haven’t touched on sex education, so clearly she isn’t aware at this stage of what has happened.

For obvious reasons most parents fear the SS and avoid involvement.

In your position, given the minimising of the mother, your dp trying to do the right thing but rather rudderless when faced with the mother’s ineptitude and total indifference I would be placing a call to social services today. Discreetly. You can walk through what has happened and request to remain anonymous.

There is a duty of care to ensure the authorities are fully aware of this incident so that they can check on ss. It might not be comfortable to do this, but for his sake I think you should, and you can close the door on this chapter knowing you have done everything you can.

@Gytgyt the previous poster has articulated it much better than I could re why me and her have focused on ops dd.

There have been quite a few people defending or minimising ss actions. A nauseating amount have been subtly calling this 5 year old a liar. Not only have I posted what I would do if ss was my son, I also have posted what I think needs to happen to safe guard both children. It just happens you disagree. Literacy skills have gone down hill it would appear or maybe your selectively ignoring certain elements. But people can read what everyone's put and make their own mind up.

But as this thread is about supporting op and her dd. Im not going to keep engaging with you and derailing it. Have a blessed day ect

Another call to ss given your most recent update op.

Arguably anyone you have told very well may have already called ss about this and if it boils down to it - the behaviour does need to be flagged since mum has fallen into the camp of ignore at all costs and this young lad maybe mimicking the behaviours.
You would be doing it for both of them, although I appreciate mum will not appreciate it but ss will not disclose the name of the reporter.

Abuse or potential abuse - (which ss may be mimicking who knows) needs to be brought into the light. They will have the skills to handle this far better than mum you or your dp.

I'm sorry your dealing with this I really am. Every mums worst nightmare.

I agree with @GCalltheway about SS - because sadly your DD may not have been the first or last child he does this to. Hopefully SS can flag for safeguarding to the school and address properly it with his parents.

I agree with this. You need to be sure they've been contacted.

@Tryingoworkitout79 I commented earlier, but wanted to add you sound amazing and that too often this type of incident is ignored to the detriment of all. Your daughters are lucky to have you properly looking after them.

Thank you 123, I don't feel it, but appreciate you saying it. And thank you to other posters too.

SS dad has called the safeguarding lead at school and is waiting for a call back. I agree about social services and yes - I can see that were this not reported and happened again, it's unthinkable.

I told DD school this morning at drop off and they are looking out for her, they were very good. She's been absolutely fine at school they said but I feel better that they're aware. They are going to let other staff know too.

The SS asked the girl if he could look. She said "NO!" and then he went and did it any way. That is not curiosity at that point. If he knew enough to "ask", he knew enough to realize that "NO" meant "NO", not "Go ahead and look against her will".

Good to hear that you are protecting your daughter. Good to hear that your partner is taking it seriously, because it sounds like the boy needs help. But your priority in this is quite rightly your daughter.

I agree with this and is never have that child near my daughter again.

I agree with this.

At 8 years of age he knows well this is wrong.

She said No, and he touched her anyway.

He used manipulative language with her.

I wouldn't want him ever near my child again, and OP, you will save yourself heartache by letting this relationship go.

This child is someone who doesn't accept No.

I would expect there will be issues of some sort going forward.

His behaviour is not normal.

It is off.

Unfortunately he has shown early signs that may well cause very serious problems in the future with pushy sexually inappropriate behaviour or sexual assault in his teens.

It always amazes me how people are so quick to play down and dismiss wrong behaviour as innocent when in fact it is a really early flag that something is very off.

I am so glad you are taking this seriously and protecting your daughter.

I would tell his father to treat this an early warning of possible disordered sexual behaviour and urges in this boy.

He didn't accept No, and he tried to manipulate her.

That is actions of a predatory child.

How many young girls are sexually abused by brothers who are barely in their early teens?

So many that you never hear about.

At nearly 60 I know of several cases where girls never told their parents, but left home and refused any futher contact with their sibling.

Others eventually told parents because they refused to visit and it caused unbelievable grief and upset in the family, tearing the family apart.

One dear friend of mine with 3 sisters that were abused, she wasn't, waited until both their wonderful parents had died before going to the police together and reporting their older only brother.

He was living a very respectable life, career with a family.

His wife and teenage children disowned him.
Thankfully he finally admitted it, sparing them a court case.

There is nothing innocent about his actions, absolutely nothing IMO.

Taking this very seriously and seeing if early intervention could help avert a disaster down the road.

Just wanted to give an update (and thank you again for all the replies).

A better week this week, last week it felt like the sky had caved in (sorry if that sounds dramatic..). It was very dark.

DD is doing really well. Sat down with all my girls at the weekend and watched the NSPCC PANTS video and looked at the book. DD's school continues to be very good and they're supporting her if she needs it.

SS headteacher and safeguarding lead have been informed at his school and they're monitoring him. He already gets ELSA so they're also working with him through that. They know all the details.

He's not coming here again though, I'm not moving on that. And no contact at all
with DD or any of my girls. I didn't tell the older girls the whole story at the weekend as I know it would make them angry and upset as they're so protective of their little sister (I'll probably tell them when they're older if they ask), but I did say SS wasn't coming any more. They're actually very happy with that - they don't like him due to a number of behaviours he displays ( I wasn't aware they felt that strongly..)

We're getting there.

Thanks for the update OP. You are doing brilliantly, your girls have a great mum.