SS being inappropriate with DD *trigger warning**

[Tryingoworkitout79]

I don't know what to think. My youngest DD, 5, was behaving oddly last night, trying to look in my pants, which is strange for her as she's quite uninhibited and comfortable with her body and mine (and used to them). Talking to her, it seems that SS, nearly 8, asked to see her 'privates/bits' over the weekend, she said no, she didn't want to and he moved her shorts to one side so he could see, saying that he wanted to. This apparently happened in the kitchen when I'd gone upstairs to get something. WTH!

DP rang his mum (as he's back with her now) and gently asked if she could ask him about it (arguably we should have waited till next week when he's with us, but though it was a good idea to let her know) and she's hit the roof telling us we're sexualising young innocent children!!

Yes, I'm utterly furious and feel a whole wide range of strong emotions that SS did that to DD when she said no.

But I'm not for a second suggesting that at their age it's sexual.

What the hell kind of message does that send DD, at this young age, that saying 'no' to someone seeing or touching your body carries no goddamn weight?!!! Jesus.

I would be concerned about this behaviour. He did it when no adults were around, so knows it's not acceptable.

I would be worried too. Sometimes it's just curiosity, bit I would certainly be concerned about the older males your ss is in contact with. This is a safeguarding issue for your ss, as well as your dd.

Tricky.
If Mum doesn't want to talk to him, have a look at the NSPCC website. I think they have some age appropriate material - called PANTS
Your DP needs to have a conversation with his son and you with your DD.
There may be an element of curiosity but they both need to understand boundaries and consent quickly.
I'd also be asking if he's been exposed to anything a bit age inappropriate maybe at school from a friend?
Keep a close eye on them both and discreetly keep them apart or with an adult present for now.

I'd find some good resources (books/NSPCC videos) to start educating your daughter and to reinforce that she has the right to say no and that she can tell you absolutely anything.

I have specifically told DD that if anyone ever tells her to keep something a secret from me that is a sign that something is iffy and that she should tell a trusted adult (she can tell Grandma if she prefers for example).

For now, you need to not leave your DD unattended with your SS however impractical that is. It's too important.

It wouldn't be so problematic if you were going to have his mum's understanding of why this needs dealing with firmly.

Two separate issues. Your DS is on the older side of this behavior I would have thought so I would want to know what if anything instigated it.

I would check with the school to see if they have been doing any child protection material. If not then your DH needs to follow up it could be simple curiosity, developmental delayed inappropriate behavior (covid) or he has been exposed to inappropriate content.

Then your DH can engage with NSpcc on resources on consent, appropriate behavior - the pants rule.

I would reinforce the openness you have secured with your DD, in a horrible situation.
Reinforce the openness and aspects of consent. But personally I wouldn't leave them unsupervised and that is probably a me thing as opposed what is required.

Regardless of what's causing it, he'd be getting harsh words when he got back telling him how unacceptable this was and he would not be allowed alone with her.

Thank you so much for your replies.

They're all exactly along the lines I was thinking. I'm not leaving them alone together, no way.

Apparently school have started doing some younger age Sex Ed (don't know what it's called now) this term. So DP has emailed the school to see if the first session has happened and is going to talk to his teacher. Seems to be a bit of a coincidence. Year 2/3 seems very young! And SS is I'd say very emotionally immature for his age (my DD displays more empathy and maturity sometimes, but I know boys and girls develop differently).

I worry because SS has displayed behaviour including frequent lying (emails from the teacher to say this), manipulative behaviour and he tantrums a lot. He's also very, very charming with adults. I'm not demonising him, but I was already a bit..I don't know if wary is the right word..or 'aware' that something felt a bit off sometimes. He goes to ELSA at school.

I don't want him in the house as I don't think he's a good influence on DD, but perhaps that's just a reaction to what happened..

Thank you for all the suggestions regarding NSPCC, books and PANTS, that's really helpful

Are your Internet settings tight? I'd be concerned about him watching inappropriate content. There's been a few posts over the years where children have used the iPad after their fathers and found porn.

What's the family set up, OP? Do you have joint children with your DP, is that who DD's dad is? That will effect how possible it is for you to separate them.

I would not want him in the house either, OP.

Will check with DP about SS's tablet and internet settings.

We don't have DC together, we've been together since DD was 3 and SS was 6. SS is with us EOW and sometimes in the week. SS has found the set up challenging, which is totally understandable, and we've been trying to work with him and help him work through his emotions.

Thank you Shropshirewitch I don't feel great for feeling like that, but I can't help it. DD has speech delay and though she is quite confident, it feels like she's even more vulnerable because of that

In that case I don't think it's off the table to consider DP having him elsewhere or, if your DD sees her dad, aligning weekends so they aren't at the same time.

I agree. Last night we talked about DP getting a place or being elsewhere with SS. It doesn't have to affect their relationship, but I do need to keep my DD safe

Apparently school have started doing some younger age Sex Ed (don't know what it's called now) this term. So DP has emailed the school to see if the first session has happened and is going to talk to his teacher. Seems to be a bit of a coincidence. Year 2/3 seems very young

If your ss is nearly 8, he’ll be year 3, year 4 next year? Mine are much older so I’m out of touch, but ‘age appropriate’ Sex Ed at this stage wouldn’t surprise me (probably earlier these days).

True Watcher, but if this happened following a one of the sessions at school, clearly something is going wrong somewhere...
I think we'll know more later when his teacher replies

I worry because SS has displayed behaviour including frequent lying (emails from the teacher to say this), manipulative behaviour and he tantrums a lot. He's also very, very charming with adults. I'm not demonising him, but I was already a bit..I don't know if wary is the right word..or 'aware' that something felt a bit off sometimes.

I could have written this about DSS at a similar age. But mumsnet being anti step mum just told me I clearly just hated him. But like you I knew something wasn't right. In our case it turns out there was domestic abuse atums house the full extent of which has only come to light in the last year ( he's now 11).

Listen to your gut and work with your partner to get to the bottom of it. Mums response would worry me.

Are you close to your family? Could you and your daughter go to visit your parents when your SS visits, or vice versa could your partner take his son to visit grandparents?

I would be considering very seriously asking dp to move out. You can not monitor the safety of your child in their own home 247 and you can’t keep her safe when ss is there.

Your child is likely to feel violated and afraid now. Do you know if this was the first time? Have you checked?

Dp either needs to see his child outside of your home and he no longer stays over under and circumstances .

His mother is being completely unreasonable, of course this is a safe guarding issue.

It could be reported to SS op. Just warning you now. Your poor dd.

Sorry I focused on SS here but yes your priority should be protecting your daughter on which you have already received excellent advice

Meaning social services may be alerted by the school as procedure.

I think it is more worrying that he insisted on uncovering anyway. At the age of 8 he will know this is wrong. Something is seriously amiss with this, don’t allow others to minimise, your dd needs your protection.

It sounds like you’re reacting exactly right.

My two boys used to bathe together until I noticed they were being a little weird in the bath. Nothing terrible, but sort of laying on each other whilst being silly and it was enough to say ‘no more of that’. Didn’t involve any shame. No one felt bad. But I was astute enough to recognise it was heading down an inappropriate road and I was able to head it off at the pass.

In my own experience this kind of childhood experimentation can lead to bad places if left unfettered. It’s one of the reasons I wouldn’t let my kids wander off to the den at bottom of a park with mixed aged children. with no one overseeing play. Yes it might be fine. Equally it might not be. I’d rather be close by.

Could your Dh take SS to stay in a Premier Inn overnight and out somewhere during the day on his weekend? Your DD needs to feel safe in her own home. If SS is there she won't. If he's not around she might forget over time but if he's there EOW she won't forget. He needs to keep away from the house for a while. I hope your DH understands how bad this is for your DD.

It could be curiosity following Sex ed in school or it could be something more sinister. The fact that he asked could be explained by natural curiosity but I think the fact that he ignored her saying no and in fact moved her clothing to then take a look very concerning.

Is it possible he could have accessed porn, does he have a smartphone and are child safe settings enabled?

Your DP would be within his rights to contact his school to ask if they have been covering this in school and if so requesting a bit more info about lessons and take it from there. He can ask if they are teaching about consent.

I would suggest you also speak to your dd’s school as she could make a disclosure and this could prompt a safeguarding incident. Also you could also find out what they teach in PSE about bodily autonomy, consent, touching etc.

Also look up NSPCC pants guidance for your dd.

I would also be extremely concerned that the next stage will be touching etc, he is obviously taking an interest in her.

Those that minimise this as kids play are clearly not child survivors of abuse.

This would be a total red line for me.