CMS

[gonnabeyou]

My husband and I are planning a move that takes us quite a distance from his children from his previous marriage, he has an 8yo and an 11yo.
The distance to travel back to collect them with toll costs and fuel works out as £200 per trip. Ie there and back twice.
He pays CMS just now on the basis that he has them overnight one night a fortnight (he has them way more but just not overnight) he pays his ex about £500 per week, this was worked out between them and never done through courts.
My husband is very keen for the move but I just don't think it's financially possible if he wants to carry on seeing them regularly.
If he wants to see them once a month that's an extra 5 grand a year! On top of the 6 he already pays. Exw doesn't do any pick up and drop offs at the moment.
My question, which I'm sure will be unpopular is, can he drop CMS because of the extra costs? If so is there a formula to work out how much less he'd pay to take into account the traveling costs, I'm sure they don't want to go through courts to work this out but equally I think CMS will have to drop if he wants to see them, we are not well off financially.
Please no nasty messages about how we should stay put if we care, it's been a hard decision for various reasons

But he’s not going to be providing for them financially at a hit to the emotional support. He’s not going to be proving at all.

OP started this thread on the basis that moving will involve travel costs to see his children so she wants to cut the financial support provided to the Mum.

But he actually can't do your first option @moonspiral: provide financially and not be able to provide emotional support. He wants to cut CMS AND have the child's mother pay for travel?

Except for extenuating circumstances, such as having to move for caring responsibilities, I'd prefer he just fuck off if it was me, wouldn't want his money and certainly wouldn't be driving to facilitate his relationship with DC

Actually @amiold I completely disagree that there needs to be give and take when it comes to children. Children are more important than anything and BOTH parents have an equal responsibility to provide and care for their children. When you're separated, that should be 50/50 and absolutely no less.

She does without the £500 because there is no £500 to be given

You mean his children can do without it. They can choose to just stop needing to eat or wear clothes or have a decent home.

There would be £500 to be given if this man would take a regular job and put his kids first.

To be fair Meggy, OP hasn't said he wants to cut CM. That's her thinking

How do you feel about the move OP? I have to say I don't agree with you trying to find a way for him to wriggle out of his CMS payments, but if he's moving for a job that isn't even secure do you at least have something solid lined up that makes the move worthwhile?

If not then you should probably sit down with him and go through the costs properly together so he can see exactly what the situation is, and then he may need to reassess the move. It may be he is desperate for this job because he sees it as being able to stop relying on his mum but if it doesn't actually pan out that way in real life then he would be much better staying where he is so he can still contribute to the care of his kids while looking for better employment.

So do you agree with 50/50 contact or just 50/50 financially?

Very true @excelledyourself - at least OP has recognised that this move is unaffordable.

@hourbyhour101 it's ok, I am a prick on the Internet 😁 It just bothers me so much when men opt out like this and I wondered why you were quick to judge posters who were acknowledging that this 'father' is shit. I apologise because I need to appreciate that people have different opinions. I won't apologise for calling this guy a useless fucker though and this isn't aimed at you, but we really do expect nothing from non resident fathers and they still manage to let their children down!

I can't speak for the maintenance side of things but I know from experience that the court would expect the person who moved away to do the travelling and pay the costs of that travel.

I agree with both @amiold, I don't receive CMS, never have. But we try to keep things 50/50 in terms of care and bills. It's probably more 60/40 tbh but I don't split hairs.

If a parent can't fulfill their obligation of 50% care for their children, then they should compensate the other parent appropriately for additional food, pocket money, utility bills, childcare, even life admin etc.

Since we’re doing ‘maths is mathing’, if it’s £200 a time, even assuming four passes through the country’s most expensive toll per trip in a very fuel inefficient car, it’s around 220 miles he’s proposing to move for a job without a guaranteed stable income. So most likely more than that in reality. That maths adds up to me to a man keen to get pretty fucking far away from the lives he presumably had an enthusiastic hand in creating.

Some non resident fathers let their children down not all sorry. Though I suspect the majority of the good ones have a wife/partner in the background sorting it all.

It's that or nothing. The £500 is not an option. Not unless he gets a job that allows it. He can't continue to get someone else to pay for his kids.

I mean again. If dad dies mum can't say your not allowed to die, you need to pay me maintenance.

If dad gets sick and he can't work, mum can't say er no out of hospital you lazy get about. You have to give me maintenance.

She's not his boss. It's not a pay or else you can't see the kids.

You can't get blood from a stone.
And it turns out this stone has been paying the usual amount despite having 0 income. That's not nothing. Borrowing off his mum isn't great but better than the kids missing out and he clearly recognises this.

Rational people will say ok if that's the only option we will work a plan (no one has to jump for joy about it) , maybe dad can have the kids more to elevate the burden if he can't contribute for the kids financially atm. That's a solution.

Maintenance and contact are separate for a reason as kids aren't pay per view.

Shit happens and if you don't get that, then your either naive or just stubbornly ignorant of life or just v or privileged.

As I said this isn't a guy who's trying to get out of paying for his kids. He's trying and although it's not Brillant. Life happens and you can have empathy for mum and also have some empathy for a dad who has tried and is trying.

Couldn't agree more. How often do we see men swan off, without a care in the world, leaving Mum literally holding the baby. And feeding, clothing, housing, nurturing and paying for the baby?

But it's fine - because women are better at this kind of thing and we'll get a Pat on the back and remarks of admiration because we're such hardworking single Mums 🙄 What a load of arse and we should expect and demand more for our children

Yes absolutely but op has said mum wouldn't allow more overnights to allow for a routine she wants them to have. It can't be he isn't allowed to have them so has to pay her money can it. I don't agree he should deduct £200 when he's earning but if he isn't earning I struggle to see where he's getting £500 from and just because she won't "allow" him to drop it, doesn't mean he has to give her money he doesn't have

I don’t think this sounds like right job, but appreciate that he may not have a lot of choice, and is probably getting worried if it’s been a couple of months since he has been working.

Having said that, if they were together and he lost his job, there would be less money coming into the house and therefore to spend on the children, so I think that a decrease in lifestyle is a normal side effect of a parent losing a job!

You don’t mention whether this is a long term plan, but I would worry that when they get to secondary school age that they won’t want to be taken away from their area at weekends, I’ve seen this happen before. He might struggle to keep the relationship that he wants with them if he moves.

Exactly this. Mum/Dad can't just expect each others lives to stay constant. Mum might get injured and need Dad to take the kids full time etc. Things change.

But he's not dead or sick @hourbyhour101??? He's literally just making a shit decision that will effect his children?

And trust me, I'm definitely not privileged! 😅I've just worked my ass off for my DC and put them first in all of my decisions

Yes exactly if they were together and he lost his job it would be the same stress financially

He's emotionally blackmailing his mum by the sounds of it. Coz he won't go to CMS.

As I said in my second post I don't mind tbh. I'm sure plenty of people have thought the same about me tbh

I just really get knarky about people making comments at op for her DP. Fry him alive as far as I'm concerned - I get the rage I really do

It's not bloody Brillant, but I have to say I don't think OPs DP is in the same category as dads who game the system on self employed and pay 0 when swanning around in designer gear. Those people are needing a good kick.

That I would hope that if the situation was reversed 😵‍💫 my ex wouldn't be a total bellend and try to work with me if I was trying. He probably would even if he's been a prat on many occasion.

@moonspiral But they're not together??? Why should Mum pay for his decisions or circumstances when they're not even together? He needs to find SUITABLE employment. This should not be on Mum.

So he wants to move away get out of parenting his dc and use the maintenence to cover travel costs. What a prince among men. Are you proud of him? Its shocking this is socially acceptable, yet if a mother did this she would be cased worse than shit. Just grim.