DS is refusing to come back after being told off

[Whatodonow]

I've name changed for this post as I got an absolute pile on when I spoke about the incident on the relationships board last week and I don't want any of those posters to follow me over here. Some of you will recall the discussion.

So in short DS (10) was told off by OH last week as he grabbed DS (4) and went to punch him in the head/face.

There wasn't really any consequences for it (I'm pointing that out so people know he isn't rebelling against an unfair punishment or anything like that) but OH did raise his voice at him (shouted don't you dare hit him) when he saw it happening and told him in no uncertain terms that he can't hit smaller disabled children, or anyone actually, that it was dangerous etc.

Fast forward to this weekend and DS is refusing to come back, his mum is saying she won't force him to come if he doesn't want to.

OH suggested he take him (DSS) out just the two of them if DSS doesn't want to be around DS or feels awkward coming here after the incident, DS is adamant he doesn't want to see him at all.

So WWYD in this situation? Should he be respecting DSS wishes? Do you think he should apologise for telling DSS off? I don't. All the children are treat the same and will be told off if they do something dangerous/naughty.

At a bit of loss now.

DSS is sulking, he is in a position of power and he is using it.

That's a good point. It's possible.

I remember the thread and I thought you were overreacting so I kinda of think you have got what you wished for. If your DSS was my DS I would not want him to visit your house neither.

I’m imagining what dss was feeling.
Probably along the line of:

‘my sister was about to be hurt by a thrown toy and I jumped up to protect her by thumping the thrower to stop him. But then dad told ME off. It’s not fair. I’m told to protect her but now I’m in trouble. I’m never speaking to dad again. He loves that boy more than he loves my sister and me. And mums having yet another baby. Nobody loves or wants me.

Hes probably still hurt and angry.

If he doesn’t want to stay the mum should allow the dad to speak to his son. That keeps communication open. By phone or in a 15min stroll to the chip shop or park or something together. Returning him to his mother after.

And during that time have a general catch up chat about school and football etc. And something thrown in (if not then another time soon) about ‘how are you feeling about your mum having a baby’. ‘You know I’m proud of you for looking after your sister but hitting your step brother is just a step too far. BUT only if it needs to be brought up again. ‘I love you and I’m always here if you need someone to talk to’ type stuff. Reassuring.

I suggest developing more tolerance and a thicker skin if you're going to get through parenting never mind step parenting.

You come across as rude and stubborn and if we can see that I'm sure your dss can too

You can be protective without punching a small child. You can stop a small child without punching them. I've never known a 10 year old to do something like that. It's not okay and not justified.

girlmom21 · Today 11:29

Not that you can condone his behaviour of course.

Actually - I can understand what's happening.

Mom and dad have both moved on and have whole new families. DSS feels like it's only him and DSD being left behind - because they're splitting their time and not really fully a part of either family. So, he feels like they have to have each other's backs as nobody else will, hence why he's so protective of his sister.

Well put, girlmom.

Also, meltdowns are difficult for adults to know how to deal with, let alone a child. DSS’s behaviour to the 4 year old was wrong, but if your DH sounded very cross with DSS your DH was wrong too. He needed to simply intervene and explain what to do.

Has anyone apologised to DSS for getting very cross instead of explaining?

PhillySub · Today 13:29
DSS is sulking, he is in a position of power and he is using it.

He has very little power indeed! How can you say this?

Numbskull comment. He is feeling powerLESS.

I think just leave it and see if he wants to come over next time. Tell him you still love him and dont make him feel like hes the "bad" one, say he made a mistake but you still love him.

Fwiw if i was either parent i would want to protect the 10 year old from being the sort of person who punches people and help him manage his feelings. Male violence doesnt come from nowhere, your DH was emotionally abusive to you - he's hurting his son by not modelling calm behaviour, maybe therapy can help you all?
Fwiw i have a boy and girl and i am extra careful to teach my boy to not use violence/be physical as much for his own protection as anyone else's.

OP
This thread is about moving on from what happened and DSS not wanting to see his dad. If you want to re hash the old one go and do it on there.

But this thread is about DSS, and so the original occurrences mentioned in the other thread are absolutely part of understanding how he is reacting now.

Based purely on what you have shared here, I don't understand how a 10yo thinks it is OK to punch a 4yo in any circumstances. They got told off, rightly so. And that was it. There were no other punishment or consequences, so staying away and refusing to apologise is OTT.

Crack on with your weekend plans. DH could go and see DSS for a chat if he wants to move things on. But him apologising again to DSS and offering treats is odd and sends the message that his behaviour was OK.

If your DH is worried about the bigger picture of change and unhappiness with DSS then of course address that. But it doesn't excuse this incident.

my sister was about to be hurt by a thrown toy and I jumped up to protect her by thumping the thrower to stop him. But then dad told ME off. It’s not fair.

This is a really strange and unacceptable thing for him to think. A 10 year old shouldn't get to that age thinking people would condone them punching preschoolers. Would we expect that sort of reaction at soft play at things being thrown by toddlers and hitting older children? I seriously doubt it, it should be in built in older children that you do not hit small children, like you might potentially scrap with children close to your own age. This is a really basic lesson, I'm baffled by the amount of people that think it's ok for ten year old's to reach that age and still not be aware of that.

OK, trying to answer the question you actually asked. I can see that he is getting to an age where if he says he doesn't want to see his dad his voice will be listened to. So its a balancing act really - Disney dadding won't help, but the longer he waits before seeing his Dad again the harder it will be for him to back down and start visiting again.
I'd probably give him space for a week or so, then try to get him to see his dad, just the 2 of them, to talk it through. Getting to the bottom of how DSS feels about his life in both houses at the moment would be massively helpful.

Rude and stubborn?! The op has taken some serious flack on both threads, and tbh I don’t think a lot of what people have said is justified. I think anyone would start to get defensive when attacked and there’s been more posters being rude on here than op has been.

I thought it was just the step parenting board but I saw some vile comments on her relationships board thread. MN is full of bullies imo. Thankfully she’s had some constructive comments from people who seem decent.

I think he's probably embarrassed about his behaviour.
Get dh to text him again, saying how much he'll be missed if he chooses not to come on the trip.
And tbh I'd send him a text too, saying that you're hoping he'll join you all.

I'd say this is a bit more than a sulk. All behaviour is communication, personally, I'm more an advocate of trying to address the underlying cause than to impose consequences. I grew up with 3 brothers - with a 7 year age gap between eldest brother and younger brother. There was fighting, lots of it. Siblings fight. I recall one incident, pretty similar actually where my older brother not only went to hit the youngest one [I think he'd pressed a button during a video game resulting in older brother losing....] but did hit him. I don't recall where, but I do recall a lot of screaming. Older brother was punished [video game removed] and sulked for england. He wouldn't come to church or the table for dinner - both mega red lines in our home. He eventually got over himself - my parents totally ignored the sulking and just carried on around him. Now my older brother is not a violent lout - he was a 10 year old who lost it and then felt deeply ashamed of himself because he knew what he had done was terrible. Incidentally, we had had a lot of disruption in our family and Dad was never home.. things were ''tense'' to say the least. It all feeds in.. As it happens he was a fabulous big brother to all of us.. we're all very close and even now younger brothers still look to him.

A 10 year old went to hit a 4 year old, there's no question that is wrong and your DP was absolutely right to tell him off severely. He's sulking (pretty typical reaction at that age if you ask me). That said, his Mum is pregnant. His Dad had another child not long ago. This is an awful lot for a 10 year old to cope with. He's likely feeling very vulnerable at the moment and displaced. I suspect he feels rejected and ashamed of himself and lacks the ability to express it. He may be sitting there thinking everyone hates him. The sulk is him withdrawing.

I'd say let him stew on it, if he doesn't want to come for contact fine - but make it clear the door is open for him to come. If he doesn't, don't make a big deal about it - less reaction the better. When he's ready to come back to the fold, welcome him. He's a kid and he lost it, being met with compassion and understanding is what leads to self-awareness and realization in children. Punishments do not.

I agree with this. DSS is struggling massively.

(And yes I remember your last thread).

imo , get dh to pick both children up, take them both out for a hour. Tell ds he is loved and wanted at home, the behaviour was unacceptable but dad is sure ds understands this and people make mistakes. Family means that mistakes are forgiven and we all move on. Don’t let it fester. Take home to mums, and his sister back to you, but tell him if he wants to come tomorrow you’ll get him. He’s embarrassed, give him space bit not too much. Your dh needs to have a talk with ex, shit happens in families it doesn’t mean you give up and mum shouldn’t be encouraging him dss to disengage at first time of issues but to talk/ work through.

I completely disagree, it is perfectly understandable in the context of this child's life, age and stage. He's protecting his sister in his simple way of looking at it. It may be flawed logic in adult terms, but to him they are alone in this. Everyone else has their ''new family''.

There is a world of difference between condoning behaviour and supporting a child who is evidently struggling. Self regulation is something developed, over time, and each child develops at a different rate depending on their life experience. Children who take longer should not be vilified.

My daughter used to hit me when she was 3-5 years old. Her Father and I were divorcing, she had acquired a new step family & a new sibling. I'm talking punching, kicking, slapping, spitting in my face. Rather than label her as some horrific delinquent and chastise myself for having ''failed'' as a mother to teach my child basic ''lessons'' as you call them, I preferred to understand where this behaviour was coming from. She couldn't cope with what was going on her life. It was too much. Did I address the lashing out? of course but addressing the emotional side was more important. She needed to know she was not a bad person for not coping. Don't underestimate how difficult these situations are for children.

I haven't underestimated anything. I was the one who highlighted the possibility of him struggling with the enormity of mum having a new partner and baby on the way. I was the one who suggested OH takes DSS out somewhere just the two of them so they can talk and he can delve into the deeper issues at play here.

It's possible to be upset with a behaviour whilst simultaneously caring about the child displaying it. I'm not sure why I've taken such a battering to be honest well I do, it's mumsnets typical attitude to step parents as evidenced by the 100's of threads where we're piled onto because I've been nothing but kind to DSS in the (yes limited time frame) aftermath of it all happening.

Dispite the incident he still felt comfortable enough to come to me for a hug as he left. That's not really in keeping with the wicked witch I've been painted as, is it?

As per the last thread thank you to the genuine and helpful contributers.

Basically OP, stand down. Let the boy breathe a little and steady his feet. Hes coming to the age of SAT'S and big school too. If he wants to chill in his bedroom and decompress instead of having emotional heart to hearts with daddy then let him. Its up to DH to manage his own hurt feelings at his son saying no. It will happen more often soon enough, its a part of growing up.

That's fair. You have a point. Thank you.

@Pinkyxx There's a big difference between a 3-5 year old being violent with adults, and a 10 year old being violent with a much younger child, fresh out of toddlerhood.

Like I said, I've never witnessed a 10 year old being allowed to be violent with such small children in the same way they might scrap with children of relatively equitable size, maybe 6 and above. 10 year old's might still be developing but "Don't fight with toddlers when you're ten" is a very basic lesson I would expect them to already know by that age. That isn't "adult logic", it's age appropriate knowledge by 10.

As I said in the last thread DSS feel like DS gets away with violent meltdowns and is allowed to throw stuff at him and his sister seemingly without consequence. (Obviously you know that DS needs different parenting but you need to see this from a 10 year olds point of view - not your extremely protective one). You don't need to apologise to DSS that's not going to chance anything - you need to look at putting things in place to prevent it getting to this boiling point for both DS and DSS.

You need to make sure an adult is always there watching to prevent things from escalating to this point, not have one shopping and one in the kitchen. Someone needs to be with the kids keeping an eye on them. You have a 'challenging' 4 year old and when he's around other children he needs to be watched - that's just good parenting and I say that as a parent of a ds with ASD. You need to show DSS that his and his sisters safety is important and do something like remove the toys that have been thrown from DS. This may not mean much to DS but in this case it would be for the sake of DSS to see that there are consequences and that DS can't just seemingly do whatever he likes with no consequences.

You two as parents could cause a lot of damage here IMO if you're not careful and try to look at this from other points of view. I don't think DSS is in some kind of manipulative power play, he just doesn't want to feel like he is treated differently from DS which he very much is because DS is autistic. That might be completely understandable to an adult - to a 10 year old it feels desperately unfair and as though the 'new child' is favoured. He now also has the possibility of the same thing happening with his mum. You have to take a step back from only being able to think of DS and that he was nearly hit and look at the bigger picture here.